anyone have voltage problems with audio systems?
08-18-12, 07:14 PM
#16
THANK YOU! Capacitors only put a bandaid on an open wound! and cause more problems.
The CHEAPEST thing to do is to add second battery with isolator as mentioned, but that too only hides the symptoms. Yea the dimming will go away, but with all the probably cheap power from the amp, the rear battery is just gonna stay empty and system will still run off the alternator and destroy it. The PROPER t hing to do is get a larger alternator.
As already asked, what amp are you using? I ran just under 3000 watts of REAL power (JL Audio) and 2 compressors for air ride (equivalent to another 800watt amp) and NEVER had a dimming problem. But because of the design of a GOOD amp can practically power itself, it did no harm to the stock electrical system. I did a write up on "The Big Three" look for it, thats where you need to start, its costly, but helps a lot.
The CHEAPEST thing to do is to add second battery with isolator as mentioned, but that too only hides the symptoms. Yea the dimming will go away, but with all the probably cheap power from the amp, the rear battery is just gonna stay empty and system will still run off the alternator and destroy it. The PROPER t hing to do is get a larger alternator.
As already asked, what amp are you using? I ran just under 3000 watts of REAL power (JL Audio) and 2 compressors for air ride (equivalent to another 800watt amp) and NEVER had a dimming problem. But because of the design of a GOOD amp can practically power itself, it did no harm to the stock electrical system. I did a write up on "The Big Three" look for it, thats where you need to start, its costly, but helps a lot.
08-19-12, 01:53 AM
#18
i ask cus everyone on car audio forums says 2k off stock electrical should be done pretty easy. but i got h/o alt and a good sized battery and still drops hard. so i figured id ask people with my exact car to try and get to the bottom of it.
i dont really count on it to do anything, but none the less, its there. 2 farads
Sundown Audio. 1500 watts rms. (might be pulling a bit more)
and arc audio for highs.
and 4 gauge on the four channel.
i do have a cap. and it hasnt done **** til now. lol. before h/o alt and battery and after- hasnt really done ****.
What's your voltage dropping to? Iirc you've upgraded the wires under the hood so that shouldn't be the issue. I'm running more power than you with stock electrical, I've got hids so the headlights don't dim but I'll get some minor dimming of dash lights once in a while. When I've checked it my voltage drops to the 13 range under heavy load.
my voltage drops down as low as 11.8 at idle WITH after market high out put alternator.
yes ive read that hids prevent the dimming from being noticeable at the headlights. but regardless i get use dimming through out the inside of the car and the dimming is still incredicbly noticeable on all outter lights as well (tail lights. drls. etc)
when im running my car at higher rpm my votlage usually doesnt drop below 13 either. but at idle it does.
0 gauge is done! =)
i have 0 gauge under the hood also and i did it before high out put alternator and also didnt help out (which was the reason i had to get the h/o alt)
A capacitor can help stop the symptom, but is just adding more load to the in-car electrical system. A second battery just for the stereo charging through an isolator is the best way to do it. As the isolator removes the draw from the cars battery and electrical system, and gives an aux battery that is just for the amps. Amp no longer will kill your start battery when playing the stereo with the engine off, and no more issues with the amps stealing power from other components in the car..
you can run a second battery with out the isolator...as long as it the same battery.. i had 4 optima batteries for 8 years in my civic when i did sound compitions with the stock alternator.. I have 5 svr batteries in my GS for 4 years with the stock alternator..battery isolaters are used when you have different size or brands of batteries..
THANK YOU! Capacitors only put a bandaid on an open wound! and cause more problems.
The CHEAPEST thing to do is to add second battery with isolator as mentioned, but that too only hides the symptoms. Yea the dimming will go away, but with all the probably cheap power from the amp, the rear battery is just gonna stay empty and system will still run off the alternator and destroy it. The PROPER t hing to do is get a larger alternator.
As already asked, what amp are you using? I ran just under 3000 watts of REAL power (JL Audio) and 2 compressors for air ride (equivalent to another 800watt amp) and NEVER had a dimming problem. But because of the design of a GOOD amp can practically power itself, it did no harm to the stock electrical system. I did a write up on "The Big Three" look for it, thats where you need to start, its costly, but helps a lot.
The CHEAPEST thing to do is to add second battery with isolator as mentioned, but that too only hides the symptoms. Yea the dimming will go away, but with all the probably cheap power from the amp, the rear battery is just gonna stay empty and system will still run off the alternator and destroy it. The PROPER t hing to do is get a larger alternator.
As already asked, what amp are you using? I ran just under 3000 watts of REAL power (JL Audio) and 2 compressors for air ride (equivalent to another 800watt amp) and NEVER had a dimming problem. But because of the design of a GOOD amp can practically power itself, it did no harm to the stock electrical system. I did a write up on "The Big Three" look for it, thats where you need to start, its costly, but helps a lot.
Sundown 1500- ive heavily been thinking about switching to better quality amps. but everywhere on the forums ive read/been told that i should be able to make this amp power up just fine with out voltage drops if i got the right electrical. and i do have a big alt. so im trying to get to the bottom of it before i go out and drop more on more euipment. im thinking about trading my sundown 1500 for a jl hd 1200. but like i said- first i want to get to the botttom of my electrical. it pisses me off that i got a huge alt and good sized battery up front and im still getting issues. big three is also done btw. the first time i did it i noticed very little difference.
Absolutely, you can most defiantly run
multiple batteries without an isolator no problem, like you mention they should be of same specs and preferably the same age. Competitions are one thing with 5 batteries, I would recommend an isolator for a daily/street type car because they are cheap and will eliminate the possiblity of playing the stereo from killing the start battery and you can mix and match batteries at any time..
Either way an additional battery can greatly improve stereo performance, the op has an uprated alternator already, but otherwise other people should keep in mind adding either a battery or capacitor it's all still more load for the car to charge so alternator performance is always still important.
multiple batteries without an isolator no problem, like you mention they should be of same specs and preferably the same age. Competitions are one thing with 5 batteries, I would recommend an isolator for a daily/street type car because they are cheap and will eliminate the possiblity of playing the stereo from killing the start battery and you can mix and match batteries at any time..
Either way an additional battery can greatly improve stereo performance, the op has an uprated alternator already, but otherwise other people should keep in mind adding either a battery or capacitor it's all still more load for the car to charge so alternator performance is always still important.
first thread was on big 3 i belive. which i checked off and completed.
second was on battery- i also checked off and upgraded (twice) to the biggest battery i can fit under the hood.
and possibly the third thread was about alternator- which i also checked off and purchased. 270 amps (as mentioned multiple times)
AND i still have voltage drops happening. i had been doing research through car audio forums and everyone says 2k is a little bit of power to be having the issues i am. most people on car audio forums ran 2k (good quality and not so good quality stuff) off stock electrical with very few issues. most just had big three done. which is why ive decided to narrow it down to just our lexus' and find out if its maybe something with our cars that i havnt notcied/gotten to.
08-19-12, 02:16 PM
#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyGs3
you can run a second battery with out the isolator...as long as it the same battery.. i had 4 optima batteries for 8 years in my civic when i did sound compitions with the stock alternator.. I have 5 svr batteries in my GS for 4 years with the stock alternator..battery isolaters are used when you have different size or brands of batteries..
-------->ive never done more than one batteries, because ive always been under the impression that the alternator is the one supplying all the power when the car is on. so asuume a good powerful alt should be able to kee up with demand, no?
HA found it... the alt cant keep up.. it also sounds as if the voltage regulator in the alt. is bad..so is the voltage at or close to 14volts at idle with nothing on?? your alt. says it can put out 270 amps.BUT no where to put it.. with the sundown pulling about 300 amps and the car and other things pulling about 70 amps you have no other help.. yup sounds like you need another battery.. yah the alt can charge the battery but its being used up right away.. think about it we have multiple batteries with stock alt with no problems..
Originally Posted by krazyGs3
you can run a second battery with out the isolator...as long as it the same battery.. i had 4 optima batteries for 8 years in my civic when i did sound compitions with the stock alternator.. I have 5 svr batteries in my GS for 4 years with the stock alternator..battery isolaters are used when you have different size or brands of batteries..
-------->ive never done more than one batteries, because ive always been under the impression that the alternator is the one supplying all the power when the car is on. so asuume a good powerful alt should be able to kee up with demand, no?
HA found it... the alt cant keep up.. it also sounds as if the voltage regulator in the alt. is bad..so is the voltage at or close to 14volts at idle with nothing on?? your alt. says it can put out 270 amps.BUT no where to put it.. with the sundown pulling about 300 amps and the car and other things pulling about 70 amps you have no other help.. yup sounds like you need another battery.. yah the alt can charge the battery but its being used up right away.. think about it we have multiple batteries with stock alt with no problems..
08-19-12, 03:04 PM
#21
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Most HO alternators produce less voltage when at idle than stock. They only produce HO when running the vehicle at more than idle, so use caution on that. What does DC spec it at? How often are you sitting at idle and listening to the bottom drop out of the system? Since the system should have 270A available from the alternator when running, I would agree with adding a battery to the rear through an isolator. Yes, I'm well aware that batteries can be run without one, but it's not good practice if you're depending on the "main" battery to operate the vehicle, and these vehicles are VERY touchy about voltage.
I would run 0 ga from the alt to the isolator and connect both batteries from there. If you have space in the engine bay, you can mount it there to minimize the excess cable from needing to be purchased. Since you've already got wires from the trunk to the battery location, you would simply put the isolator in line with those connections and may not require any new wires be run. While you're setting it up, make sure you're getting proper voltage, keeping in mind that power flows from negative to positive.
Big Mack
I would run 0 ga from the alt to the isolator and connect both batteries from there. If you have space in the engine bay, you can mount it there to minimize the excess cable from needing to be purchased. Since you've already got wires from the trunk to the battery location, you would simply put the isolator in line with those connections and may not require any new wires be run. While you're setting it up, make sure you're getting proper voltage, keeping in mind that power flows from negative to positive.
Big Mack
08-19-12, 10:44 PM
#22
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyGs3
you can run a second battery with out the isolator...as long as it the same battery.. i had 4 optima batteries for 8 years in my civic when i did sound compitions with the stock alternator.. I have 5 svr batteries in my GS for 4 years with the stock alternator..battery isolaters are used when you have different size or brands of batteries..
-------->ive never done more than one batteries, because ive always been under the impression that the alternator is the one supplying all the power when the car is on. so asuume a good powerful alt should be able to kee up with demand, no?
HA found it... the alt cant keep up.. it also sounds as if the voltage regulator in the alt. is bad..so is the voltage at or close to 14volts at idle with nothing on?? your alt. says it can put out 270 amps.BUT no where to put it.. with the sundown pulling about 300 amps and the car and other things pulling about 70 amps you have no other help.. yup sounds like you need another battery.. yah the alt can charge the battery but its being used up right away.. think about it we have multiple batteries with stock alt with no problems..
Originally Posted by krazyGs3
you can run a second battery with out the isolator...as long as it the same battery.. i had 4 optima batteries for 8 years in my civic when i did sound compitions with the stock alternator.. I have 5 svr batteries in my GS for 4 years with the stock alternator..battery isolaters are used when you have different size or brands of batteries..
-------->ive never done more than one batteries, because ive always been under the impression that the alternator is the one supplying all the power when the car is on. so asuume a good powerful alt should be able to kee up with demand, no?
HA found it... the alt cant keep up.. it also sounds as if the voltage regulator in the alt. is bad..so is the voltage at or close to 14volts at idle with nothing on?? your alt. says it can put out 270 amps.BUT no where to put it.. with the sundown pulling about 300 amps and the car and other things pulling about 70 amps you have no other help.. yup sounds like you need another battery.. yah the alt can charge the battery but its being used up right away.. think about it we have multiple batteries with stock alt with no problems..
the alternator has warranty so ive beent hinking about sending it back. they told me theyd check it out. but im thinking i'll end up paying 50 bucks to ship it and theyre going to say everything is fine. because, honestly, even though its not putting out a lot of power at idle, its never failed to charge battery or keep up good voltage at high rpm. BUT according to DC its supposed to put out 180-200 amps at idle.
i wanted to try and confirm that its my alternator that cant keep up before i go and drop another 2 bills on an extra battery or spend anymore on electrical. ...but also, i dont think my amp is drawing 300 amps of current. thats a lot of current and if 300 amps from 1-2k was the case, then most people here (and pretty much any car audio user) would definitely be having voltage problems.
where are your grounds exactly?
i have two grounds under the hood to the battery. one runs from the battery to the engine chasis (near the alternator positive) and the other on the sheetmetal right in front of the battery (its a bolt on the side).
ground on my amp is in the trunk on the sheetmetal behind the carpet.
ive also tried powering the amp right at the battery since i figured the problem could be grounds or power wire being too long to the trunk. but i had the same result.
pics below:
amp grounds:
big 3/grounds under hood:
yellow is first ground connected to sheetmetal/firewall
the blue is the second ground connected to the tranny (i believe? ...there was a ground on here too. i picked up this idea from someone else here on club lexus. forgot who).
and the white is the third ground connected to the engine near the alternator positive. its where the stock ground to the battery goes.
Most HO alternators produce less voltage when at idle than stock. They only produce HO when running the vehicle at more than idle, so use caution on that. What does DC spec it at? How often are you sitting at idle and listening to the bottom drop out of the system? Since the system should have 270A available from the alternator when running, I would agree with adding a battery to the rear through an isolator. Yes, I'm well aware that batteries can be run without one, but it's not good practice if you're depending on the "main" battery to operate the vehicle, and these vehicles are VERY touchy about voltage.
I would run 0 ga from the alt to the isolator and connect both batteries from there. If you have space in the engine bay, you can mount it there to minimize the excess cable from needing to be purchased. Since you've already got wires from the trunk to the battery location, you would simply put the isolator in line with those connections and may not require any new wires be run. While you're setting it up, make sure you're getting proper voltage, keeping in mind that power flows from negative to positive.
Big Mack
I would run 0 ga from the alt to the isolator and connect both batteries from there. If you have space in the engine bay, you can mount it there to minimize the excess cable from needing to be purchased. Since you've already got wires from the trunk to the battery location, you would simply put the isolator in line with those connections and may not require any new wires be run. While you're setting it up, make sure you're getting proper voltage, keeping in mind that power flows from negative to positive.
Big Mack
keep in mind that this is only happening when im going full tilt. at low/moderate levels voltage is fine at all times. at idle with nothing running the voltage is usually resting at 14.5 at the lowest.and up to 15.1 volts.
thanks for the advice mack. im just trying to get to the bottom of this and make sure i know what the cause/solution for all this really is. i pretty much figure adding a battery in the back should help. but i want to KNOW why and how this is all happening and how the solution of adding an extra battery (or whatevery it may be) is solving the problem and also know that its the real solution that is really solving the problem and not just adding a temporary aid.
08-19-12, 10:50 PM
#23
im a little upset after today.
my friend has an ES. hes running a good amount of power, probably near 1500 watts rms, off an autozone alternator and a tiny old *** battery and NO big three.
i measured his voltage today... at idle, with system at full tilt, he never dropped below 12 volts.
i, on the other hand have every stock electrical upgrade (and sure my voltage is much higher than his) but at idle, even with all this equipment, mine cant keep up to his stock. lol WTF>
my friend has an ES. hes running a good amount of power, probably near 1500 watts rms, off an autozone alternator and a tiny old *** battery and NO big three.
i measured his voltage today... at idle, with system at full tilt, he never dropped below 12 volts.
i, on the other hand have every stock electrical upgrade (and sure my voltage is much higher than his) but at idle, even with all this equipment, mine cant keep up to his stock. lol WTF>
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