The 2GS, a future classic?
08-15-14, 08:44 PM
#92
Lexus Champion
Well I will admit that once all those crudely built oil burning, gasoline chugging muscle and pony cars of the 1960's and early 70's are relegated to museum collections... and their owners relegated to their own museums (just kidding), there could be a shift to Japanese cars.
The thing is that those old cars have a lot of character and each new generation wants them for that alone. Why does a 1965 Mustang fastback have so much character? Because it comes from an era and it has timeless lines. Or a 1969 Chevelle SS... and so on.
Even the BMW and Mercedes crowd admits that not many of their cars are going to make it to collector status. They were special, unique and beautiful... but not rare enough to collect.
On the other hand the Acura NSX could be a future classic even though it shamelessly borrowed its lines from Ferrari. It's rare because you don't see them coming and going and they just had the "it" factor.
The GS? Well the jury's out. BMW had already beat it by a year in 1997 with the E39 and Mercedes had already done the W124 a decade earlier. Those aren't going to be classics either, other than the M and AMG or "55" versions.
The thing is that those old cars have a lot of character and each new generation wants them for that alone. Why does a 1965 Mustang fastback have so much character? Because it comes from an era and it has timeless lines. Or a 1969 Chevelle SS... and so on.
Even the BMW and Mercedes crowd admits that not many of their cars are going to make it to collector status. They were special, unique and beautiful... but not rare enough to collect.
On the other hand the Acura NSX could be a future classic even though it shamelessly borrowed its lines from Ferrari. It's rare because you don't see them coming and going and they just had the "it" factor.
The GS? Well the jury's out. BMW had already beat it by a year in 1997 with the E39 and Mercedes had already done the W124 a decade earlier. Those aren't going to be classics either, other than the M and AMG or "55" versions.
08-15-14, 10:22 PM
#93
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not downing our Lexus cars, but I just don't think it will ever truly be a classic.
08-15-14, 11:15 PM
#94
Who decides what cars are "classic"? The people with money that are willing to pay a premium for a pristine condition car. Today's collectors might not love or hold Japanese/German cars in high regard but a lot of the collectors 30 years from now will be the people that loved Japanese and German cars when they were young. Have you seen Leno's '71 Datsun 510? I realize he's not your typical stuffy, old rich guy collector but I think more collectors are starting to appreciate Japanese cars outside of the Z's or Supras
08-16-14, 06:49 PM
#96
Lexus Champion
Who decides what cars are "classic"? The people with money that are willing to pay a premium for a pristine condition car. Today's collectors might not love or hold Japanese/German cars in high regard but a lot of the collectors 30 years from now will be the people that loved Japanese and German cars when they were young. Have you seen Leno's '71 Datsun 510? I realize he's not your typical stuffy, old rich guy collector but I think more collectors are starting to appreciate Japanese cars outside of the Z's or Supras
Yes Jay Leno is known for his automotive expertise and his penchant for oddball cars but he's hardly the barometer I'd use to gauge future collectibility of something.
I mean most of the folks here driving their GS's don't even know what's going to happen five years from now never mind 30 years from now. There's marraige, kids and a mortgage looming. I see many just moving on from the love affair into regular everyday cars or one of the German brands.
So why are the domestic pony cars and the exotics so collectible? Because they had one thing Lexus rarely engineered into its cars from the 90's. Character. Passion. Excitement.
When those rich ole stuffy guys were in their teens back in the 1960's the cars they're paying ridiculous prices for today, were widely available and dirt cheap. It's about capturing a special time and reliving memories. Who wants to relive the 90's? Not me.
Most of today's owners of the 2 GS bought second hand or were given their cars by dad.
When you're in your late teens and twenties, anything is possible and your car is the most special thing in the world, because you've only ever driven that car.
I guess I'm one of those stuffy yet un-stuffed guys who has driven a lot of cars. Believe me the GS is an nice quick car but it ain't no collectible or particularly full of character or passion.
Last edited by MattyG; 08-16-14 at 06:54 PM.
08-16-14, 10:29 PM
#97
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That 96 Impala that you are referring too is a classic and is very rare. That car was built a particular way in which you will likely not see again in cars. I never see them anymore. I hardly saw them when they were brand new other than videos and movies and I live in the LA county area. That Impala is a rare bird. Just this morning I already have seen 3 2GS's rolling around. I haven't seen a Supra in months. I haven't seen an Impala SS in about a year and I'm always out and about. To me it is a factor in naming a car a classic.
08-16-14, 10:56 PM
#98
#1 Have you ever seen the people that pay a million dollars plus for a collectible car? If they aren't rich men then what are they? Stuffy is a matter of opinion, so I'll let that one go.
#2 Again, people are willing to pay a premium to get back the cars they loved or couldn't have when they were young. Just because you personally didn't like the 80's or 90's or early 2000's, or didn't appreciate and love the cars from those years, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people out there that do.
#3 Lexus cars don't have character, passion or excitement??
Funny how this commercial addresses the very thing I was talking about. Stuffy, rich people and Lexus causing an uproar. You're free to think it was all just marketing hype. Name a better car in its class from '98. Outside of its class, name a better car from 1998 that isn't a Mustang Cobra, Camaro SS, Corvette, E36 M3, Supra or obviously Ferrari, Porsche, etc. The GS400 was ahead of its time in its car class. We won't even begin with how the LS400 rocked the luxury auto world.
Maybe in Canada they don't love Lexus like they do down here. Everywhere I go, I get compliments on my car. From the same people that love B-body Impalas, fox body mustangs, etc. Location has a lot to do with car culture.
#2 Again, people are willing to pay a premium to get back the cars they loved or couldn't have when they were young. Just because you personally didn't like the 80's or 90's or early 2000's, or didn't appreciate and love the cars from those years, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people out there that do.
#3 Lexus cars don't have character, passion or excitement??
Funny how this commercial addresses the very thing I was talking about. Stuffy, rich people and Lexus causing an uproar. You're free to think it was all just marketing hype. Name a better car in its class from '98. Outside of its class, name a better car from 1998 that isn't a Mustang Cobra, Camaro SS, Corvette, E36 M3, Supra or obviously Ferrari, Porsche, etc. The GS400 was ahead of its time in its car class. We won't even begin with how the LS400 rocked the luxury auto world.
Maybe in Canada they don't love Lexus like they do down here. Everywhere I go, I get compliments on my car. From the same people that love B-body Impalas, fox body mustangs, etc. Location has a lot to do with car culture.
Last edited by mccrimmon; 08-17-14 at 06:32 AM.
08-17-14, 08:52 PM
#99
Lexus Champion
#1 Have you ever seen the people that pay a million dollars plus for a collectible car? If they aren't rich men then what are they? Stuffy is a matter of opinion, so I'll let that one go.
#2 Again, people are willing to pay a premium to get back the cars they loved or couldn't have when they were young. Just because you personally didn't like the 80's or 90's or early 2000's, or didn't appreciate and love the cars from those years, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people out there that do.
#3 Lexus cars don't have character, passion or excitement??
Lexus GS400 Commercial (Something Wicked) - YouTube
Funny how this commercial addresses the very thing I was talking about. Stuffy, rich people and Lexus causing an uproar. You're free to think it was all just marketing hype. Name a better car in its class from '98. Outside of its class, name a better car from 1998 that isn't a Mustang Cobra, Camaro SS, Corvette, E36 M3, Supra or obviously Ferrari, Porsche, etc. The GS400 was ahead of its time in its car class. We won't even begin with how the LS400 rocked the luxury auto world.
Maybe in Canada they don't love Lexus like they do down here. Everywhere I go, I get compliments on my car. From the same people that love B-body Impalas, fox body mustangs, etc. Location has a lot to do with car culture.
#2 Again, people are willing to pay a premium to get back the cars they loved or couldn't have when they were young. Just because you personally didn't like the 80's or 90's or early 2000's, or didn't appreciate and love the cars from those years, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people out there that do.
#3 Lexus cars don't have character, passion or excitement??
Lexus GS400 Commercial (Something Wicked) - YouTube
Funny how this commercial addresses the very thing I was talking about. Stuffy, rich people and Lexus causing an uproar. You're free to think it was all just marketing hype. Name a better car in its class from '98. Outside of its class, name a better car from 1998 that isn't a Mustang Cobra, Camaro SS, Corvette, E36 M3, Supra or obviously Ferrari, Porsche, etc. The GS400 was ahead of its time in its car class. We won't even begin with how the LS400 rocked the luxury auto world.
Maybe in Canada they don't love Lexus like they do down here. Everywhere I go, I get compliments on my car. From the same people that love B-body Impalas, fox body mustangs, etc. Location has a lot to do with car culture.
But in the US the market only picks select Japanese cars as up and comers. The GS ain't gonna be on it. Not special enough.
Yes mccrimmon I too have seen outrageous prices in the news headlines about million dollar cars on the auction block. Those are rare limited production automobiles. You can't really be comparing the 2GS to a Ferrari or a Porsche now are you?
People "paid" a premium to own the 2GS. Are they willing to do it now or in the future? Not so sure. The 1960's were a unique age and the cars that came from that time were unique. The 80's and 90's? Not so much. Why is Mad Men such a hit? Why is CNN doing 60's retrospectives?
The baby boomer demographic is a massive wave and they for good or bad drove the market. Once they're done the cars they collected will still be around. That will have a ripple effect.
I'm afraid that a car commercial is hardly evidence of a special car. All car manufacturers engage in propaganda. Lexus is no different. Go and google bmw from back in the day.
Commercials about cereal tell you that you live in a beautiful house with a pretty wife and your kids and your dog adore you. Do you believe everything in those 30 secs?
And I'm sorry to say. Nobody ever compliments me on my car or gives it second look. It looks exactly like what it is and was... a 1990's Lexus. Right now that's ok with me. It still drives great and runs great.
08-18-14, 06:45 AM
#100
All valid opinions Matt but I have to disagree with a few.
I wasn't comparing a 2GS to a million dollar Toyota 2000gt. I was simply making the point that car collectors are rich, older men. You don't see a lot of middle class guys or young kids out at Barrett-Jackson.
Mad Men is popular and CNN does 60's retrospectives for people who were kids during those years aka people that are now in their 50's and 60's. It's special to them because they experienced it. When the kids from the 80's and 90's reach their 50's and 60's, they too will be nostalgic for things from their childhood. BTW they do "retrospectives" on the 80's all the time and 80's music is still pretty popular. Again, might just be an American thing cuz maybe the 80's weren't so great in Canada? USA did have the better hockey team in the 80's right???
The car commercial DID excite a lot of people when it first debuted, regardless of whether it excited you or was just a marketing ploy. It was pretty effective and the GS400 was exciting and still is for a lot of people.
I'm sorry that no one ever compliments your car. Is it bone stock? Again, I think location has a lot to do with that. Move to the States bro!
I wasn't comparing a 2GS to a million dollar Toyota 2000gt. I was simply making the point that car collectors are rich, older men. You don't see a lot of middle class guys or young kids out at Barrett-Jackson.
Mad Men is popular and CNN does 60's retrospectives for people who were kids during those years aka people that are now in their 50's and 60's. It's special to them because they experienced it. When the kids from the 80's and 90's reach their 50's and 60's, they too will be nostalgic for things from their childhood. BTW they do "retrospectives" on the 80's all the time and 80's music is still pretty popular. Again, might just be an American thing cuz maybe the 80's weren't so great in Canada? USA did have the better hockey team in the 80's right???
The car commercial DID excite a lot of people when it first debuted, regardless of whether it excited you or was just a marketing ploy. It was pretty effective and the GS400 was exciting and still is for a lot of people.
I'm sorry that no one ever compliments your car. Is it bone stock? Again, I think location has a lot to do with that. Move to the States bro!
08-18-14, 07:51 AM
#101
True in Canada Lexus is not particularly special. Most here seem to buy the German brands. Not sure why.
And I'm sorry to say. Nobody ever compliments me on my car or gives it second look. It looks exactly like what it is and was... a 1990's Lexus. Right now that's ok with me. It still drives great and runs great.
And I'm sorry to say. Nobody ever compliments me on my car or gives it second look. It looks exactly like what it is and was... a 1990's Lexus. Right now that's ok with me. It still drives great and runs great.
My friend's 99% stock aristo turns a ton of heads too
Honestly it makes me feel pity for my other car... besides AE86 / MR2 people, only stranger who's ever commented on my SR5 coupe in 5 years was an enthusiastic homeless dude who loved it, didn't ask for change or anything either, I guess he was just a rolla fanboy
And yeah I love those 60s cars, I don't know much about them but I would kill for a nice hardtop Riviera or Saratoga with some kind of built V8
Last edited by Ava92; 08-18-14 at 07:55 AM.
08-18-14, 08:57 AM
#102
Yea the 400 definitely has more edge than the 430. When the 400 dropped it was Lexus only sports sedan. Also keep in mind that Lexus directed their attention solely towards BMW. Given BMW's enthusiast rich tradition, Lexus needed the car to be at a similar level. I'm assuming why the "feel" of the 400 is snappier and appears to have more of a sporty feel to the ride. I agree with 1QWKGS, that 400 is arguably one of if not the best car Lexus has ever built. It put them (and Japan) on the luxury sport sedan scene, officially. I'm sure Lexus can even attest to that statement and I'm certain they will. After all, the 2GS groundwork was laid in 1994!!! Four years before it was introduced to the market. Lexus knew that this was going to be a special vehicle.
And the name...Aristo. In Greek it means perfection and excellence. To Lexus, the 2GS is in their hall of fame.
And the name...Aristo. In Greek it means perfection and excellence. To Lexus, the 2GS is in their hall of fame.
08-18-14, 11:13 AM
#103
Lexus Test Driver
Listen my ppl NUMBERS DON'T LIE. Honda is the most SOLD CAR ON PLANET EARTH. On all continents. So that let's you know JUST HOW SUPERIOR Japanese ppl are in making RELIABLE AND SOLID vehicles. Whether it's a 4 cylinder or a V-10 LFA ☺☺☺. German cars have been PROVEN to be more hot trash then quality. Expensive and problem filled! Compare cars in they're respective classes. A Ferrari and a LFA. A GS430 with a SS Impala. A LS430 with a 5 or 7 series. Compare reviews and Lexus wins every time. Forget car cultures and ever you live on this planet. I want a tough reliable solid built luxury car. GS430 is the truth! If you haven't figured out by now Lexus is one of highest quality cars on earth REASONABLY PRICED then your lost. Case closed.
08-18-14, 01:28 PM
#104
Pole Position
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Extremely well said... Now I want a 400 :-(. And the search for a clean one begins !
Yea the 400 definitely has more edge than the 430. When the 400 dropped it was Lexus only sports sedan. Also keep in mind that Lexus directed their attention solely towards BMW. Given BMW's enthusiast rich tradition, Lexus needed the car to be at a similar level. I'm assuming why the "feel" of the 400 is snappier and appears to have more of a sporty feel to the ride. I agree with 1QWKGS, that 400 is arguably one of if not the best car Lexus has ever built. It put them (and Japan) on the luxury sport sedan scene, officially. I'm sure Lexus can even attest to that statement and I'm certain they will. After all, the 2GS groundwork was laid in 1994!!! Four years before it was introduced to the market. Lexus knew that this was going to be a special vehicle.
And the name...Aristo. In Greek it means perfection and excellence. To Lexus, the 2GS is in their hall of fame.
And the name...Aristo. In Greek it means perfection and excellence. To Lexus, the 2GS is in their hall of fame.
