Anyone use non-ethanol gas?
04-10-15, 07:14 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Anyone use non-ethanol gas?
I usually average 18-19 mpg with 93 10% blend gas.
Tonight i decided to try 100% gasoline (91), and on my drive home I was averaging 23-24 mpg.
Anyone else try this? Can anyone else confirm much better mpg with non0ethanol gas
Tonight i decided to try 100% gasoline (91), and on my drive home I was averaging 23-24 mpg.
Anyone else try this? Can anyone else confirm much better mpg with non0ethanol gas
04-11-15, 03:11 AM
#2
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ny
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I use non eth all the time in the GS and motorcycle,if its available, never really checked the gas mileage but both seem to run better and have a little more get up and go with non eth. Probably all in my head but seems that way anyway, especially the motorcycle!!
04-11-15, 06:30 AM
#3
Lead Lap
I have never used gas with ethanol. You have to go way out of your way to even find gas with ethanol around here.
04-11-15, 06:33 AM
#4
Unfortunately no. I make an occasional 250 mile trip from Ft. Worth, TX to Edmund, OK and back. I usually fill up with ethanol-free gasoline up there prior to making the drive back. I notice no difference in gas mileage. It runs 29-31 mpg on both types of fuel. I wish I could use the ethanol-free fuel all the time because ethanol has been shown to shorten engine life.
04-11-15, 08:18 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Click HERE to learn of any cities with ethanol-free gas stations in your state (see bottom of page).
Map of ethanol-free stations
Map of ethanol-free stations
04-11-15, 08:39 AM
#6
Out of Warranty
The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than straight motor gasoline, which accounts for reduced mileage when burning ethanol-containing fuels that normally consist of 10% ethanol - marketed as E10. According to the US Energy Information Association, you can expect a 3.3% reduction in fuel economy when using E10, but in my own experience fueling in Houston with E10 and driving my RX to far South Texas and refueling with straight gasoline for the return trip, my mileage difference was similar to the OP's.
All automotive engines can burn E10, but concentrations of ethanol over that number may start producing problems. E15 can be burned in all engines produced since 2001, but greater concentrations of ethanol require a "flex-fuel" vehicle to avoid damage. Ethanol is sort of a "hamburger helper" for motor gasoline that stretches the supply of fuel by adding a renewable bio-fuel to the mix. Ethanol blends are supposed to reduce pollution by keeping the engine clean, but such has NOT proven to be the case:
While there are still questions about the long-term effects ethanol and ethanol blends can have on your engine, primarily to rubber and plastic components, and the hygroscopic properties of alcohol picking up water, particularly after long-term storage. Even if you wouldn't think of pouring water in your fuel tank, the ethanol in your fuel is already wringing quantities of water from the atmosphere and adding it to your tank for you.
it is clear that blended fuels do not perform as well as plain old motor gasoline - simply because the energy content by volume is considerably less than in unleaded regular gas. That effects both fuel economy and engine performance suffer - and are noticeable, particularly under hard acceleration. Sure, today's engine management computers can compensate by adjusting timing and mixture on the fly, but in order to re-organize the fuel map for the fuel and environment takes a couple of revolutions of the crank - and may result in what you perceive as "hesitation" when you drop the hammer.
That particular problem may be exacerbated by running "unleaded regular" in an engine that is electronically programmed for premium fuel. Of course, today's electronics can compensate for low-octane fuel by retarding the ignition timing, and adjusting the fuel mixture by tampering with the injector programming, but as indicated above, moving off the "default" map may require a few revolutions of the crank to accomplish. If you're experiencing a sort of mushy feel when you floor the throttle, particularly in passing situations, this may be part of the problem. As a compromise, I generally run unleaded regular out on the road on long road trips, but fill up with premium or a mid-grade fuel in the city - where a sudden burst of acceleration can be the difference between a good scare and a big repair bill.
Brand? It doesn't seem to matter as long as you stay with a national brand, dispensed from a retailer with a high volume of business. But these too can often be deceiving. Motor gasoline is a basic commodity and is usually bought in bulk by most distributors before delivery to retail outlets. Sometimes proprietary additives are poured into the delivery vehicle at the distributor to meet the retailer's specification (it requires a surprisingly small amount) to be sold as Texaco, Mobil, etc., or provide special properties as in aviation gasoline that may add anti-freeze, anti-knock, or other desirable compounds depending on climate, altitude, and conditions of use. Presence of these additives is generally indicated by a dye in the product that quickly indicates it's chemistry. "Raw" mogas should be clear.
But don't be surprised if the tanker dropping a load of fuel at your favorite retailer is a "no-name" bulk transport. Short of a lab analysis, there is no brand-name pedigree on gasoline at the retail level. OK, the pump placard may hawk ingredients like "Techron", but that's no proof that it's going in your tank. If you want specific additives, you're probably better off buying them at the auto supply and pouring them in yourself.
All automotive engines can burn E10, but concentrations of ethanol over that number may start producing problems. E15 can be burned in all engines produced since 2001, but greater concentrations of ethanol require a "flex-fuel" vehicle to avoid damage. Ethanol is sort of a "hamburger helper" for motor gasoline that stretches the supply of fuel by adding a renewable bio-fuel to the mix. Ethanol blends are supposed to reduce pollution by keeping the engine clean, but such has NOT proven to be the case:
Environmental engineer Mark Jacobson of Stanford University used a computer model to assess how the air pollution in the U.S. would react if vehicles remained primarily fueled by gasoline in 2020 or if the fleet transferred to a fuel that was a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline, so-called E85. Under the latter scenario, levels of the cancer-causing agents benzene and butadiene dropped, whereas those of formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose: In other words, it was a wash.
Because burning ethanol can potentially add more smog-forming pollution to the atmosphere, however, it can also exacerbate the ill effects of such air pollution. According to Jacobson, burning ethanol adds 22 percent more hydrocarbons to the atmosphere than does burning gasoline and this would lead to a nearly two parts per billion increase in tropospheric ozone. This surface ozone, which has been linked to inflamed lungs, impaired immune systems and heart disease by prior research, would in turn lead to a 4 percent increase in the number of ground level ozone-related deaths, or roughly 200 extra deaths a year. "Due to its ozone effects, future E85 may be a greater overall public health risk than gasoline," Jacobson writes in the study published in Environmental Science & Technology. "It can be concluded with confidence only that E85 is unlikely to improve air quality over future gasoline vehicles."
- Scientific American, April 18, 2007, by David Biello
Because burning ethanol can potentially add more smog-forming pollution to the atmosphere, however, it can also exacerbate the ill effects of such air pollution. According to Jacobson, burning ethanol adds 22 percent more hydrocarbons to the atmosphere than does burning gasoline and this would lead to a nearly two parts per billion increase in tropospheric ozone. This surface ozone, which has been linked to inflamed lungs, impaired immune systems and heart disease by prior research, would in turn lead to a 4 percent increase in the number of ground level ozone-related deaths, or roughly 200 extra deaths a year. "Due to its ozone effects, future E85 may be a greater overall public health risk than gasoline," Jacobson writes in the study published in Environmental Science & Technology. "It can be concluded with confidence only that E85 is unlikely to improve air quality over future gasoline vehicles."
- Scientific American, April 18, 2007, by David Biello
it is clear that blended fuels do not perform as well as plain old motor gasoline - simply because the energy content by volume is considerably less than in unleaded regular gas. That effects both fuel economy and engine performance suffer - and are noticeable, particularly under hard acceleration. Sure, today's engine management computers can compensate by adjusting timing and mixture on the fly, but in order to re-organize the fuel map for the fuel and environment takes a couple of revolutions of the crank - and may result in what you perceive as "hesitation" when you drop the hammer.
That particular problem may be exacerbated by running "unleaded regular" in an engine that is electronically programmed for premium fuel. Of course, today's electronics can compensate for low-octane fuel by retarding the ignition timing, and adjusting the fuel mixture by tampering with the injector programming, but as indicated above, moving off the "default" map may require a few revolutions of the crank to accomplish. If you're experiencing a sort of mushy feel when you floor the throttle, particularly in passing situations, this may be part of the problem. As a compromise, I generally run unleaded regular out on the road on long road trips, but fill up with premium or a mid-grade fuel in the city - where a sudden burst of acceleration can be the difference between a good scare and a big repair bill.
Brand? It doesn't seem to matter as long as you stay with a national brand, dispensed from a retailer with a high volume of business. But these too can often be deceiving. Motor gasoline is a basic commodity and is usually bought in bulk by most distributors before delivery to retail outlets. Sometimes proprietary additives are poured into the delivery vehicle at the distributor to meet the retailer's specification (it requires a surprisingly small amount) to be sold as Texaco, Mobil, etc., or provide special properties as in aviation gasoline that may add anti-freeze, anti-knock, or other desirable compounds depending on climate, altitude, and conditions of use. Presence of these additives is generally indicated by a dye in the product that quickly indicates it's chemistry. "Raw" mogas should be clear.
But don't be surprised if the tanker dropping a load of fuel at your favorite retailer is a "no-name" bulk transport. Short of a lab analysis, there is no brand-name pedigree on gasoline at the retail level. OK, the pump placard may hawk ingredients like "Techron", but that's no proof that it's going in your tank. If you want specific additives, you're probably better off buying them at the auto supply and pouring them in yourself.
06-17-18, 07:25 AM
#7
Driver School Candidate
I only use non ethanol
I have a 2017 IS350 and i make a point to use non ethanol in my cars and also lawn equipment. After they changed to 10% ethanol I remember reading issues about it burning up lines etc. I had an 04 Lexus IS300 that everyone said would run forever bc of the engine. I always did maintenance but ran ethanol and it ended up overheating and was never the same. This was just over 100k. I still miss that car.
I ran non ethanol in my 2012 Kia Sorento. It has almost 200k miles. Could be a complete coincidence and the newer engines are fine with ethanol but I’m going to keep using non ethanol.
I ran non ethanol in my 2012 Kia Sorento. It has almost 200k miles. Could be a complete coincidence and the newer engines are fine with ethanol but I’m going to keep using non ethanol.
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06-17-18, 07:38 AM
#8
Instructor
In Toronto, Shell 91 is ethanol-free, practically everywhere else has 10% ethanol. It's 5% more expensive for 91 at Shell than at other stations.
I notice generally gas mileage in the GS with Shell 91 but not sure it makes up for 5% premium over any station(not to mention having to drive farther to fill up). I do use strictly ethanol free in my carb-ed lawn and garden equipment though for longevity reasons. Carburetor engines just don't handle ethanol well.
I notice generally gas mileage in the GS with Shell 91 but not sure it makes up for 5% premium over any station(not to mention having to drive farther to fill up). I do use strictly ethanol free in my carb-ed lawn and garden equipment though for longevity reasons. Carburetor engines just don't handle ethanol well.
06-17-18, 08:02 AM
#9
It's the "genius" behind "fuel savings." Tell the consumer it's good for the environment, tax them to high heaven and decrease fuel efficiency, so they have to go to the pump more often, so you can tax them to high heaven! It's brilliant!!!
We haven't had non ethanol gas around me for a while. I used to be able to get it for my GX. When I first bought the truck, I used to get 21.5 average per tank. Then came the "new and improved" fuel and my mileage dropped to 19. That was a big hit, so fuel was "improved" again and my mileage dropped to 17. Things stabilized somewhat after the decision to go to 10% ethanol. At that point I enjoyed a steady 14.7 and all non ethanol options were removed. 21.5 vs. 14.7. Genius fuel modification wasn't it?
We haven't had non ethanol gas around me for a while. I used to be able to get it for my GX. When I first bought the truck, I used to get 21.5 average per tank. Then came the "new and improved" fuel and my mileage dropped to 19. That was a big hit, so fuel was "improved" again and my mileage dropped to 17. Things stabilized somewhat after the decision to go to 10% ethanol. At that point I enjoyed a steady 14.7 and all non ethanol options were removed. 21.5 vs. 14.7. Genius fuel modification wasn't it?
06-17-18, 08:30 AM
#10
It's called reducing your carbon foot print... you know... leaving something your kids and their kids can breathe. All these complaints about reduced mileage but such misguided notions on why these regulations were implemented in the first place. Go figure.
06-17-18, 10:11 AM
#12
Instructor
Translation: we make the consumer pay 10 to 20% more, it generates more taxes, we have 10 to 20% more "gasoline" to sell. What's not to like? It's a Win:Win situation. Nobody loses.
06-18-18, 10:37 AM
#14
The consumer gets hosed through bad fuel economy and paying more for fuel... plus all the other bad stuff caused by ethanol being in gasoline.
-Mike
06-18-18, 12:57 PM
#15
Instructor