obturator

Now you are being ridiculous. Your analogies are so off base that I'm not going to address it any further.

Atomic350F

Such a superb platform, I am glad to see they stuffed the V-8 in there to take full advantage!!

Awesome car

gyrase321

Well the analogy achieves the purpose of demonstrating why the comparisons you read on car mags need to be seen in the context of what metrics are actually being compared. The CD/Motortrend crowd make no secret that they are interested in a car's track worthiness uber alles. A select group of car reviewers pass judgment on a handful of cars. Note the lack of statistical integrity of this process. The car reviewers are not representative of all potential car drivers. We don't even know what their credentials are other than being journalists. And the cars being reviewed are not representative of the cars actually being sold to the public. Yet we accept the reviews as gospel truth and regurgitate these on an anonymous internet forum.

If track worthiness is what you want to measure, compare like for like. You can't say a car with 467 hp is inferior to something with 600hp because they are not in the same league. This is common sense.

obturator

I'm not going to address your analogy because it's disingenuous... But ur last paragraph proves my point. Lexus wants F to be taken seriously. How can we, when they make it not in the same league as its competitors? That's the point. If it's not in the same league, don't slap that F badge on it. U speak of track cars. Well, buyers in this segment are less likely to track their cars--what they want is image, prestige, and performance they can brag about. All these factors are propelled by the brands top performance model. This is not just about the GS but about the F brand in general.

peteharvey

I see, the medial angle of the headlights no longer line up with the bonnet hump line.
In other words, the bonnet hump line used to flow smoothly onto the medial corner of the headlights, but that is no longer so.
Now, there is a small break in the flow as the bonnet hump line flows between the left headlight assembly and the grill - thus the new nose is a little bit of an after-thought.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

how many people would continue to whine and complain if a GSF was over $100k to "compete with the E63/M5." Those two cars are grossly overpriced, Lexus should make an overpriced car too because they do! M5 was nice when it used to cost 80-90k, now its bloated to 120k. No thanks

gyrase321

Then you compare the GSF to the S6 or the 550 which are the closest comparables. Why compare it to the M5 when that is clearly not where The GSF plays in? Comparing it to the M5 is analogous to comparing a Corolla to Tesla. If you think the comparison of the Corolla to the Tesla is disingenuous, then so is your comparo of the GSF to the M5. The only difference here is the degree of separation. But the logic holds. You've made my point. Reductio ad absurdum.

Not everyone who buys a sports luxury sedan at the level of the GSF necessarily want "image" or bragging rights. Many may just want a fun to drive, capable, reliable, powerful, luxurious vehicle that is understated in its opulence and is not necessarily out to beat the crap of an M5. Stealth wealth is what it's called. Look it up.

ilv1004s

iTrader: (8)

the GSF is a M5 class car full stop
it doesnt have the HP of the M5 or the E63

Just due to the fact that the GSF has lower power compared to is M5/E63 rivals it automaticaly beomces a 550 rival?
your kidding yourself 550 is a run of the mill car with the same interior and a bigger motor
the GSF clearly departs itself from the run of the mil GS lineup. The GSF is a car that has been created to compete in the M5/E63/RS6 class but fails to deliver in the HP stats

if the GSF/ISF/RCF is not a direct competitor with the M/AMG's then what else is it going to compare to?

gyrase321

Do you really think Lexus is stupid that it will create an M5 competitor knowing what the M5 specs are and make a car that is deliberately less powered than that which it's supposedly competing against? Keep the analysis simple. We don't have to overcomplicate things. The explanation for why the GSF was created with these specs is because the GSF was not created as an M5 competitor. Take Lexus at its word when it says it created a fun luxurious car with no benchmark in mind, instead of pretending to read the minds of the GSF designers and what they may or may not have intended the car for. The stated purpose of the GSF is to be a fun, luxurious, fast, powerful reliable 4 door sedan that will appeal to enthusiasts and amateurs alike......regardless of what other cars may exist in the marketplace.

obturator

Simple, don't slap the F badge on it and it won't be compared to the M5. Not too hard to comprehend and far from your absurd comparo of the corolla and tesla.

ZbynekZ

This is so naive

And in 1989 they didn't want to build a competitor to Mercedes, just car "regardless of what other cars may exist in the marketplace"

rominl

iTrader: (4)

so it sounds like it has more to do with your underlying dislike on the m5 than how the cars will be viewed and compared.

let's look at some numbers and see where we are heading here

for 80-90k, that would be the e39 m5, which means 2000-2005. e60 were in the 90s and touching 100k already. 90k to 120k, that's 30k increase, 33% increase

i was this close from getting a 05 ls430 ultra luxury top of the line, msrp was 65k i believe. looking at ls460 now (i won't even count lwb and awd), getting it to very loaded and it is 85k for ls460 and 89k for ls460 fsport. say 85k, that's 20k increase translating into 30.7%

now the 2gs (01-05), a loaded gs300 back then was 48k, now a loaded gs350 can get up to 65k. 17k difference, translating to 35.4%

i won't need to continue further, my point is clear. inflation sucks. to me, all cars are expensive now and it gets harder and harder for me to feel comfortable getting a new one. do i feel 120k for m5 is expensive? hell yeah. at the same time i also feel ls460 is very expensive now.

it's ok to have preference of a car over another, everyone has their bias. but please don't make it sound like lexus never had price increase over the years

ZbynekZ

Great comment. Perfect eyes!

SW17LS

Which I can throw right back at a bunch of you guys only inserting the word "Lexus" where you put "M5". We all have biases, and they are very clear.

Just a heads up...this is not the thread in Car Chat...this is the thread in the 4GS Forum. According to what I was told we're supposed to be allowed to be brand and model loyalists in here without being called out by people who aren't 4GS owners or enthusiasts.

sick21

We're all going to feel differently about the GS F. I personally thought it was an M5 and AMG competitor but I'm not heartbroken that it might not be either. I want those seats!!!!