Lexus just ruined it for me
12-21-14, 08:54 PM
#31
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Sure it is, but we all have a role to play in good relationships with people we do business with. I'm a believer that realistic and reasonable expectations and a friendly, courteous way of doing business have a huge impact in the quality of service that you get back from whoever you do business with. Thats how I have always conducted myself both professionally and personally and its always worked for me. I have had bad situations happen with dealerships many times, and I have at times walked out and decided not to do business with a specific dealer or person at a dealer...because I know that if they can't treat me the way I treat them the issue is clearly with them...because while I have high expectations I'm a delightful person to have as a customer.
We're not getting the whole story here. In the end, the person that is hurt is him. They'll sell that car to somebody, he's the one without his new car that he wanted tonight.
We're not getting the whole story here. In the end, the person that is hurt is him. They'll sell that car to somebody, he's the one without his new car that he wanted tonight.
The problem is, they gave me different terms of service, plus rudeness and lies when I pointed out some glaring problems. There was no need to do all this. How can you not do a proper car wash before delivering? The worst used car dealership would do that.
I'm not hurt for missing out on the car. If I really wanted it so much, I'd have kept my mouth shut and taken it the way I wanted it. Since the car wasn't what I wanted, I'm not at all 'hurt' about missing out on the car. My deeper philosophical side nonchalantly says that it is just a fancy tin box with four wheels.
12-21-14, 09:00 PM
#32
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This is a post from you in your thread about the deal last month:
So, what changed between your understanding at the end of November, which was in line with what you've been told by the sales manager, and now all of a sudden he's lying when he tells you what you obviously knew was the truth in November?
Again...we're not getting the whole story.
Again, you didn't answer my question. How did you react when you saw the car was not cleaned to your satisfaction? Did you calmly point out the issues with the condition of the car and arrange for it to be cleaned to your satisfaction, or did you rant and rave and yell "How can you not do a proper car wash before delivering? The worst used car dealership would do that."
The cash 'sticker' price is $57379.xx on the Lexus site. If you go to Unhaggle.com and get the invoice price, you'll see the numbers I mention. But that is the 'dealer invoice' price. You should be able to get a car within $1k to $1.5k of that, sometimes even less.
The car though still new and Untitlted has been in service for the last several months. Which means, I'll lose out on the new car warranty and the distance by this amount. I think extended warranty should be an option, but given my recent track record, the car will be long gone before that
The car though still new and Untitlted has been in service for the last several months. Which means, I'll lose out on the new car warranty and the distance by this amount. I think extended warranty should be an option, but given my recent track record, the car will be long gone before that
Again...we're not getting the whole story.
And my friend, what makes you think that I did not act pleasantly or nicely when I went to take the delivery of the vehicle, with my family, in another Lexus?
The problem is, they gave me different terms of service, plus rudeness and lies when I pointed out some glaring problems. There was no need to do all this. How can you not do a proper car wash before delivering? The worst used car dealership would do that.
The problem is, they gave me different terms of service, plus rudeness and lies when I pointed out some glaring problems. There was no need to do all this. How can you not do a proper car wash before delivering? The worst used car dealership would do that.
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-21-14 at 09:09 PM.
12-21-14, 09:13 PM
#33
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Perhaps, in my first post, when I was still inquiring about the car, I did not have all the facts with me. This was later clarified that I will only lose out on the distance and not the 'duration' of warranty. And this is what is printed on the invoice that is still with me. Warranty start date is labelled as 'NA' as it is implied to be the purchase date for a new car.
Here's what happened for those who are still reading this story. I went over the paper work with the Delivery coordinator. She and I came to the car and walked around. I stared noticing the problems. First the little paint chips, then the scratches, then the scuff marks on the bumper. I pointed these out and she agreed with me.
Oh, I forgot, she got her 'magic cream' and began to rub on the bumper and other affected areas that I pointed out. But alas, it was too feeble an attempt, but full of wonderful spirit. When she couldn't do much to alleviate the marks herself, she asked me to take an appointment for Monday and get these resolved. And for me which meant, it would never happen as they'll say,"You just got a great deal, thank your lucky stars!"
And exactly what would I say to them the following Monday, "That I got a demo that's scratched and chipped. Please clean it?" Clearly that would be fantasy land thinking, given they presented me the dirty/scratched car to begin with.
Then I began to notice more problems-like dirty door gaskets with dirt shining under the bright dealership lights. I said that I won't take the delivery of the vehicle until these problems are resolved and began to walk out. She said that she'll get in touch with me on Monday.
As I was walking out, the delivery coordinator told me that the Sales Manager wanted to see me.
And that's when his web of lies and misinformation began.
dirty car plus scratches plus series of lies by the sales manager= me getting angry.
That is the story. You can still wonder how your beloved Lexus' manager could behave like this, but I just experienced this.
Here's what happened for those who are still reading this story. I went over the paper work with the Delivery coordinator. She and I came to the car and walked around. I stared noticing the problems. First the little paint chips, then the scratches, then the scuff marks on the bumper. I pointed these out and she agreed with me.
Oh, I forgot, she got her 'magic cream' and began to rub on the bumper and other affected areas that I pointed out. But alas, it was too feeble an attempt, but full of wonderful spirit. When she couldn't do much to alleviate the marks herself, she asked me to take an appointment for Monday and get these resolved. And for me which meant, it would never happen as they'll say,"You just got a great deal, thank your lucky stars!"
And exactly what would I say to them the following Monday, "That I got a demo that's scratched and chipped. Please clean it?" Clearly that would be fantasy land thinking, given they presented me the dirty/scratched car to begin with.
Then I began to notice more problems-like dirty door gaskets with dirt shining under the bright dealership lights. I said that I won't take the delivery of the vehicle until these problems are resolved and began to walk out. She said that she'll get in touch with me on Monday.
As I was walking out, the delivery coordinator told me that the Sales Manager wanted to see me.
And that's when his web of lies and misinformation began.
dirty car plus scratches plus series of lies by the sales manager= me getting angry.
That is the story. You can still wonder how your beloved Lexus' manager could behave like this, but I just experienced this.
Last edited by lexusfreez; 12-21-14 at 09:19 PM.
12-21-14, 09:24 PM
#34
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Perhaps, in my first post, when I was still inquiring about the car, I did not have all the facts with me. This was later clarified that I will only lose out on the distance and not the 'duration' of warranty. And this is what is printed on the invoice that is still with me. Warranty start date is labelled as 'NA' as it is implied to be the purchase date for a new car.
Oh, I forgot, she got her 'magic cream' and began to rub on the bumper and other affected areas that I pointed out. But alas, it was too feeble an attempt, but full of wonderful spirit. When she couldn't do much to alleviate the marks herself, she asked me to take an appointment for Monday and get these resolved. And for me which meant, it would never happen as they'll say,"You just got a great deal, thank your lucky stars!"
Then I began to notice more problems-like dirty door gaskets with dirt shining under the bright dealership lights. I said that I won't take the delivery of the vehicle until these problems are resolved and began to walk out. She said that she'll get in touch with me on Monday.
As I was walking out, the delivery coordinator told me that the Sales Manager wanted to see me.
And that's when his web of lies and misinformation began.
As I was walking out, the delivery coordinator told me that the Sales Manager wanted to see me.
And that's when his web of lies and misinformation began.
I stand by what I said. I think you reacted badly to seeing the car was not how you wanted it to be, and just turned around and bailed on them. The sales manager walked out to back up his delivery person as you were walking out and reacted to your tone and attitude, and it devolved from there. You're reacting badly, he's in defensive mode...all and all not likely to end well.
Certainly they are not without blame, the car should have been properly prepped, but it takes two to tango. People are just people, and sometimes mistakes are made. In reality what you had was a minor prep issue, easily solved, and it got blown out of proportion. If it truly is no skin off your nose, why are you still devoting your energy to trying to convince us that you were in the right and they're a bunch of crooks? Why not just move on?
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-21-14 at 09:30 PM.
12-21-14, 09:36 PM
#36
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Perhaps, I have much to learn about handling difficult situations. And you are reading too much into my words and that too incorrectly. I mention her attempt as 'feeble but spirited'. That is, she wanted to do a lot with lots of spirit but couldn't do that because of the problem she was confronting. It wasn't a little dirt spot that she could clean with her 'magic cream', it would require proper buffing in the shop. That's why her attempt was spirited but feeble. There's no sarcasm here.
And then there's the whole thing about being the customer. I did not go to the dealership to 'resolve a conflict'. I went there with my family to pick up a 45k car. Perhaps if the sales manager had been trained by some fine and skilled person like you, this situation would never have arisen.
I resolve problems and handle irate customers in my business each day. My job is to make them happy. And set the problem straight for them. If I screw up or do not meet their expectations, I offer them generous credits and apologize to them. May be this is the expectation I have when I become a customer too. That's the job of all businesses. To make it right for the customer. To set the tone straight and not to get into a fight with the customer. Customers have expectations. Especially when they spend big dollars on established brands.
Again, perhaps you are a more evolved person and customer than I am. I just have some expectations that when I take delivery of a 45k car, certain standards will be met.
And that Sales manager won't lie blatantly and compel a customer to walk away from the 'deal' in which he would lose money.
And then there's the whole thing about being the customer. I did not go to the dealership to 'resolve a conflict'. I went there with my family to pick up a 45k car. Perhaps if the sales manager had been trained by some fine and skilled person like you, this situation would never have arisen.
I resolve problems and handle irate customers in my business each day. My job is to make them happy. And set the problem straight for them. If I screw up or do not meet their expectations, I offer them generous credits and apologize to them. May be this is the expectation I have when I become a customer too. That's the job of all businesses. To make it right for the customer. To set the tone straight and not to get into a fight with the customer. Customers have expectations. Especially when they spend big dollars on established brands.
Again, perhaps you are a more evolved person and customer than I am. I just have some expectations that when I take delivery of a 45k car, certain standards will be met.
And that Sales manager won't lie blatantly and compel a customer to walk away from the 'deal' in which he would lose money.
12-21-14, 09:47 PM
#37
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I resolve problems and handle irate customers in my business each day. My job is to make them happy. And set the problem straight for them. If I screw up or do not meet their expectations, I offer them generous credits and apologize to them. May be this is the expectation I have when I become a customer too. That's the job of all businesses. To make it right for the customer. To set the tone straight and not to get into a fight with the customer. Customers have expectations. Especially when they spend big dollars on established brands.
What exactly is it that you would expect them to do? Instead of agreeing and participating in resolving your conflict, you turned around and left. You say you "offer generous credits"...is that what you're looking for? Some monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations? You're not "owed" monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations. What you're owed is the vehicle delivered to you in the condition and at the price set forth in your agreement to purchase. Anything above and beyond is above and beyond. You can't expect above and beyond, you appreciate it when its there.
And that Sales manager won't lie blatantly and compel a customer to walk away from the 'deal' in which he would lose money.
You got angry and it blew up the deal. Obviously at some point the sales manager became angry too, I promise you it wasn't about the money you paid for the car...it was about the way in which the situation was going down. It is what it is.
12-21-14, 10:03 PM
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Okay...so the car was not prepped to your satisfaction, and the delivery prep person noted your concerns, agreed they were not addressed properly and made a commitment to make them right.
What exactly is it that you would expect them to do? Instead of agreeing and participating in resolving your conflict, you turned around and left. You say you "offer generous credits"...is that what you're looking for? Some monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations? You're not "owed" monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations. What you're owed is the vehicle delivered to you in the condition and at the price set forth in your agreement to purchase. Anything above and beyond is above and beyond. You can't expect above and beyond, you appreciate it when its there.
What exactly is it that you would expect them to do? Instead of agreeing and participating in resolving your conflict, you turned around and left. You say you "offer generous credits"...is that what you're looking for? Some monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations? You're not "owed" monetary compensation for them not meeting your expectations. What you're owed is the vehicle delivered to you in the condition and at the price set forth in your agreement to purchase. Anything above and beyond is above and beyond. You can't expect above and beyond, you appreciate it when its there.
There's the "compelling you to walk away" BS again. Thats crap...they had a deal to sell you the car and they want to sell you the car. I'm still not clear as to where the sales manager has lied. Obviously at one time you thought you would not get the full warranty, and then at some time you came to believe you would, and now he's saying you won't So...obviously there is some confusion there. Confusion is not lying.
You got angry and it blew up the deal. Obviously at some point the sales manager became angry too, I promise you it wasn't about the money you paid for the car...it was about the way in which the situation was going down. It is what it is.[/QUOTE]
An experienced Lexus sales manager who sells several 'demos' a month should not be 'confused' about warranty terms. He clearly told me that the warranty duration would be reduced. The delivery coordinator and the invoice do not say so. You can keep on making assumptions about why sales manager would not lie. That's your faith in Lexus.
I don't care for the 'deal.' If I cared about the 'deal', I would not even point out the problems with the car and just driven away into fantasyland.
And how can you 'promise' me that it wasn't about the money? You don't know anything about the situation except for what I've told you. And you are making me a 'promise' based on a partial third hand account of the situation based on no information about the financials.
You don't even live in Canada and have experienced the trouble that arises when you have just one lousy monopolistic dealer that deals with you on their terms.
12-21-14, 10:11 PM
#39
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An experienced Lexus sales manager who sells several 'demos' a month should not be 'confused' about warranty terms. He clearly told me that the warranty duration would be reduced. The delivery coordinator and the invoice do not say so. You can keep on making assumptions about why sales manager would not lie. That's your faith in Lexus.
Again...the sales manager does not work for Lexus. He works for the dealer, which is an entirely separate entity and business. A lot of these people are just morons.
I don't care for the 'deal.' If I cared about the 'deal', I would not even point out the problems with the car and just driven away into fantasyland.
And how can you 'promise' me that it wasn't about the money?
You don't even live in Canada and have experienced the trouble that arises when you have just one lousy monopolistic dealer that deals with you on their terms.
12-21-14, 10:21 PM
#40
lexusfreez- Sorry you got an unprofessional a-hole to ruin your new car buying experience-same crap happened to me from the finance guy handling my account. I still haven't had a chance to go in to follow up with my official complaint- email corporate and everyone at the management level at the dealership. I didn't read your whole thread just your first post, hopefully you didn't take delivery of the car, sounds completely trashed. Find another car and dealership. GL with everything.
12-21-14, 10:36 PM
#41
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This is what I've been saying all along:
Again...the sales manager does not work for Lexus. He works for the dealer, which is an entirely separate entity and business. A lot of these people are just morons.
I was indeed dealing with a moron. Can you blame me for getting angry?
Again...the sales manager does not work for Lexus. He works for the dealer, which is an entirely separate entity and business. A lot of these people are just morons.
I was indeed dealing with a moron. Can you blame me for getting angry?
12-21-14, 10:39 PM
#42
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To the OP:
I don't know why people are jumping all over you. I don't think your expectations were unreasonable at all - whether the car is considered "new" or "used". It's still a Lexus dealership and my Lexus dealership would've been tripping all over themselves fixing such issues if it had indeed been talked about before (the minor scratches). I see the problem here probably is that there is no other game in town (no other Lexus dealerships that aren't owned by a competitor), so they have no reason to up their game. At least my Lexus experience has been much better. Acura here has also always treated me nicely, as has MB. Now BMW, I can't even get a salesperson to give me a test drive and they get all snooty on me the moment I walk in the door.
I don't know why people are jumping all over you. I don't think your expectations were unreasonable at all - whether the car is considered "new" or "used". It's still a Lexus dealership and my Lexus dealership would've been tripping all over themselves fixing such issues if it had indeed been talked about before (the minor scratches). I see the problem here probably is that there is no other game in town (no other Lexus dealerships that aren't owned by a competitor), so they have no reason to up their game. At least my Lexus experience has been much better. Acura here has also always treated me nicely, as has MB. Now BMW, I can't even get a salesperson to give me a test drive and they get all snooty on me the moment I walk in the door.
12-21-14, 10:41 PM
#43
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You were dealing with a moron, but you pretty much always will be. You walked away from a good deal because the guy was a moron. My point is, your reaction to the situation set up your confrontation with him. Had you dealt with the prep woman properly, you never would have even talked to the guy.
I've bought many cars from morons. It's a business transaction, if the numbers work emotions, anger, whatever doesn't enter into it. Bottom line is that's a deal you're not likely to replicate, so you're going to pay more to deal with someone else...who also will likely be a moron. Not a lot of point in that.
I've bought many cars from morons. It's a business transaction, if the numbers work emotions, anger, whatever doesn't enter into it. Bottom line is that's a deal you're not likely to replicate, so you're going to pay more to deal with someone else...who also will likely be a moron. Not a lot of point in that.
12-21-14, 10:52 PM
#44
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You are probably right. I should have smartened up myself and reminded myself that I might encounter a moron in the dealership. Based on your experience and expertise in dealing with these guys, I'll remember it for the next transaction. So to help everyone and myself for future here are some lessons learned:
1. Never buy a demo. Even if they say it's 'new', never titled before, has full warranty duration. Just say sorry and ask for new.
2. Or remember clearly that you are buying a used car. Despite the charade of a new car that comes with a 'demo', it will always be a used car.
3. Since you'll be dealing with lying morons, it's better to fix at least one part of the equation. And that just might be a 'new car'. They can't really screw up a new car much, so it's advantageous to just get a new car and not worry about the warranty, kms, scratches etc.
Finally, if you have time, visit some dealerships in Canada. You'll be surprised to learn that business is not business everywhere. Most certainly at the consumer side. But that's for another day and another thread.
1. Never buy a demo. Even if they say it's 'new', never titled before, has full warranty duration. Just say sorry and ask for new.
2. Or remember clearly that you are buying a used car. Despite the charade of a new car that comes with a 'demo', it will always be a used car.
3. Since you'll be dealing with lying morons, it's better to fix at least one part of the equation. And that just might be a 'new car'. They can't really screw up a new car much, so it's advantageous to just get a new car and not worry about the warranty, kms, scratches etc.
Finally, if you have time, visit some dealerships in Canada. You'll be surprised to learn that business is not business everywhere. Most certainly at the consumer side. But that's for another day and another thread.
12-21-14, 10:55 PM
#45
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You are probably right. I should have smartened up myself and reminded myself that I might encounter a moron in the dealership. Based on your experience and expertise in dealing with these guys, I'll remember it for the next transaction. So to help everyone and myself for future here are some lessons learned:
1. Never buy a demo. Even if they say it's 'new', never titled before, has full warranty duration. Just say sorry and ask for new.
2. Or remember clearly that you are buying a used car. Despite the charade of a new car that comes with a 'demo', it will always be a used car.
3. Since you'll be dealing with lying morons, it's better to fix at least one part of the equation. And that just might be a 'new car'. They can't really screw up a new car much, so it's advantageous to just get a new car and not worry about the warranty, kms, scratches etc.
1. Never buy a demo. Even if they say it's 'new', never titled before, has full warranty duration. Just say sorry and ask for new.
2. Or remember clearly that you are buying a used car. Despite the charade of a new car that comes with a 'demo', it will always be a used car.
3. Since you'll be dealing with lying morons, it's better to fix at least one part of the equation. And that just might be a 'new car'. They can't really screw up a new car much, so it's advantageous to just get a new car and not worry about the warranty, kms, scratches etc.
I hope it works out for you.