Mark Levinson
08-06-14, 02:08 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
I'm not here to argue the point. I have a 5.1 and a 2 channel system at home in the living room and in a listening room. I know surround sound when I hear it, and I know when it's being faked. You're right in that, when fed a 2 channel signal, the ML system will use the DSP to create a fake surround experience. Any surround sound receiver will do this when presented with a 2 channel signal if the options are set right.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So
is a massive failure.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So
It's not even discrete surround sound. In other words, it will not decode 5.1 discs.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
08-06-14, 07:39 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
I'm not here to argue the point. I have a 5.1 and a 2 channel system at home in the living room and in a listening room. I know surround sound when I hear it, and I know when it's being faked. You're right in that, when fed a 2 channel signal, the ML system will use the DSP to create a fake surround experience. Any surround sound receiver will do this when presented with a 2 channel signal if the options are set right.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So is a massive failure.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So is a massive failure.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
08-07-14, 11:05 AM
#18
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I'm not here to argue the point. I have a 5.1 and a 2 channel system at home in the living room and in a listening room. I know surround sound when I hear it, and I know when it's being faked. You're right in that, when fed a 2 channel signal, the ML system will use the DSP to create a fake surround experience. Any surround sound receiver will do this when presented with a 2 channel signal if the options are set right.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So is a massive failure.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
For example, at home, my Yamaha receiver will take an internet radio stream (2 channel stereo) and leave it alone in Pure Direct or 2 channel mode, or fake surround it in any number of Dolby modes including 5.1 and 7.1. When it splits those 2 channels into 5.1 or 7.1, all it does is distribute the audio equally across all speakers minus the sub (which is crossed over of course).
In the car, with the ML system and the surround mode on, if it's fed a 2 channel source it will try to turn it into surround sound. BUT, and here's the key point, if I feed it a surround sound format (dolby 5.1 from a DVD video or audio disc), it WILL decode the surround stream and present it accurately. It won't fake it, it has no need to. So is a massive failure.
Just last week, as part of an experiment for the ML demonstration thread we've been discussing for a while, I brought the Gladiator DVD into the car, specifically chose the 5.1 dolby audio track, and played it. Dialogue was front and center, ambient rear effects were in the rear speakers, etc. Placement was accurate.
This is nothing new. The 2006 GS offered many of the same features. From the 2006 marketing materials, "5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD Video, DVD Audio and DVD-R discs". Decoding. Not faking it, not making 2 channel audio into surround sound, DECODING from a 5.1 source.
Tell you what. Before you reply, take a DVD movie with 5.1 dolby on it into your car, hit play, and listen closely. I think you'll find for yourself that decoding is taking place. If you're not convinced I guess I can engineer a 5.1 DVD audio disc, put specific sounds in each channel, and mail it to you.
08-08-14, 10:14 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
Absolutely. I can take a video on my phone and post it to youtube if you want. DVD Audio disc or DVD video?
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
08-09-14, 11:47 AM
#20
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Absolutely. I can take a video on my phone and post it to youtube if you want. DVD Audio disc or DVD video?
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
08-09-14, 01:44 PM
#21
Have appt with dealer on Monday. They are kind of backed up cause of our hurricane watch. Tech said he's pretty sure he knows the issue. Japan did in fact downgrade firmware on some cars in reaction to complaints of some discs not being able to play. Instead of fixing the problem, they just removed all reference to surround sound and disc compatibility from owners manuals and downgraded the firmware. My manual does not even actually say it plays DVDs! Tech said upgraded firmware plays Dolby digital only as far as he knows. No dts. Is he correct?
08-09-14, 11:55 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
I'll take some discs out to the car tomorrow and see if DTS works as well as standard Dolby 5.1 surround. I'm pretty sure it does but I won't confirm until I have facts. It's cool that your tech is going to make an attempt to remedy this.
I've also heard from Lexus that DVD's are not officially supported on the 2013 GS with ML system. Maybe this is why the documentation on it is so hard to find. Or maybe they don't want to encourage people to try to watch movies while driving (even though the nanny system prevents that). Whatever the reason, it's cool that you may get a solution and get to enjoy real, discrete surround audio.
I've also heard from Lexus that DVD's are not officially supported on the 2013 GS with ML system. Maybe this is why the documentation on it is so hard to find. Or maybe they don't want to encourage people to try to watch movies while driving (even though the nanny system prevents that). Whatever the reason, it's cool that you may get a solution and get to enjoy real, discrete surround audio.
08-13-14, 05:24 PM
#23
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I'll take some discs out to the car tomorrow and see if DTS works as well as standard Dolby 5.1 surround. I'm pretty sure it does but I won't confirm until I have facts. It's cool that your tech is going to make an attempt to remedy this.
I've also heard from Lexus that DVD's are not officially supported on the 2013 GS with ML system. Maybe this is why the documentation on it is so hard to find. Or maybe they don't want to encourage people to try to watch movies while driving (even though the nanny system prevents that). Whatever the reason, it's cool that you may get a solution and get to enjoy real, discrete surround audio.
I've also heard from Lexus that DVD's are not officially supported on the 2013 GS with ML system. Maybe this is why the documentation on it is so hard to find. Or maybe they don't want to encourage people to try to watch movies while driving (even though the nanny system prevents that). Whatever the reason, it's cool that you may get a solution and get to enjoy real, discrete surround audio.
08-14-14, 03:24 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
Thank you very much! My ML now plays 5.1 Surround. I played several concert DVDs and the Dolby Digital worked well. I only had one disc with DTS with me at the time. I think it was Eagles (Hell Freezes Over). I can select DTS but no sound out of the system. Maybe the tech was correct. When I have more time, I'll try more DTS DVDs.
09-01-14, 05:37 PM
#25
Absolutely. I can take a video on my phone and post it to youtube if you want. DVD Audio disc or DVD video?
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
>Edit: I find it hard to believe that 5.1 decoding would be disabled on the 2014 ML system. I'm wondering if you have Surround off for that source. Check the sound options menu for "Disc" and see if it's on or off.
I burned a DVD-Video disc with 24 bit/48 Khz (it goes into the TS_Video folder) and that plays fine.
09-01-14, 11:40 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Are you able to play DVD-Audio discs with material only in the TS_AUDIO folder? I used to be able to play DVD-Audio discs that I had burned with Cirlinca's HD Audio Solo on a 2008 and 2012 LS 460. I just moved to a 2014 LS and it will not recognize those DVD-Audio discs. The DVD-Audio discs have 24 bit/48 Khz material.
I burned a DVD-Video disc with 24 bit/48 Khz (it goes into the TS_Video folder) and that plays fine.
I burned a DVD-Video disc with 24 bit/48 Khz (it goes into the TS_Video folder) and that plays fine.
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