Sal Collaziano

I hear you 100% but wanting is one thing - being better is another. A 528i is still a much higher quality vehicle and more feature rich than an Accord. If you want to do an apple to apple comparison, compare the BMW 320i to the Honda Civic. As "low" as BMW has come, there's no comparison between the two cars...

natnut

By what measure is a stripper 320i better than a fully loaded V6 accord aside from the badge snobbery? Better interior? More features? Faster acceleration ? Better crashworthiness? Better road holding? Better steering? Hint : answer is none of the above. Go to F30 forums and the less brainwashed members there will readily admit that F30 steering is barely better or worse than bread and butter econo accords.

Unless of course you are talking about that mysterious intangible BMW feel that is so hard to quantify but immediately you can tell once you catch sight of the roundel on the bonnet.

jjscsix

I happen to agree with you. No way do I want a stripper version of a car when you can buy a better equipped car from the Japanese. That is why I just bought my wife her GS350. A BMW with comparable equipment is easily $10,000 more money. Its no different than the comparison you make. I too would rather have a loaded Accord than a stripped BMW, and the Accord gets great reviews for it's driving dynamics. I gave known several BMW owners who have bought them just for the name.

peteharvey

Wow, a top of the line midsize car like a Camry V6, or an entry level midsize luxury car like a 5 Series four cylinder turbo etc?

It depends on personal tastes too.
It could go either way.
In reality, both routes sell well too...

Sal Collaziano

I'm not comparing a stripper 320i to a fully loaded Accord. Get glasses, Alice. I'm comparing a 5-Series to an Accord. They're both midsize cars. I realize there's a huge price difference but what we've been discussing here is how BMW is going for the low hanging fruit for sales and whether or not that's going to damage their "perceived value" over the long hall.

On one hand, BMW is becoming less of an "enthusiast" company - which can hurt sales over the long hall because being an enthusiast company is what's made them so desirable up until now. On the other hand, their cars are becoming more comfortable and luxurious - which is exactly how Lexus has been so successful thus far.

99% of American citizens who own cars like the Accord, Camry or Altima are not going to test drive a 528i and say, "Boy, I have no idea why anyone likes this car so much".

If you want to compare a stripper BMW to a Honda, than compare it to a stripper Honda. And at least compare class to class. Of course a midsize (almost full size) FULLY LOADED Honda Accord is a pretty nice car compared to a "STRIPPER", optionless BMW 320i. I never said otherwise.

My point is, I don't think BMW is going to suffer from bringing in more customers with less expensive models. A Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic or Nissan Sentra is not going to be on par with a BMW 320i any time soon. And neither is a Toyota Camry or Avalon, Honda Accord or Nissan Maxima going to be on par with a BMW 528i soon. And let me know when either of these companies has anything like the 760Li, Alpina B7 or plain old 740i to woo customers with.

To note, I'm a true automobile enthusiast and I can find something I like about EVERY car on the road. I am not a badge/brand snob and can drive any car and feel good about it. I currently own 2 Lexus' and have owned 6 since 2005. I've owned 2 BMWs. I'm not here trying to convince people to go buy a BMW.

Max707

Sal this is what I mean by for my money. This goes for the top of the line models. Like a LS460 compared to a S550 or 750 IL. I've owned new Aston Martins, MB AMG, Porsche 911's, Acura NSX, and they all are GREAT!!! Cars, but they should be when you are into the mid $100k price range. But when you are talking 5 series, E class, ES, GS, etc. mid size regular cars no real difference. The reality of America is congested roads, low speed limits and people that do not respect others property. I'm done with high performance high dollar vehicles. So that affects my opinion.

Sal Collaziano

Your reasoning for being done with high dollar vehicles is very easy to understand - making Lexus the best brand for you. I've loved all my Lexus vehicles but my 2012 LS has left me bored... If there were an exciting midsize sedan I'd be all over it but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on a GS knowing I'm going to be driving it for at least two years and it lags, to me, performance-wise. I love the interior and exterior. And the stereo system is probably amazing. Great car in every way except performance - for me...

1111GS

I think you're right about this.

This is probably what catches the public's eyes most of the time but you can't really judge the car with this iPhone picture taken from a distance. After having had this car for this many months, the back view is still my most favorite view of the car. There's def room for improvement but IMO it looks better than the Es and the 5s from this angle.

Max707

Buy a used 650 with a warranty. I'm old I understand where you are coming from. Been there done that.

jjscsix

That's exactly why I have a 550 BMW. All cars are a compromise, but for now it comes the closest at a price I can handle

Herofmine

Hope Lexus will update their engines on GS models! Can't wait for v8....
Overall Lexus makes best cars but they need to do something with their Marketing!
Test drove GS350 after my IS350 it felt like a turtle, my IS felt like a bullet and steering feel with ISF ecu was much better than GS!

Sal Collaziano

Well, I decided on a Renntech E63 AMG to fuel my automotive passion. My wife is going for a test drive of the new GS, Genesis and X5 - on Thursday. All three dealers are within a mile of one another and she's going to decide which car she wants to replace her RX350 with. It's all up to her so let's see which car she decides on...

jjscsix

Nice!

LexFather

Sal, I did not realize you were in FL? I was at Renntech a couple of months ago and will be working with them a lot on a surprise. We should have drinks.

Good luck on whatever your wife decides on!

Sal Collaziano

I want to know more about this surprise. I love drinks. In fact, I had a few tonight. Saki, as a matter of fact. And Key West this weekend. Duval Street. You might know what that means. Any time... Drinks are on me.