peteharvey

Normally, the LS model cycles are only 5 or 6 years, eg 1LS 89-95, 2LS 95-00, 3LS 00-06.
However, for the 4LS, somehow Lexus has decided to go for a 10 year model cycle? From 2006-2016?
Hence, the 2013 4.5LS had a major update with a new front and rear end, and a new dashboard.
Maybe they're using that 10 year interval to do something big?
Because the way the Germans are progressing with the forthcoming all new next generation C Class due in several months, and made of nearly 50% aluminium for over 225 lbs/100 kg less weight, and with small capacity turbochargers, Lexus has to certainly come up with something big, so I don't mind them stretching the current life cycle.
As long as Lexus become competitive with the widespread use of aluminium and small capacity turbos...


Just back to the topic of sales targets, success, and the OP's Opening Post about low sales.
The other day, I was telling SWGS13 that goals and success is a complex topic, and I don't have much time to detail.
- It is a complex topic because, on the one hand, we don't actually have to meet our goals at all, in order to be successful.
- Yet on the other hand, a person can meet their goals, yet still not be successful.
How's that for irony?
That's why goals/targets and success is a complex topic.

For example, the Hyundai Equus was released late 2010 in the USA.
Its sales target was only 2000-3000 units per year for the USA.
In 2011, it easily topped its target selling 3013 units, and by 2012, it almost doubled its target by selling nearly 4000 units [3972]!
Does this then mean that the Hyundai Equus is a super successful car in the same way as the 1989 1LS?
Why don't we all go out and buy one?
Count me out...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The difference though is that the 1LS was groundbreaking whereas the Equus is simply another nice car in a field of nice cars.

jjscsix

I don't agree. What was ground breaking about the LS was the price. Ditto the Genesis and Equus.

peteharvey

What I was trying to emphasize was, despite almost doubling its target/goals, the Equus is not necessarily success.
It is actually very debatable, till we're all blue in the face...

1111GS

Thanks for the heads up. I'm gonna take your words for it. This is not the perfect car but definitely the best for the money and some other reasons important for some. Most likely I will get it again when the refresh is in.

jjscsix

I agree with your point. But Hyundai is not stupid, they know they have a long road to find acceptance in that class. When the LS came out Toyota was already established as a quality car. Hyundai is still having to overcome negative brand perception, and they elected not to establish a separate premium brand.

SW17LS

Thats just it...its not an all new generation, its a mid-cycle refresh. Look at the little tweaks BMW just made to the 5 Series, new headlights, new taillights, slightly new bumper, and thats all.

The changes Lexus made to the LS, CT, RX, LX, GX are far more substantial than what BMW does for mid-cycle refreshes. Conservative refreshes keep resale value up...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Beside the great value that the LS400 was, it's all new 4.0L V8 and 4AT was able to take the LS400 to a top speed of 160mph and do 0-60mph in 8.3sec which bested all major competition offered by BMW and MBZ at the time. Chassis had an independent, double-wishbone suspension with an optional air suspension system. The LS boasted to have a quieter cabin than virtually any competitor on the market. Other ground breaking features included being one of the first to offer a power tilt and telescoping steeringwheel, SRS airbags, power adjustable shoulder seat belts, electro chromatic rear-view mirror, and electroluminescent gauge cluster with visual effects. Add in Toyota's reputation for reliable vehicles and first class service including Lexus picking up your LS for servicing and changing how dealers operate.



All signs point towards it but still take it with a grain of salt. GS is most likely my next car so I'm waiting intently on the full spindle version. Because of the NX and RC spotlight we haven't heard much about what's in store for the GS, but we're getting there. Agreed it's not the perfect car, but I do think it's the best all arounder and as you say best for the money.

Just to add, the 550i recieve a bump in hp from 407 to 445hp. But otherwise the volume 528i and 535i received what you listed above.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

A car like the Equus for Hyundai is not about volume (the fact that it surpasses their goal is an added benefit), what it stands for (and the Genesis to boot) is to boost Hyundai's brand image. Hyundai's still have marginal value but eventually they will have to fully shed that stigma much like Lexus has been doing lately and elevating the brand with new products, services, modern dealers (not the column and gold kind), new markets and segments. The Equus is important to Hyundai because it shows what direction Hyundai is headed.

LexFather

It is PREPOSTEROUS to compare the Equus to the LS debut for debut. Complete apples to oranges. The LS COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONIZED THE CAR INDUSTRY. The Equus Is merely an also ran and just is a good car for Hyundai, it pushed no boundaries and didn't Impact the market.

To their credit it has met their modest sales goals. As peteharvey posted the LS sold an unreal amount of cars
Initially, the Equus doesn't come close.

jjscsix

I don't agree that those specs were ground breaking. There were plenty of Mercedes and BMW's that had better performance and somewhat equal features. I knew two very wealthy guys - one traded a 560S another a BMW 750 (yes, 12 cylinder) for the Lexus.

I agree that Lexus put together a car with performance and features that were unprecedented at the price point, but they were not unprecedented. They were not ground breaking….except at the price point.

jjscsix

Maybe I'm wrong, but the articles I read on the "new" LS is that it was not a mid cycle car, it is an all new generation. I agree with your comment on the BMW. I guess it doesn't matter either way, they are what they are. I'm just very disappointed in the LS compared to the competition.

SW17LS

If you read that in articles, they were wrong (I've never read an article that said the 2013 LS is an all new car BTW). It's clearly a refresh, and was never touted by Lexus as anything but that.

The LS still holds it's own and sells well despite essentially being an 8 year old chassis/powertrain. Would it surprise you to know that the LS was essentially tied with the 7 series for second place in the segment last year? Have you driven a new LS? It's still a great car...I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

As for the original LS being groundbreaking, obviously it was. The result of its entry into the marketplace and Lexus in general (the LS is the embodiment of Lexus) is obvious. All you have to do is look at that flagship sector before the LS and after the LS to see that. Prices came down, V8 power became standard, reliability and build quality jumped, styling and switchgear became much more modern (just look at the electroluminescent gauges on EVERYTHING), Lexus brought attention to detail and precision to the forefront in a car that was just clearly better than the competition AND was cheaper.

Hyundais products aren't better, they're just cheaper. That's an important distinction. You don't hear people say "the Genesis is the best handling sport sedan under $75,000 and it's such a deal!". You don't hear people say "the Equus is the smoothest, most refined, quietest riding car that isn't a Rolls Royce and it's such a deal!". You did hear that about the LS (obviously the latter).. You don't hear about Hyundai beating anybody at their game, they merely are "pretty similar". BIG difference.

The LS was in development for many years, over a billion dollars spent, and it showed. Designed just for us, our roads, our market. The Genesis and Equus are just renamed KDM models. Different thing entirely.

You should check out www.genesisforums.com, you'll find more people there that share your viewpoint. As I've said before this is a Lexus enthusiast site. We're enthusiastic about Lexus, not Hyundai.

jjscsix

Just my opinion of the LS. I don't mean to imply its a bad car . Admittedly I'm a speed freak and a 750 is much faster than a LS.

LexFather

The 2013+ LS has over 3,000 new parts but it is really another MMC just very extensive. And in just a short month it's crystal clear to me why people love the car do much.