If the GS is so good, why are sales low?
#16
Lead Lap
iTrader: (3)
I like where you're coming from but I may tweak it a bit. Give me (and granted I'm stretching into the future a little farther):
GS200t (base turbo 4)
GS300h (base hybrid)
GS350/300t (if FI V6 rumor is true)
GS450h (new V6 hybrid powertrain 400+hp)
GS400t (if FI V8 rumor is true)
GS F
oh Lexus Gods hear my prayers
GS200t (base turbo 4)
GS300h (base hybrid)
GS350/300t (if FI V6 rumor is true)
GS450h (new V6 hybrid powertrain 400+hp)
GS400t (if FI V8 rumor is true)
GS F
oh Lexus Gods hear my prayers
#17
Blame the existence of the ES. The GS and ES fall within an inch of each other in length, and this extra offering being part of Lexus's core sedans ie IS, ES, GS, LS throws a monkey wrench in the convential light of model positions in an automakers stable ie A4, A6, A8, C, E, S, 3, 5, 7. The ES being slightly larger and priced significantly lower than the GS is the reason the ES is Lexus's best selling sedan. If it did not exist, people who out grew an IS would logically go the next step up which is the GS, alas for near the same price as an IS for increased space, utility and features the ES makes perfect sense to the overwhelming majority who are not enthusiasts unlike us on CL. Would I prefer the ES didn't exist so the GS was more popular and less the dark horse? Yes, but at the same time the fewer GS's on the road makes it that much more special. And this 4GS is truly a wonderful thing
Most people have no idea that the GS has overtaken the 5 Series as the "ultimate driving machine" because they are not enthusiasts like we are. Lexus must first get customers into the dealership instead of shopping BMW and MB. I'm sure there are many die-hard loyalists who don't even consider Lexus when shopping for this class of car. Commercials like the latest one comparing the GS with its German rivals should help, but they are few and far between.
#18
Lexus Fanatic
The reason the GS doesn't do great volume is the ES, as others have said. Look around at people driving 528s and E350s...old women, non-enthusiasts. They buy it because its a "midsize <insert brand here>". That buyer exists for Lexus too (its MOST buyers for Lexus, MB and BMW) they just buy the ES.
I know MANY people who have traded BMW 5s and MB Es for ES350s. To them they are similar cars...because they don't understand, appreciate, or utilize the benefits of a car like a 5 or E over an ES. So...if you were that buyer...why would you buy a GS?
As long as they continue to make the car...why do we care if it sells in volume? I like them being kinda rare.
Bear in mind that Lexus said when the 4GS came out their sales target was 24k units per year. They're pretty close to that.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-10-14 at 07:05 PM.
#19
While I agree with much of what you're saying, I wouldn't put Lexus and Acura together in any argument. Remember that Lexus sells very well, and continues to...the GS doesn't sell in high volume, but a lot of Lexus products do. Remember that before the tsunami in Japan, Lexus outsold BMW and MB handily in the US...and Lexus is still doing very well, MB and BMW are outselling them but they have many more models now than they used to. Acura has struggled for many years. Lexus has never struggled. Big difference.
The reason the GS doesn't do great volume is the ES, as others have said. Look around at people driving 528s and E350s...old women, non-enthusiasts. They buy it because its a "midsize <insert brand here>". That buyer exists for Lexus too (its MOST buyers for Lexus, MB and BMW) they just buy the ES.
I know MANY people who have traded BMW 5s and MB Es for ES350s. To them they are similar cars...because they don't understand, appreciate, or utilize the benefits of a car like a 5 or E over an ES. So...if you were that buyer...why would you buy a GS?
As long as they continue to make the car...why do we care if it sells in volume? I like them being kinda rare.
Bear in mind that Lexus said when the 4GS came out their sales target was 24k units per year. They're pretty close to that.
The reason the GS doesn't do great volume is the ES, as others have said. Look around at people driving 528s and E350s...old women, non-enthusiasts. They buy it because its a "midsize <insert brand here>". That buyer exists for Lexus too (its MOST buyers for Lexus, MB and BMW) they just buy the ES.
I know MANY people who have traded BMW 5s and MB Es for ES350s. To them they are similar cars...because they don't understand, appreciate, or utilize the benefits of a car like a 5 or E over an ES. So...if you were that buyer...why would you buy a GS?
As long as they continue to make the car...why do we care if it sells in volume? I like them being kinda rare.
Bear in mind that Lexus said when the 4GS came out their sales target was 24k units per year. They're pretty close to that.
I don't agree that people consider BMW 5s and M-B E's are competitors to an ES - not even close. But people trade down for a lot of reasons. I agree that as long as they keeping making them I'm fine, but that cannot be assumed, especially the GS as it is built on it's own platform, not shared with anything else (at least not in the U.S.).
#20
I totally agree. I also think it takes years for a brand to turn around perception, and despite stellar cars like the LF-A and IS-F, Lexus still has the stigma of producing solid, but conservative, rolling isolation chambers. I'm an enthusiast, and I myself moved away from Lexus until the 4GS was introduced because there were so many better drivers' cars. I only went back to Lexus because I did research, and that got me into the dealership. Seeing the car and driving it sold me.
Most people have no idea that the GS has overtaken the 5 Series as the "ultimate driving machine" because they are not enthusiasts like we are. Lexus must first get customers into the dealership instead of shopping BMW and MB. I'm sure there are many die-hard loyalists who don't even consider Lexus when shopping for this class of car. Commercials like the latest one comparing the GS with its German rivals should help, but they are few and far between.
Most people have no idea that the GS has overtaken the 5 Series as the "ultimate driving machine" because they are not enthusiasts like we are. Lexus must first get customers into the dealership instead of shopping BMW and MB. I'm sure there are many die-hard loyalists who don't even consider Lexus when shopping for this class of car. Commercials like the latest one comparing the GS with its German rivals should help, but they are few and far between.
As long as Lexus advertises the upcoming F and F-Sports correctly with media and social media they should be successful. There is also to say that connecting with the younger crowd is a key to success as the clientele/demographic is changing. But yes getting rid of that stigma is important
#21
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not saying that Acura and Lexus are direct competitors, my point is that they have both committed the same sin that put them where they are - meaning they lost what they built 25 years ago. Anyone who was into cars 25 years ago as I was knows that the Legend and Integras were huge hits for Acura.
Acura does not have any level of success as a brand. VERY different.
I don't agree that people consider BMW 5s and M-B E's are competitors to an ES - not even close. But people trade down for a lot of reasons. I agree that as long as they keeping making them I'm fine, but that cannot be assumed, especially the GS as it is built on it's own platform, not shared with anything else (at least not in the U.S.).
Two of the three didn't even know that the 5 Series is RWD and the ES is FWD. One thought that was great because it would be better in the snow. Their low end 5 series were in the mid/upper $40ks, their loaded ES350s were in the mid/upper $40ks. To them...even swap. They didn't even know there was such a thing as a GS.
These buyers aren't even shown the GS in a Lexus showroom...they are directed right towards an ES. In a BMW or MB showroom they are sold 5's and E's because the 3's and C's are too small.
As for the GS, the GS and IS are built on the same platform. The GS and IS both sell on target and well here and elsewhere. The GS isn't going anywhere.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-10-14 at 07:56 PM.
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Several Reasons:
1. ES really hurts GS sales.
2. Limited powertrain options and No performance model to elevate the GS model as a true sports sedan in the mind of the average consumer.
3. Limited inventory at dealers for desired trim packages, options and color combos. Regional packages are idiotic.
Reason i have 535i is bec of reason #3.
1. ES really hurts GS sales.
2. Limited powertrain options and No performance model to elevate the GS model as a true sports sedan in the mind of the average consumer.
3. Limited inventory at dealers for desired trim packages, options and color combos. Regional packages are idiotic.
Reason i have 535i is bec of reason #3.
#23
Lexus Fanatic
#24
Instructor
Here is my take on why GS sales are not as high as ES sale.
When I bought my Lexus GS350RWD Luxury almost everyone at work thought I had bought an ES.
This one particular coworker was particularly getting on my nerves this one occasion. She ask me how much I bought my car for. I told her MSRP was $61,600 and I bought it for $52,000. I paid $56,000 with tax and tags out the door. She told me that I got ripped off because my car could be had for about $40,000 out the door? I was like thinking WTF? how the heck did she come up with this crazy impossible number for a GS with almost every optional equipment? Then I asked her what car she thinks I drive? She replied the ES.......... I was like my car is a GS which is more higher quality and better driving than the ES. I even showed her two pictures of the ES and GS side by side and she cannot for the life of me tell the difference between the two. Basically what I am trying to say is, general non enthusiast people are so ignorant about cars that they cannot grasp the concept that the GS is a better car than an ES in quality and driving dynamics or tell the difference between the two visually. I wish Lexus have made the ES not look so similar to our GS or at least make the GS more aggressive looking. People like my fellow coworker will buy an ES because its cheaper and you basically get a nice car for less and will never upgrade to a GS because hey the ES is bigger inside and both GS, ES has a V6 engine and will not care if the car was FWD or RWD.
When I bought my Lexus GS350RWD Luxury almost everyone at work thought I had bought an ES.
This one particular coworker was particularly getting on my nerves this one occasion. She ask me how much I bought my car for. I told her MSRP was $61,600 and I bought it for $52,000. I paid $56,000 with tax and tags out the door. She told me that I got ripped off because my car could be had for about $40,000 out the door? I was like thinking WTF? how the heck did she come up with this crazy impossible number for a GS with almost every optional equipment? Then I asked her what car she thinks I drive? She replied the ES.......... I was like my car is a GS which is more higher quality and better driving than the ES. I even showed her two pictures of the ES and GS side by side and she cannot for the life of me tell the difference between the two. Basically what I am trying to say is, general non enthusiast people are so ignorant about cars that they cannot grasp the concept that the GS is a better car than an ES in quality and driving dynamics or tell the difference between the two visually. I wish Lexus have made the ES not look so similar to our GS or at least make the GS more aggressive looking. People like my fellow coworker will buy an ES because its cheaper and you basically get a nice car for less and will never upgrade to a GS because hey the ES is bigger inside and both GS, ES has a V6 engine and will not care if the car was FWD or RWD.
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Exactly. The GS is just always going to be the car for the buyer that appreciates what makes it a more dynamic and higher quality car than the ES...and those buyers are rare. If they had no ES, those buyers would buy the GS...just like they do stripped down versions of the 5 and E.
#26
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
As long as Lexus advertises the upcoming F and F-Sports correctly with media and social media they should be successful. There is also to say that connecting with the younger crowd is a key to success as the clientele/demographic is changing. But yes getting rid of that stigma is important
Last edited by GSthe4th; 04-11-14 at 01:19 AM.
#27
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
It pains me when people refer to my car as an IS or ES! Correction is quickly made, haha. Lexus is indirectly working on that though with their marketing strategy. As you say though, our type of buyer/enthusiast mindset is not the majority. The landscape is changing, however. Sport this, sport that...
#28
Moderator
iTrader: (20)
I like where you're coming from but I may tweak it a bit. Give me (and granted I'm stretching into the future a little farther):
GS200t (base turbo 4)
GS300h (base hybrid)
GS350/300t (if FI V6 rumor is true)
GS450h (new V6 hybrid powertrain 400+hp)
GS400t (if FI V8 rumor is true)
GS F
oh Lexus Gods hear my prayers
GS200t (base turbo 4)
GS300h (base hybrid)
GS350/300t (if FI V6 rumor is true)
GS450h (new V6 hybrid powertrain 400+hp)
GS400t (if FI V8 rumor is true)
GS F
oh Lexus Gods hear my prayers
#29
I kind of like the fact that GS doesn't sell as many as the rest of the crowd. I see Es, 5s, ES all day long. It's nice to drive something great and different. As for the similarity among the cars, I was encountered by this one person. He said, "you drive a GS right? That car is nice." The cars people know and value the car even when it's de-badged.