mwillser

I'm agonizing (my wife would say obsessing) over the choice between a GS-350 AWD and a Mercedes E350 4Matic. I'm a Lexus believer, since we had a great experience with our '93 ES300 for 11 years while living in Houston. But in the snowy hills and winding roads of western Massachusetts, AWD is a must, so the GS is right at the top of my list. As I'm in my mid-60s, I'm wanting every safety and driver-aiding device I can get. Looking for a luxed-up GS, not an F-Sport (the roads here are simply too bumpy).

The Mercedes has every feature I could ask for, but, well, it's a Mercedes and would likely not offer the dependability I'd get from the GS. But I have a conviction that the capabilities in the PCS system are really important.

So when I try to find a GS AWD in dealer inventory ANYWHERE (as in Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Mid-West), I NEVER see anything with PCS in stock. Each dealer I talk to says it's special-order only.

That makes me wonder: Is Lexus somehow de-emphasizing this system, out of a concern that it may not provide the safety and driver-assistance benefits in real life?

If any of you have successfully found or ordered a GS (ideally, but other Lexus models as well) with PCS and could provide me with some insights about its value (and how you were able to obtain one!), I'd really appreciate it.

And since I expect I'd have to special order the car, can anyone share their experience in negotiating?

Thanks,
Mike

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I may be wrong but unlike the Benz,the GS PCS doesn't stop the car.I think only the LS PCS actually stops the car.
The PCS in the GS gives a warning and braces you for impact it automatically tightens the front seatbelts.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

The GS PCS stops the car.

It's a rare option, 90% of people with PCS had to special order their cars. You'll have more luck finding an ES with PCS.

I would call a few local dealers and ask them to try to find the car in the States first. They can swap cars with another dealers.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Nice!
I guess only the LS has the APCS option.

APCS, right now an option for the LS and LS hybrid, gives you everything PCS does, but has a couple of big extras. Numero uno is the Driver Attention Monitor, which employs an infrared camera behind the steering wheel (see left) that literally knows where your head is at. In other words, while the PCS radar sensors and computer are watching the world ahead, this little extra is helpfully watching you.

If your face is turned away from the road when the system detects a potential collision, the Driver Attention Monitor warns you and, if necessary, gently applies the brakes. And, of course, if a collision is deemed unavoidable, the same PCS measures go into action: Brake Assist gets prepped and the seatbelts get tightened.

Finally, APCS also comes with an Active Pedestrian Detection System[4], which allows the vehicle to “see” people, thanks to four stereo cameras, as well as extra infrared technology that enhances nighttime object detection

hziemba

Mike - my situation was similar to yours - safety was priority number one.

I did a LOT of homework, and can offer some perspectives:

All the manufacturers I looked at (BMW,MB,Volvo,Lexus,Audi) that have collision prevention systems offer them as special order options, except Infiniti (part of a Technology package you can find on lots), and Subaru. The reason is simple: they are expensive, and the demand for them is not high. Dealers don't want to be stuck with loaded cars that people won't buy.

I ended up doing the order, and waiting 16 weeks. I'm glad I got PCS, BSM, and LKA, and wouldn't buy a GS without them. However, they do have their shortcomings. We also have a 2012 Volvo S80, which we ordered with all the safety options. Frankly, the Volvo system is better; it provides plenty of warning, and the alert distance can be adjusted. I've never gotten PCS to kick in, but there's only so far I'll push it. A side benefit of the collision avoidance systems with radar is the adaptive cruise control - nice!

Finding a demo to drive is next to impossible, unless you find a used one that has the functionality. Reading owner manuals online is a good way to get familiar with what the different systems do...shop manuals are better (Lexus are online, but you have to pay - a 2 day pass was like $15 or do, but well worth it).

Take what you hear about collision avoidance with a grain of salt. For example, PCS on a Lexus means different things depending on what model and year....similar for PCS vs APCS. When I was getting my 06 GS, PCS was just the radar system, yet my 13 GS, also called PCS, includes the driver monitor which uses IR cameras on the steering column to detect when the driver is not looking ahead, and triggers the alert/braking earlier - these sensors used to be associated with APCS when they were in the LS of earlier years. The 13 and later LS adds the IR cameras that look ahead, which should help, though I don't how much it does in the real world.

If you have any question feel free to ask.
Meanwhile, here are some good links.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/cr.../topicoverview
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/49/2/3
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...ggest-benefits

BTW, the MB system appears to be superior to Lexus, but MB loses in the reliability/value area. Also, the MB of 11 yrs ago may not be the MB of today.

jjscsix

I'm only 61 and feeling old. I've always known a tremendous amount about cars, but it's hard to keep up. I had no idea what the initials PCS stood for.

sydtoosic

i owned a 2013 GS F Sport fully loaded, with the PCS... and yes it does stop the car. happened to me twice. the LS has the same PCS system, IMO there's nothing advanced about the PCS in the LS as opposed to the PCS in the GS. they both do what it was designed to do.

2GSKaizen

iTrader: (1)

I can vouch for this^^^^. It really does stop the car. Also, I know what you are talking about when it comes to not being able to find cars with PCS. I'm in Omaha and we barely see them either, maybe 1 or 2 in a year of any model. If it's something you want, worth talking to the dealer to see if they have a relationship with another dealer in SoCal, or the Texas. They tend to get more PCS cars than our regions do...........but the downside is that those dealers have as many AWD cars as we do PCS cars..........almost zero, but maybe worth a shot.

hziemba

Can either of you who had the GS350 PCS kick in elaborate on the circumstances?
Did it prevent the collision?

I have had the situation where you're cruising on the highway with the radar cruise on, and the person ahead slams on the brakes. The car brakes somewhat and flashes the yellow display telling you to brake (no retraction of seat belts) - I think that's just the radar cruise normal operation, and NOT the PCS kicking in.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

My PCS almost caused 2 accidents. One time I nearly got t-boned when I was switching lanes and the other time I almost got rear ended. Both times the PCS engaged when it should not have. Both times the car came to a complete stop. Yes I may have been close to a car in front of me, but I was in full control of the car at the moment. Plus, in NY traffic you can't really keep a big distance in front of you, people will constantly cut you off. So, after a few close calls I disabled the system and never been more happy.

grayson73

My dynamic radar cruise works, but I'm wondering if the PCS works. I never get any alerts about eyes not focused on the road or beeps alerting me of imminent crash. Are the lights above the steering wheel supposed to be on?

Dkp1111

PCS stand for pre-collision system.
100% agree with SNiiP3R
@OP: Not to be disrespect, i prefer/trust myself to drive the car and control my car instead of the systems. Even the Tesla auto pilot has faulty that you cant prevent. There are too many factors on the street that might cause accidents so you should stay alerted and react instead of rely on the technology. Sometimes speed up and change lane is better than slam on the brake and get sandwiched.
But if you insisted, the combo that you looking for is really rare dealer will have to order the car for you but the discount might not be as good as the one on the lot (try to shoot for invoice price before incentives). Some dealer might ask you to put deposit down. good luck.

MustangSal

I have it. It's come in handy once or twice. The active Dynamic cruise reacts differently than pcs as the car is obviously calculating closure rate so if someone cut me off and we're both doing 70 the GS just back off or slightly brakes to make room. If I'm barreling down into a wall or something going 30 to my 60, than the dash red flags a brake banner, beeps and eventually takes over braking and seatbelt preps. The audible was enough for me to pay attention and when my braking and hands on human input took over, the pcs broke off. So I'm not sure how some people say they have issue when the system is rigged to turn it over to the driver when the inputs are greater to the human. If I purposely get the car up too close, too fast, I get the pcs brake banner again and I would only assume that so long as I'm continuing to accelerate it would defeat the car trying to brake. Much like overspeeding the adaptive cruise even though it's set to a lower speed.

So, I think pcs is a good thing. Certainly in the 2015 and I imagine beyond, is smarter and more forgiving than possibly earlier models. The intuition and trade of control is certainly not an issue I've ever had.

grayson73

I would love to test mine, but I'm too scared to barrel down into a wall or go 60 to someone's 30, or purposely get the car up too close too fast haha.

MustangSal

I mean that is a little over embellished.... I don't know when it thinks to make the alarm but if you're coming up on slower traffic pretty quickly, it goes off.