Impressed with the 4GS AWD in the snow...
01-28-14, 10:31 AM
#16
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Yup. The difference between the RX and the Jeep and the GS is going to be ground clearance...obviously the GS is a lower vehicle so north of 6-7 inches of unplowed snow the RX or the Jeep would be better...but I was very impressed.
01-28-14, 10:37 AM
#17
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I just got my AWD GS about a week ago, and there has been a lot of snowy weather since. It does not have winter tires on it, and the factory all-seasons (Michelin) aren't great on snow and ice. Especially not compared to the winter tires I had on the previous car. So I have been slipping and sliding a lot more than I would with the proper tires (which I'll have on it next winter, perhaps even sooner than that).
On the plus side that means I've been able to get a feel for the balance of the car. In the snow, it handles like a more grippy version of an RWD car. That's a good thing in my book. You can hang the tail out a bit with too much throttle, which is how it should be. I'm not sure if I'm catching it before the stability control or the center differential clutch takes action, but it has never seemed out of control at all, just fun.
When I looked at the description of the AWD system on TechInfo, I was impressed by how complex it is. There is a lot more going on with it than just progressively locking up the center diff when the wheels start to spin. For example it has algorithms that kick in specifically when just starting off, to minimize wheelspin, and another one to try to keep the car from going sideways, etc. It seems like a pretty fancy system.
On the plus side that means I've been able to get a feel for the balance of the car. In the snow, it handles like a more grippy version of an RWD car. That's a good thing in my book. You can hang the tail out a bit with too much throttle, which is how it should be. I'm not sure if I'm catching it before the stability control or the center differential clutch takes action, but it has never seemed out of control at all, just fun.
When I looked at the description of the AWD system on TechInfo, I was impressed by how complex it is. There is a lot more going on with it than just progressively locking up the center diff when the wheels start to spin. For example it has algorithms that kick in specifically when just starting off, to minimize wheelspin, and another one to try to keep the car from going sideways, etc. It seems like a pretty fancy system.
01-28-14, 11:29 AM
#18
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From reading your reply it seems your experience is opposite of the others in this thread. Perhaps I misunderstood. I realize tires make a difference. Were you using snow mode? Was it poor performing or acceptable with the Michelins? Not sure what will be on the one I test drive tonight.if I got to buy snow tires for this my wife won't be happy and that would likely kill the deal.
I just got my AWD GS about a week ago, and there has been a lot of snowy weather since. It does not have winter tires on it, and the factory all-seasons (Michelin) aren't great on snow and ice. Especially not compared to the winter tires I had on the previous car. So I have been slipping and sliding a lot more than I would with the proper tires (which I'll have on it next winter, perhaps even sooner than that).
On the plus side that means I've been able to get a feel for the balance of the car. In the snow, it handles like a more grippy version of an RWD car. That's a good thing in my book. You can hang the tail out a bit with too much throttle, which is how it should be. I'm not sure if I'm catching it before the stability control or the center differential clutch takes action, but it has never seemed out of control at all, just fun.
When I looked at the description of the AWD system on TechInfo, I was impressed by how complex it is. There is a lot more going on with it than just progressively locking up the center diff when the wheels start to spin. For example it has algorithms that kick in specifically when just starting off, to minimize wheelspin, and another one to try to keep the car from going sideways, etc. It seems like a pretty fancy system.
On the plus side that means I've been able to get a feel for the balance of the car. In the snow, it handles like a more grippy version of an RWD car. That's a good thing in my book. You can hang the tail out a bit with too much throttle, which is how it should be. I'm not sure if I'm catching it before the stability control or the center differential clutch takes action, but it has never seemed out of control at all, just fun.
When I looked at the description of the AWD system on TechInfo, I was impressed by how complex it is. There is a lot more going on with it than just progressively locking up the center diff when the wheels start to spin. For example it has algorithms that kick in specifically when just starting off, to minimize wheelspin, and another one to try to keep the car from going sideways, etc. It seems like a pretty fancy system.
01-28-14, 01:53 PM
#19
I have Bridgestone Turanza EL400's and they are terrible in snow. I have 19" wheels with 235/40/19 tires. Not a lot of choices in that size locally. Thinking about Michelin Primacy MXM4. More choices if I bump to 245/40/19. Don't know if that would be too big.
01-28-14, 02:38 PM
#20
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From reading your reply it seems your experience is opposite of the others in this thread. Perhaps I misunderstood. I realize tires make a difference. Were you using snow mode? Was it poor performing or acceptable with the Michelins? Not sure what will be on the one I test drive tonight.if I got to buy snow tires for this my wife won't be happy and that would likely kill the deal.
The AWD system does a great job providing grip to get the car moving. I've tried it with snow mode on and with it off. The difference is noticeable and is supposed to help you get rolling without wheelspin. The gas pedal in the 4GS is not touchy at all, though, so if you have a decently trained right foot from previous winter driving experience, I think you'll have no trouble at all even without using snow mode.
My reference to getting the tail to hang out is something that has only happened on purpose by giving it some stick in a turn.
I just meant that when you want to do that, it behaves a bit like a RWD car but with more acceleration. The front wheels are helping but the back loses traction first (as it should with the way the AWD system is set up).
01-28-14, 02:38 PM
#21
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From reading your reply it seems your experience is opposite of the others in this thread. Perhaps I misunderstood. I realize tires make a difference. Were you using snow mode? Was it poor performing or acceptable with the Michelins? Not sure what will be on the one I test drive tonight.if I got to buy snow tires for this my wife won't be happy and that would likely kill the deal.
This is what you have to understand about the physics at work here. The poster you referenced is in Canada. He's comparing the GS on all season tires to a previous car withwinter tires. No matter how incredible an AWD vehicle, SUV, whatever is you will never be able to overcome the fact that when it gets REALLY COLD (like in Canada, hell or everywhere right now but thats unusual) all season tires have rubber compounds that get hard, and that reduces grip.
I'd rather drive a RWD car with winter tires in a place where it gets that cold than an AWD with all season tires. That doesn't mean you will have to buy winter tires, but if you want the ultimate in winter traction you would need winter tires on ANY vehicle...the GS...an ES...a GX...a Jeep...whatever.
If you were okay in an ES with all seasons you will be more than okay in a AWD GS with all seasons.
01-28-14, 06:18 PM
#22
I agree with the above posters including SW13G and FishBike. I am getting the Bridgetone Blizzaks Lm-32 tires with my Enkei rims mounted tomorrow finally as I am less then happy with the traction of the Primacy MXM4 on snow covered roads and ice here in Michigan. This past few winters have been more snowier and colder and my experiences with Blizzaks have been phenomenal on my Audi A8L so I will do the same with the GS. Otherwise the car does do well in the snow and the snow mode helps along with the traction control which minimize slides on turns. Its fun though to have the rear end fish tail a bit.
01-28-14, 06:45 PM
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Well I pulled the trigger and gave them a deposit to hold the car. Going to be taking care of the paperwork in the next couple days. When I saw StlGasMan's comments on the Bridgestone Turanza EL400's being poor in the snow I knew what I was going to find on the car - Bridgestones.
01-28-14, 06:50 PM
#24
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Congrats! You'll love it
01-28-14, 06:56 PM
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I would like to provide some input/advice to others. I think I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm going to say, my 2013 gs350 awd( NOT f-sport) is probably one of the worst sedans I've owned in terms of snow. I live in Michigan....and this is my 3rd GS....and own multiple Lexus, as well as rival sedans to the GS currently. So id like to think I can provide an honest unbiased opinion.
I owned a 2013 Mercedes E350 4matic. It was great in the snow, did not slip and slide like the lexus. For me the real difference was, the tail of the car did not spin out anywhere near as the lexus. I believe it had continentals on it.
2013 Chrysler 300c AWD. In my opinion, the best of 3 sedans, by a decent margin. The stopping power has been excellent, and the sense of "slipping" is very minimal. It also has the v8 engine, so maybe it helps with weight...not sure.
2013 Lexus Gs 350 AWD (not f-sport). I will first of tell you, I replaced the stock Dunlops with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3. I have to say, I went with these tires, because I was having nagging ride and alignment issues, and spent a lot of money on these tires. In dry conditions, these tires are EXCELLENT. These tires have amazing reviews and highly rated ultra performance high season tires. I've consulted quite a few tire guys, everyone says, even tho these are low profile/wider tires....they are much better than the stock dunlops I had.
With that in mind, my Lexus has me very concerned about its use in winter. I'm struggling to have proper grip...constantly slipping....extreme stop lengths. I would also like to point out the weather here has been horrible(low temps and quite a bit of snow). I think the "snow" button certainly helps...but for some reason this car is not a very good winter vehicle. A lot of you I think would disagree with me, but I share this opinion based on owning and driving rival sedans to the GS.
I would like to point out, I know these tires can't provide the level of good snow traction a winter tire can...but by other sedans don't have winter tires, and I feel the traction is far superior to the lexus.
I owned a 2013 Mercedes E350 4matic. It was great in the snow, did not slip and slide like the lexus. For me the real difference was, the tail of the car did not spin out anywhere near as the lexus. I believe it had continentals on it.
2013 Chrysler 300c AWD. In my opinion, the best of 3 sedans, by a decent margin. The stopping power has been excellent, and the sense of "slipping" is very minimal. It also has the v8 engine, so maybe it helps with weight...not sure.
2013 Lexus Gs 350 AWD (not f-sport). I will first of tell you, I replaced the stock Dunlops with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3. I have to say, I went with these tires, because I was having nagging ride and alignment issues, and spent a lot of money on these tires. In dry conditions, these tires are EXCELLENT. These tires have amazing reviews and highly rated ultra performance high season tires. I've consulted quite a few tire guys, everyone says, even tho these are low profile/wider tires....they are much better than the stock dunlops I had.
With that in mind, my Lexus has me very concerned about its use in winter. I'm struggling to have proper grip...constantly slipping....extreme stop lengths. I would also like to point out the weather here has been horrible(low temps and quite a bit of snow). I think the "snow" button certainly helps...but for some reason this car is not a very good winter vehicle. A lot of you I think would disagree with me, but I share this opinion based on owning and driving rival sedans to the GS.
I would like to point out, I know these tires can't provide the level of good snow traction a winter tire can...but by other sedans don't have winter tires, and I feel the traction is far superior to the lexus.
01-28-14, 07:16 PM
#26
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I think your issues are due to your choice of tires.
As we discussed above, no drive system can make up for improper tires. The Pilot Sport A/S is a great high performance tire, but I would never select those tires if I was worried about snow traction. I would venture to say your MB and 300 were on more conventional, less high performance rubber.
Another issue is temperature. It's been SO cold, all season tires are exponentially less effective at 15 degree temps than they are at 30 degree temps. I would also question what average temps you had driven the other cars in vs the temps this winter you've driven the GS in. Even my Jeep with SUV all seasons is tail happy in this cold. In these temps you really need winter tires.
As we discussed above, no drive system can make up for improper tires. The Pilot Sport A/S is a great high performance tire, but I would never select those tires if I was worried about snow traction. I would venture to say your MB and 300 were on more conventional, less high performance rubber.
Another issue is temperature. It's been SO cold, all season tires are exponentially less effective at 15 degree temps than they are at 30 degree temps. I would also question what average temps you had driven the other cars in vs the temps this winter you've driven the GS in. Even my Jeep with SUV all seasons is tail happy in this cold. In these temps you really need winter tires.
01-28-14, 07:47 PM
#27
Well I pulled the trigger and gave them a deposit to hold the car. Going to be taking care of the paperwork in the next couple days. When I saw StlGasMan's comments on the Bridgestone Turanza EL400's being poor in the snow I knew what I was going to find on the car - Bridgestones.
01-28-14, 07:57 PM
#28
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Doubt the dealer would consider it. I am getting an employee discount so they aren't receptive to making changes. If the car is better than my current ES 350 in the snow, I'm fine. If it is worse in the snow then I got real problems with my significant other.
I've taken it on 3 test drives and am not concerned about it handling on dry or wet pavement, been happy with that. Haven't had the opportunity to drive it in snow.
I've taken it on 3 test drives and am not concerned about it handling on dry or wet pavement, been happy with that. Haven't had the opportunity to drive it in snow.
01-29-14, 06:58 AM
#29
I would like to provide some input/advice to others. I think I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm going to say, my 2013 gs350 awd( NOT f-sport) is probably one of the worst sedans I've owned in terms of snow. I live in Michigan....and this is my 3rd GS....and own multiple Lexus, as well as rival sedans to the GS currently. So id like to think I can provide an honest unbiased opinion.
I owned a 2013 Mercedes E350 4matic. It was great in the snow, did not slip and slide like the lexus. For me the real difference was, the tail of the car did not spin out anywhere near as the lexus. I believe it had continentals on it.
2013 Chrysler 300c AWD. In my opinion, the best of 3 sedans, by a decent margin. The stopping power has been excellent, and the sense of "slipping" is very minimal. It also has the v8 engine, so maybe it helps with weight...not sure.
2013 Lexus Gs 350 AWD (not f-sport). I will first of tell you, I replaced the stock Dunlops with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3. I have to say, I went with these tires, because I was having nagging ride and alignment issues, and spent a lot of money on these tires. In dry conditions, these tires are EXCELLENT. These tires have amazing reviews and highly rated ultra performance high season tires. I've consulted quite a few tire guys, everyone says, even tho these are low profile/wider tires....they are much better than the stock dunlops I had.
With that in mind, my Lexus has me very concerned about its use in winter. I'm struggling to have proper grip...constantly slipping....extreme stop lengths. I would also like to point out the weather here has been horrible(low temps and quite a bit of snow). I think the "snow" button certainly helps...but for some reason this car is not a very good winter vehicle. A lot of you I think would disagree with me, but I share this opinion based on owning and driving rival sedans to the GS.
I would like to point out, I know these tires can't provide the level of good snow traction a winter tire can...but by other sedans don't have winter tires, and I feel the traction is far superior to the lexus.
I owned a 2013 Mercedes E350 4matic. It was great in the snow, did not slip and slide like the lexus. For me the real difference was, the tail of the car did not spin out anywhere near as the lexus. I believe it had continentals on it.
2013 Chrysler 300c AWD. In my opinion, the best of 3 sedans, by a decent margin. The stopping power has been excellent, and the sense of "slipping" is very minimal. It also has the v8 engine, so maybe it helps with weight...not sure.
2013 Lexus Gs 350 AWD (not f-sport). I will first of tell you, I replaced the stock Dunlops with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3. I have to say, I went with these tires, because I was having nagging ride and alignment issues, and spent a lot of money on these tires. In dry conditions, these tires are EXCELLENT. These tires have amazing reviews and highly rated ultra performance high season tires. I've consulted quite a few tire guys, everyone says, even tho these are low profile/wider tires....they are much better than the stock dunlops I had.
With that in mind, my Lexus has me very concerned about its use in winter. I'm struggling to have proper grip...constantly slipping....extreme stop lengths. I would also like to point out the weather here has been horrible(low temps and quite a bit of snow). I think the "snow" button certainly helps...but for some reason this car is not a very good winter vehicle. A lot of you I think would disagree with me, but I share this opinion based on owning and driving rival sedans to the GS.
I would like to point out, I know these tires can't provide the level of good snow traction a winter tire can...but by other sedans don't have winter tires, and I feel the traction is far superior to the lexus.
01-29-14, 10:49 AM
#30
I dont use snow mode. Its rubbish. The engine is at 3000 rpm and your gain is equal to 1000rpm. Just fuel inefficient mode. I use eco with gentle pedaling with much better responsivness. I am not so sure about TRC though. Do you disable it? I have GS450h and its RWD and until now used it with TRC. I do have Nokia H R here. In Sweden they are regarded as one of the best friction tires.