SW17LS

My wife is away for the weekend, so I decided to go down to Tysons Corner and walk around the mall for a while this afternoon. I thought about swinging by a Caddy dealer and looking at a new CTS, but I hate to bug car dealers on a weekend when I'm not a buyer.

As luck would have it, Cadillac was at the mall with several new models open for people to look at, one of them was the new CTS. It was a Silver Coast Metallic (beige) on Cashmere interior 3.6 AWD base model with upgraded wheels and navigation. Sticker price was $59,815, so the same as my Luxury Package AWD GS. Color combo on this car was awful.




Outside is very attractive in person, love the brushed metal trim, very different. Upgraded wheels were excellent. The styling really works, its unmistakably a Cadillac, and looks very smooth and modern.

Inside, I was underwhelmed compared to the GS. Design is good, materials are quite good for the most part. There are some truly beautiful touches, real brushed metal door handles, the beautiful brushed metal paddle shifters, nice chrome trim, nice wood trim. The door panels and dash are stitched leather/leatherette with suede accents which are very sharp. Caddy uses a retro frameless rearview mirror which is really sharp, very modern slim side mirrors look great but I would be concerned about visibility, height of the glass area is maybe 3.5 inches.

The issue was much of the interior still has a parts bin GM feel. When it comes to the quality of little things like the engine start button, turn signal stalks, headlight switchgear, they feel like they're out of a Chevy Impala. Overhead console is the same way, inexpensive feeling shiny plastic (and no sunglass holder a'la Lexus), the trim work around the auto wiper sensors and such at the top of the windshield are nowhere near as refined as on the GS, cheap black plastic and huge.

Seat leather is a significant downgrade from the Luxury package GS, and detailing around the side/switch area is nonexistent vs the nice switchgear and trim panels on the GS. No multi-contour seats. These things are optional, but this car is priced exactly where the Luxury model GS is which has these features.

This car had the stock Buick-esque gauge cluster which we have discussed earlier.

The overall feel of the front is cramped compared to the GS mainly because of the waterfall style center stack vs the more horizontal layout of the GS.

Rear seat room feels about the same as the GS, but the rear seat area is nowhere near as well detailed, the cushion is thin and carpeting comes up around it, and the pull down armrest is nowhere near as premium feeling as it is in the GS.

Overall, I was very underwhelmed. I still want to drive the car, but based on the interior alone there is no way I would purchase a CTS over the GS at the same price point, it easily felt like it should have been a $10,000 cheaper car. I'm sure additional option packages with the better seating, better leather, virtual gauge cluster, etc would address many of my concerns, but then we'd be talking about $70,000...and even with those upgrades I just don't feel this is a $70,000 car, as I don't feel a GS is either. They had a Maserati Ghibli over at the other mall which was stickered at $76k. If I'm spending $70k, whats another $6k for a freakin Maserati?

Please discuss...

Trek

Couldn't agree with your more. However, the 2014 CTS Vsport with the Twin Turbo smoked the GS F-Sport in a test I saw on YouTube. With over 400 ponies, it accelerated a full second faster--the mid-4.0's, and was a superior driving experience on a road track. Of course, that particular Twin Turbo version priced out somewhat higher than a F-Sport GS, but not crazy higher, only about 6K higher! CTS Vsport = 59.9K vs F-Sport = 53K

See it here:
If I wasn't prejudiced against Cadlllac, I would get the Vsport and trade in my 4GS. Lexus must add 50-75 HP to the F-Sport version, and an additional 100lb ft of torque. When I went shopping for my Lexus (my first time ever in a Lexus showroom), I couldn't understand why the F-sport had the same engine as the non-F-Sport. That didn't make sense to me. No way was I wasting extra dough on an uglier Lexus GS (I admit to not liking the F-sport front end) that wasn't any quicker than the Premium/Luxury GS. But had the F-Sport come with a much more powerful engine than the Premium/Luxury, I might very well have accepted the F-Sport's less attractive looks and picked one up. Lexus needs to differentiate the two by giving them different engines. Put a Twin Turbo or something in the F-Sport. If Lexus can't beat the Caddy competition, well....shame on them.

5thavenue

I haven't sat in a full production model of the new CTS so I'm not sure how much has changed, but over a year ago I spent a few days with one during a vehicle check and I wasn't impressed at all. Overall, many of the interior pieces seemed very cheap cheap and I wasn't too keen on the infotainment portion of the car. It looked to me like they were trying too hard and were pushing more towards a futuristic look than an elegant, rich look. It wasn't hard for me to believe that this car was made by GM. It was also the first time that I've ever used the Cue system and I definitely agree with almost all reviewers that it is absolute garbage.

jtrue28

I thought the CTS was in the IS class...

And where are you seeing F-Sports for $53K????

SW17LS

They've moved the CTS upmarket with this generation, it now squares directly with the GS.

Trek

The ATS is in the IS class. Watch the video in my post above. They show the specs and prices. It's Motor Trend.

thISguy350

when i was looking at my options when it came to luxury cars i had the dimensions of the vehicle in my number 1 concern. the cts is not for a family imo. just the rear seat leg room alone is about 1.5 inches in the GS. for people that have families, lexus is great, for people that want speed and a better handling, cadillac is the way to go. i mean 400hp is amazing and for almost the same price as a loaded GS F-Sport why not go with moar pooooowwwaaaaa. these are my $.02's

cts dimensions:
Exterior Measurements
WIDTH 6 ft. 0.2 in. (72.2 in.) HEIGHT 4 ft. 9.2 in. (57.2 in.)
LENGTH 16 ft. 3.5 in. (195.5 in.) FRONT TRACK 5 ft. 1.4 in. (61.4 in.)
REAR TRACK 5 ft. 1.7 in. (61.7 in.) WHEEL BASE 9 ft. 6.6 in. (114.6 in.)
Interior Measurements
FRONT HEAD ROOM 39.2 in. FRONT HIP ROOM 53.8 in.
FRONT LEG ROOM 42.6 in. FRONT SHOULDER ROOM 56.9 in.
REAR HIP ROOM 53.3 in. REAR HEAD ROOM 37.5 in.
REAR LEG ROOM 35.4 in. REAR SHOULDER ROOM 54.8 in.
Engine & Performance
BASE ENGINE SIZE 2.0 L CAM TYPE Double overhead cam (DOHC)
CYLINDERS Inline 4 VALVES 16
VALVE TIMING Variable TORQUE 295 ft-lbs. @ 3000 rpm
HORSEPOWER 272 hp @ 5500 rpm TURNING CIRCLE 37.1 ft.

Lexus GS dimensions:
Horsepower: 306 hp @ 6,400 rpm[*]
Torque: 277 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm[*]
Type:Five-passenger luxury sport sedan
Construction:Welded-steel unibody
Overall Length: 190.7 in (4,845 mm)
Width: 72.4 in (1,840 mm)
Height: 57.3 in (1,455 mm)
Wheelbase: 112.2 in (2,850 mm)
Trunk Capacity: 14.3 cu ft (405 L)
Curb Weight: 3,795 lb (1,685 kg)
Fuel Tank: 17.4 gal (66 L)
Headroom (front/rear) 38.0/37.8 in
Legroom (front/rear) 42.3/36.8 inches (965/960 mm)
Shoulder Room (front/rear) 57.3/55.7 in (1,455/1,415 mm)
Hip Room (front/rear) 54.5/54.1in (1,385/1,375 mm)

thISguy350

a fully loaded cts v sport is around $70k and leases for $724 per month for 48 months and it needs almost $8k drive off. you might as well get a new CTS-V

thISguy350

yeah, you can get a 2014 CTS-V Sedan fully loaded for almost the same price as the CTS V-Sport. i really wish that lexus would do this type of leveling when it came to the power of the car. GS350 non f sport 300hp, f sport 400hp, GS F 500+hp. that would be amazing. plus it would keep up with the competition giving the enthusiast a true set of options

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

GM has had gaudy cheap plastic trim in their higher priced vehicles for years.Today's Cadillac and Buick vehicles aren't any different.

SW17LS

The CTS is actually larger than the GS in most dimensions (actually 5 inches longer with a 2 inch longer wheelbase), and at the worst the same in others. So the argument that the CTS is not for a family but the GS is makes no sense. I don't see how my GS would be my choice if it was going to be used a lot for hauling a family around.

Dimensions

Width:
GS: 72.4"
CTS: 72.2"

Legnth:
GS: 190.7"
CTS: 195.5"

Height:
GS: 57.3"
CTS: 57.2"

Wheelbase:
GS: 112.2"
CTS: 114.6"

Front Headroom:
GS: 38"
CTS: 39.2"

Front Legroom:
GS: 42.3"
CTS: 42.6"

Rear Headroom:
GS: 37.8"
CTS: 37.5"

Rear Legroom:
GS: 36.8"
CTS: 35.4"

As for rear legroom, by the numbers the 4GS has more rear legroom than my old 2010 ES, but I can tell you in practice the GS is FAR tighter in the back than the ES, possibly because the front seats are bigger. I sat in the CTS, its at least AS spacious as the GS in the rear.

Vladi

See I completely disagree with this. I do not believe in 500hp/5000lbs/Family car, that's why I never ever warmed up to any M5/M6GC, E-AMG/S-AMG, RS6/RS7. I see no point in muscle cars that can take you fast from light to light and drink gas like there is no tomorrow. They are not sports cars by any means nor will they ever be. I do not condone the existence of RS/AMG/M/F/V cars, they should exist cause they are the crown for the series range and they are manufacturers and owner's bragging rights. But other than that they have no purpose whatsoever or my perception of thrill is somewhat different.

I believe in a good four door and sports car next to each other in your garage combo

There is so much to a four door than horsepower and engine and that is something you start to experience once you drive the car. Like why is 2014 CTS dashboard so deep once again and windshield glare is still present, or why does the interior still feel like its 2006 instead of 2013 despite quality materials, why are fans too hissy and noisy at the highest settings and so on.
I am not discrediting CTS here, its a good car but just not good as GS with luxury package no matter the engine. Its the whole package that counts, whole experience.

My post might sound radical but that's how I feel things. I would pick GS300h over any high horsepower four door sedan including F/V/AMG/etc variants.
.

SW17LS

Thats the thing...this isn't a "family car". This is a midsize luxury sport sedan, if one wants a family car the ES is the better Lexus by far, the back of the GS is very cramped. This car is not designed to haul you and your kids around, its designed to give the driver the best overall driving experience possible while still maintaining a certain level of practicality.

In the Cadillac lineup that car is the XTS, in the Lexus lineup that car is either the ES or LS depending on your budget. I've had the ES, GS & LS...there is overlap, for instance I think my GS rides down the highway more comfortably than an ES (not an LS), but the difference in goal is clear when you drive all three cars. If I were really concerned about needing to drive 5 or even 4 people around regularly, I would not have bought the GS.

While I obviously agree with you about the GS being the better all around car for interior comfort and appearance given what I posted above after sitting in the CTS, the GS needs more power and more engine options, thats just the bottom line. At BMW, you could buy a 4cyl 528...and someone could buy an M5 or a 550. You can't do that at Lexus, and thats a problem.

SW17LS

Wife is still out of town so I was tooling around today and drove through an auto mall, to my surprise the Cadillac dealer was open. So, I went in and lo and behold they had a 2014 CTS demo there, they threw me the keys and let me take it out for myself on a little test spin.

The car was black with a grey interior and the matte finish wood, 2.0T model with the luxury package, sticker was $55k. This car also had the upgraded 18" wheels as the car I sat in at the mall did. Interior thoughts were more or less the same, a little better on this one I think because it was a better color, and the matte finish wood is very unique, does a lot for the interior IMHO.

Anyways, I drove it around for a few blocks, took it out on the highway for a few miles and turned around and came back.

Its a very nice car, rides nicely albeit firmer than the GS. The 2.0T is VERY peppy, I was impressed. Easily as peppy as the 3.5L GS, both around town and WOT accelerating on the highway to pass. Lexus absolutely must bring a small turbocharged engine to their lineup, thinking about what an engine like this could do for say, the IS250, the possibilities of any entry level engine on the GS, the new RX, etc. Engine was very refined, not quite as refined as the V6 in the GS, but it never felt like a 4 banger. If I were buying a CTS I would give serious consideration to the 2.0T over the 3.6. I haven't driven the 3.6 in the CTS obviously, but have in the XTS and ATS.

The CUE system is just as finicky as it was in the XTS and ATS I drove, standard gauges still suck.

I then got back in the GS and drove the same stretch of road as that was my route home. The GS is more comfortable, better seats, better interior I feel, better ride, while still being just as nimble feeling.

The CTS is a very nice car, but IMHO its significantly overpriced. In my rambling around today I also stopped by a BMW dealer and saw the new refreshed 5 series. They were closed, and all I could do was look in the windows but a loaded M Sport 535 X Drive is $69k, beautiful nappa leather, the great new M Sport steering wheel, beautiful trim inside. I can look at that car and understand why someone might pay $10,000 more than I paid for my GS for it...but I just cannot sit in or look at the CTS and see why someone would pay $70,000 for one equipped like that beautiful $70k M Sport 535. I know, the V Sport model has power more similar to the 550, but I just don't care, the 535i has PLENTY of power, and to me the tangibles and intangibles of the BMW vs a CTS for the same money are impossible to ignore...as are the benefits of the GS @ $10k less than both.

Trek

On a basic level, I agree with Vladi. Why does anyone need 400hp, 500hp, etc. to drive around city streets and suburban highways in the US of A? It's almost ridiculous. This isn't Germany. There is no autobahn. However, I also see SW13GS' point: Lexus is in competition with BMW, Audi, etc. And if the competition differentiates engines, Lexus may have to at least consider doing the same.

Then again, Lexus may have already decided for the GS sports sedan, that engine differentiation within the same model (GS) is not the Lexus way. Personally, I would put more HP into the F-Sport. Maybe not 400HP, but maybe 350, with the non-F-Sport at 306. Had they done that, I would've gotten an F-Sport (I wouldn't have minded a bit more power). With the same engine, it didn't make much sense to me to pay extra for the F-Sport AWD instead of the non-F-Sport AWD. Basically, you're paying for a less attractive bumper (my opinion) without fog lights.