TomMartin

Nope...just the two of us...and we fill up the trunk, a clothes bar in the back seat and just about any open space with "stuff" for about a month of travel. Back seat space is for teenage grandkids occasionally when NOT on a trip. We do not want next class down in size.

I agree about the Toyota reliability. LAst Land Cruiser went over 200K miles b4 sold at 10 year,,,current LC at 140K and still "like new" I did just have all four brakes replaced...which is when I had a GS loaner at the Lexus garage...got all this started.

BTW...there is a place between being a boy racer purist...and just wanting firm handling in daily driving and not wanting being a Towncar jockey. Still curious...if there is compatible larger diameter sway bars and upgraded stocks that would fit an ES??? Seems like the GS thread has a "suspension" sub-heading but no one on ES thread is talking about suspension...maybe I should take that as an omen?? I do also like keeping track of gas mileage...opps age showing.

Thanks...Tom

GM11

I have driven the ES on loaner and agree there is no comparison. Nothing wrong with the ES it is a fine car. But it is like driving a sofa and it is designed that way on purpose. Huge relief to get back in the GS and get that emotion and connection back with the road. Wife agrees, it is a much classier car.

GS way better seats, proper leather, much better interior materials, better camera, S+ mode, touch gas release, power trunk (Canada), better navi/display, better acceleration, mighty roar when accelerating like it wants to be unleashed (ES slides on front wheels and wails unhappily like you're being a very naughty driver), GS proper parking sensors, etc etc.

ES is a bit quieter, less road noise (comparing with the same MXM4 tires), smooth ride, absorbs the bumps really nicely with zero drama.

Afrosheen

Just get a slightly softer GS. The F Sport is tighter with bigger wheels (and more rubber on them, staggered fitment). If you get a normal GS with the Lux package you'll get what you want. Drive them back to back at the dealership and let your rump decide. The F Sport may not be the ideal long range cruiser, it's designed to carve corners in style. Also the Luxury package has some nice wood, fog lights, and some other options the F doesn't get. Still though....I wouldn't trade my Cabernet interior for anything.

Kajn

I am also new to this forum and it's my second reply thus far. In Sept I test drove the ES then the GS. I purchased the ES and by the time I got it home (10 miles away) I knew I purchased the wrong car. Called the salesman and brought it back the next day and got the GS. The GS was and is the better car for me as I could instantly tell the difference in the RWD from the FWD the minute I got the car on the Interstate. The light weight feel of the FWD and a couple of other things I knew I had to have the GS. I've not regretting the return of the ES and totally loving my GS. I have only had it for 3 weeks and loving the Liquid Platinum ext color with the light grey-ish interior among a ton of other things. I feel so much better driving the GS than the ES. No regrets here! Good luck!

MichaelPea

Hi Tom. I also was torn between the two but was drawn to the GS as I owned the previous body style and really liked it. I can only say that I'm a a consulting engineer and I spend quite a lot of time on the road to various work sites and have logged over 26,000 miles on my GS in the year that i've owned it. A fair amount of that time was spent on trips exceeding several hundred miles and required 5-6 hours of driving. I had an ES loaner for one those trips and have used the ES loaner on a number of shorter trips. There simply is no way to compare the two cars. Like you, i'm not a boy racer but like to be comfortable and capable too. While the ES leans a great deal more to the comfort side, it seems lacking in capability compared to my GS. I did not buy the F Sport package and bought the Lux package as I tend to want my cars to be as comfortable as possible while maintaining a good road manners. I got exactly what I bargained for. My car is a dream on the highway even when the weather isn't because of the AWD system. It's no competition for Audi's AWD system but it's more than capable and I've driven it through some pretty nasty stuff in the Lake Erie snow belt area. The ES loaner, not so much. It is capable in inclement weather but definitely lacks the chops of the AWD GS. The ride has been smooth but not floaty, the handling is crisp but not so much that it becomes annoying, and the power is there when you want or need it. Great car! As far as amending the ES to improve it's handling, I just don't have a clue as I've never owned an ES.

RNM GS3

This thread shows that even people on a Lexus forum cross-shop the GS and ES, i can only imagine how the general public decides.

No wonder GS sales are horrendous.

TomMartin

Thanks Kajn...I had to laugh...that sounds like something I have done. Very helpful comments. I tend to keep my vehicles for around 10 years and want to make the right choice. Will have to go drive each on a bit longer test drive...back to back with my wife along. ONly problem is if we get a GS I have to figure out how to get her to move to the Land Cruiser and let me have the GS Thanks Tom

TomMartin

Thanks Michael...wow 26K in a year. You must "know" the GS well by now. Your comment and the previous one are the input I was seeking...bad news is I may have to start justifying and extra $10-$15K. I also would "need" the AWD for our winter driving. I do not mind FWD in the winter but do not wish to return to the days of RWD on snow and ice. Also makes you much more secure in bad weather on freeway driving. Wonder if the AWD is similar to the Land Cruiser AWD...always on without any particular notice that it is engaged. LC AWD is fantastic...had it on glaze ice a few times on the freeway and the only real issue would have been stopping...it tracked extremely well.

My wife and I just sold our Harleys and ended 15 years of MC touring...maybe that is my "rationale" on why I need a GS! Move from NC touring to GS touring. Need some more seat time in each...back to back...to get a better comparison.

Thanks...Tom

TomMartin

Is this accurate? I got the feeling that the dealer had many ES 2913 left but not many 2013 GS left?

Perhaps there is some aggressive YE pricing on the GS?

As I read this site it appears Lexus pricing varies a quite a bit by region? My dealer appears somewhat reasonable...on an '13 ES he started at "invoice" hr quoted at $41,680 on MSRP of $44,063 and then said there is a lease/finance "incentive" of $1,000. I did a KBB and actually got it to match the MSRP exactly and KBB said invoice sb $41,134...$546 less than the dealer. I would finance to get the $1,000 and likely pay off...he says they ask 3 payments but said you can payoff after one payment.

Thus $44,063 MSP for net of $40,680...7.68% discount off MSRP. They have a pretty good stock of 2013 ES and part of me says this late in year the price could be a bit better. Our problem here in Minneapolis is that both dealers...St Paul and Mpls are owned by the same ownership. Not sure how far I would have to go to do any comparison shopping?

Thanks...Tom

BarrettF77

They best way to see it is if you think the ES is the better vehicle, more power to ya.

Eco mode on the F Sport model is very comfy and the car rides smoothly. Whether that is also attributed to my upgrading the tire size by one from the factory and going with a stiffer sidewall, I doubt. But either I'm a minority or the car rides very easily in eco/normal mode.

Sevn86

Im glad you brought up this question and thread Tom. We are also thinking about getting either a ES or GS. Ive test driven both also. I think for us its more the price difference between the two then anything else. Im actually leaning towards the GS350 F-sport. We plan to wait it out till December or January to get the best deal.

zicogold

Drove the ES when buying and there is no comparison between it and and the GS. The GS is a much better ride in every way. The question I have is the ES a worthy step up to the Avalon? I used to own an Av and have soft spot for terrific car. I see about a 50-50 split of ES and Avalons on the road here. The styling of the Av seems to be popular and I always expect to see George Jetson at the wheel when an Avalon pull up beside me.

TomMartin

Barrett...I clearly understand the GS is a more capable/finished out and "sportier" vehicle...my primary question is the relative "value" for my desires and use. NO question if both were priced the same I would want a GS w/AWD...still not so sure about F Sport as I have not seen or driven one yet.

Thanks...Tom

TomMartin

Sevn86...I am also leaning toward a GS...have not seen or driven an F Sport yet so not sure if that is an option I would like.

So you think the 2014s will not be priced "right" until Dec/Jan? I tried to ask dealer when he would match 2013 pricing on a 2014 but he kind of ignored the question.

Dealer on '13 ES is currently at "invoice" less $1,000 finance incentive///about 7.7% off MSRP with the $1.000 incentive. I would pay off after one payment which the dealer says is OK. Probably similar "deal" percentage wise on a GS?

My guess is they would go a little more but my Lexus dealer has no competition within a few hundred miles...they own both Mpls and St Paul dealerships.

What have you found regarding 2013 and 2014 pricing? Thanks...Tom

OKSTANCE

ES should only be an option if price is a big factor
otherwise this should be a IS vs GS conversation since the ES isnt up to par with either of these