BOBFSPORT

+1 Audis still experience this issue because they mount their engines so far forward the weight is over the front axle and wheels. Every modern Audi i have driven still feels nose heavy.

keyframe13

But the Tl competitor is ES and ES share Avalon's platform
I would think that Gs is competing with RLX rather than TL

1111GS

RL/X may be priced near the GS but IMO there is no competition between the two. Maybe in the past but not the case anymore.

Stew4HD

Why isn't the RLX a competitor of the GS? It is closer to the LS?

lithe

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Well looky here! Where was the IS? Not trying to be a jerk, but Acura does compete...not very well in that test though, ha!

I agree, it gets tricky with FWD at a certain power point. But I wouldn't assume that RWD>FWD just on layout alone, it completely depends on the mission of the car. Honda/Toyota are known great FWD engineering (Integra, Celica) and if anyone can make it work, they can.

Also Bob, the nose-heavy Audis have been doing very well lately. Winning just about every comparo their in. I used to think the same about them, but they've clearly improved.

I'm not sure where the ES fits then. IMO, the TL is clearly more sporty. Maybe the TSX? The TSX is significantly smaller I think, but their prices kinda match.

I guess you might say the GS competes with both the TL & the RLX?

Does anyone know when Lexus/Acura/Infiniti will come out with blown six cylinder engines? Seems like a few owners on here wish the GS had a bit more power...

SW17LS

Actually you made my point for me. That test is from 2009. That is 4 years ago, you have to go back 4 years to find a comparison test that includes Acura. Look at all the recent comparisons involving the GS and IS, no Acuras.

And in that test...where you had to go back 4 years (5 model years as those were 2009 model year cars, we're comparing 2014 models now)...the Acura lost...and that was when it was all new going up against cars that had been around for some time.

Acura just doesn't run in the same circles as these cars, its a different buyer. Someone looking for a $55k-$60k GS doesn't consider a $38k TL.

As for where is the IS? In 2014 its beating all the cars in that group...just did in the latest C&D test. Since the TL is still the same car that lost back in 2009...it would still loose today.

Acura would like to say it competes with the RLX, but the RLX is larger and less sporty.

The GS just DOES NOT compete with the TL. People do not cross shop the two and the TL is significantly cheaper. You can pretend it does, but it is a significant class below the GS in layout, drivetrain, design, quality & price. I considered the TL back when I was driving the ES, but would never consider one as an alternative to a GS, 5 Series, E Class, A6, etc.

Stew4HD

The loaded TL goes in the low $50s, just so you know.. you can believe what you want.. The TL is in the class, like it or not. What does it matter anyway? There are no set rules as to what car goes in what class. The TL is classified as a luxury sports sedan.. it is what it is

SW17LS

Acura.com

TL Starts at $35,905.

Fully loaded SH-AWD Advance model is $46,280 with destination...not the "low 50s".

The GS STARTS, RWD with no options at $48,145 w/dest...$12,240 more than a base TL, and in fact $2,000 more than a totally loaded AWD TL. The AWD GS STARTS at $50,695 w/dest. You know as well as I do you can't really buy a AWD GS for an MSRP of less than $55k as a minimum option package, bottom line the GS is around $10k more than the TL.

The TL is not in the same class as the GS, its in the same class as the ES. Look at the websites and build the cars for yourself. ES starts at $37,265 w/destination and loaded is $46,495. Clearly the Lexus that competes with the TL is the ES, not the GS. The TL fully loaded approaches the price where the cars in this class begin, there is no argument for saying its in the same class as the GS, 5, E & A6.

Now, the RLX starts at $49,345 and loaded is $61,345. Clearly in the same price class of these cars. Does Acura consider the TL and RLX in the same class? No.

lithe

SW13GS, thanks for pointing out that the TL lost. I missed that in my post.

My point was, that unlike what you said, Acura's products do compete with Lexus & the Germans. Perhaps you wouldn't consider an Acura, but others do. Your opinions are difficult to entertain when you're so obtuse.

So...TL & ES? I guess so. But, IMO, the ES is very luxury oriented whereas he TL is more sporty.

The new IS is kicking butt, I like it!

The new RLX is Acura's largest offering, but really still mid-size and not LS/7 series/ S class category. I'm looking forward to the release of the eSH-AWD version, perhaps it'll be more sporty? Kinda like Lexus with the Premium vs F Sport trims on the GS.

I like your stable of cars SW13GS, my compliments!

Stew4HD

ROFL, it sure seems to hurts some feelings on here.. Too funny.. ruffling feathers is fun.

Sadly, some people think PRICE is the ONLY thing makes a car... I call that pretentious

SW17LS

Then why don't automotive journalists include Acuras in their comparison tests when they are looking at Lexus, BMW, Mercedes & Audi? Infiniti is the same way, although they have little more credibility when it comes to the G & M.

People do not cross shop a $45,000 TL with a $60,000 Lexus and a $65,000 BMW. Its a class below.

I agree but pricewise the comparison is undeniable.

The RLX is kind of a weird in betweener, sort of like the Cadillac XTS. Its too big to really compete with the midsized sport/luxury sedan crowd, and not capable of competing with the fullsized cars. When you consider that both the RLX and the XTS are FWD the comparisons are even more clear.

Thanks.

Its not to denigrate the TL, the TL is a good car and is a very good seller, but it is not in the same class as the GS.

Anyone with even a cursory understanding of business and markets understands that manufacturers compete in specific categories. For instance, someone does not shop for $350 Allen Edmonds shoes alongside a $95 pair of Rockports.

There are categories at play here, and manufacturers design and position their products to compete with other manufacturer's products in certain price, style, and utility categories. The TL and GS are not in the same category. The GS is 25% more expensive than the TL, they cannot possibly be in the same category.

The difference is not only the price, but the price is because of the difference. The GS is RWD, it has a dedicated platform, more sophisicated suspension setup, better quality materials inside and out, more available features and options. Its a more expensive car and does not compete with the TL, which is a cheaper car. Not to say anything negative about the TL, its just a class below. As the ES is, as the 3 series is, as the C class is.

My feathers aren't ruffled, but you're just flat out wrong about the prices of these cars (which I obviously proved) and how they compete with one another.

1111GS

Maybe in Acura's wildest dream. Nothing personal, it's been a long tired day... I just need a good laugh.
Every car is different and Acura and Lexus are no exception. They are very different vehicles. I personally would not buy any Acura over Lexus similar or not. I like Honda and Acuras but they are ...well different from Lexus. The Acura sedans are not that much more than its brother/sister Honda sedan. Definitely nicer but not nice enough to justify the price tags. But then what do I know?!

Stew4HD

*snicker snicker*

Stew4HD

You obviously want to turn this into a pissing match because I have infringed on your beloved Lexus worshipping.

If it makes you sleep better to think this way, go for it, pat yourself on the back and smile in the mirror.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Stew, looking at the last few posts it is you that is stirring the pot.

In case you missed it, THIS IS A LEXUS FORUM and you can expect people to have a brand bias.

If you're here to learn and contribute - welcome. If you're here to talk about Acura and other brands, try our Car Chat forum. THIS specific subforum is for 4GS owners and enthusiasts.

If you are here to simply "ruffle feathers" because you find it fun you can expect to be asked to leave in pretty short order.