Looking to move to an F-Sport from a TL SH-AWD
06-24-13, 01:27 PM
#61
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No offense but you sound like a funboy.
Acording with Acura website TL's competitors are G class 3 class and ES
According with Lexus website ES's competitors are Acura TL, G class, 3 class and C class
I tent to believe that those manufacutures know better who their competitors are rather than you.
Comparing TL with IS is funny. I come from a TL and IS is junk comparing with TL. Definitely not the same class.
Acording with Acura website TL's competitors are G class 3 class and ES
According with Lexus website ES's competitors are Acura TL, G class, 3 class and C class
I tent to believe that those manufacutures know better who their competitors are rather than you.
Comparing TL with IS is funny. I come from a TL and IS is junk comparing with TL. Definitely not the same class.
Then you go by what the brands mention, which is fine, but a singular point of reference.
Really the IS is junk to the TL? That is your opinion most no one shares. The IS is a RWD vehicle based off the GS and offers a 416hp V-8 in the IS F. While size might be different, they are priced and are compared sometimes. Even if they are not compared, they are the same class, priced similar and built to similar levels. Some prefer the TL, some the IS, I am not going to discuss if one is better than the other since both are solid and have pros and cons in the same class.
Sorry if that ruffled your feathers
BTW the new IS just won a comparo against the 3 series and ATS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
06-24-13, 01:37 PM
#62
Lexus Test Driver
So you start your post calling me a fanboy. Great job there.
Then you go by what the brands mention, which is fine, but a singular point of reference.
Really the IS is junk to the TL? That is your opinion most no one shares. The IS is a RWD vehicle based off the GS and offers a 416hp V-8 in the IS F. While size might be different, they are priced and are compared sometimes. Even if they are not compared, they are the same class, priced similar and built to similar levels. Some prefer the TL, some the IS, I am not going to discuss if one is better than the other since both are solid and have pros and cons in the same class.
Sorry if that ruffled your feathers
BTW the new IS just won a comparo against the 3 series and ATS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
Then you go by what the brands mention, which is fine, but a singular point of reference.
Really the IS is junk to the TL? That is your opinion most no one shares. The IS is a RWD vehicle based off the GS and offers a 416hp V-8 in the IS F. While size might be different, they are priced and are compared sometimes. Even if they are not compared, they are the same class, priced similar and built to similar levels. Some prefer the TL, some the IS, I am not going to discuss if one is better than the other since both are solid and have pros and cons in the same class.
Sorry if that ruffled your feathers
BTW the new IS just won a comparo against the 3 series and ATS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
It might win with the IS350 but lost with IS250 with the same cars. Performance wise I see BMW is faster and has better gas mileage.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
Looking at your title I meant Lexus fanatic not funboy. You sound like a fanatic
)
Last edited by keyframe13; 06-24-13 at 01:50 PM.
06-24-13, 03:11 PM
#63
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that's with taxes and all the other fee charges. its a big rip off how they charge us more here. plus I hate the rule that you cant buy any car from the states that is less than one year.
I would have bought my 4runner and the gs 350 in the states if I could. better option than in Canada.
I would have bought my 4runner and the gs 350 in the states if I could. better option than in Canada.
06-24-13, 03:14 PM
#64
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Posts: n/a
Again, it's the same class in your head.. It's like saying that you know better than Lexus who their competitive competitors are. I have an IS250 and it's super flimsy and cheap overall comparing with the TL which was a solid and build like a tank car. Two totally different class. Again Lexus and acura knows better than your tables.
It might win with the IS350 but lost with IS250 with the same cars. Performance wise I see BMW is faster and has better gas mileage.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
Looking at your title I meant Lexus fanatic not funboy. You sound like a fanatic)
It might win with the IS350 but lost with IS250 with the same cars. Performance wise I see BMW is faster and has better gas mileage.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
Looking at your title I meant Lexus fanatic not funboy. You sound like a fanatic
)And I'm a car fanboy, and kind of know some things
06-24-13, 03:40 PM
#65
Lexus Test Driver
So based on your antecedal evidence somehow you are right and I am wrong? They are the same class, the same price and I'm sorry this upsets you. And you are one of the few saying the Tl is built like a Tank compared to a Lexus but if that is your view that is fine.
And I'm a car fanboy, and kind of know some things
And I'm a car fanboy, and kind of know some things
Last edited by keyframe13; 06-24-13 at 03:49 PM.
06-24-13, 04:02 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
I think the issue that Acura has always had is just that people don't seem to cross shop their cars alongside Lexus, Audi, BMW & Mercedes. I've driven the TL many times, all the successive generations. I would never even go look at one when shopping at the level of the GS...and I didn't. I drove it back when I was looking at the ES, and yes its a good drivers car but it lacks the refinement of the Lexus, and its a little too "tomorrowland" inside and outside for me.
A TL is just absolutely in no way a GS competitor, whether they are the same size or not. By that logic is an Accord a GS competitor too?
A TL is just absolutely in no way a GS competitor, whether they are the same size or not. By that logic is an Accord a GS competitor too?
06-24-13, 04:05 PM
#67
I went from a 2012 TL SH-AWD to a 2013 GS350
Traded in the TL because the deal I got from Lexus was too good to pass up back in March. i basically swapped out of my TL 14 months before my lease was done, put no money down, and my payment went up $50 per month. Easy choice.
You will miss the SH-AWD...it was hands down, the best thing about the TL. I did not get AWD because I live in Southern Cal and I just don't need it.
I opted to get the Premium package and add 20" rims and some nice sticky summer tires because I didn't like the aluminum interior on the F-Sport, and I don't drive aggressively enough, often enough, to really need the Sport + setting. My GS handles great and sticks to the road. Period.
By the way, I had some problems with the TL as well. Weird stuff with the memory seats, the window motors, and uneven tail pipes that just pissed me off. Acura couldn't fix any of them.
You will miss the SH-AWD...it was hands down, the best thing about the TL. I did not get AWD because I live in Southern Cal and I just don't need it.
I opted to get the Premium package and add 20" rims and some nice sticky summer tires because I didn't like the aluminum interior on the F-Sport, and I don't drive aggressively enough, often enough, to really need the Sport + setting. My GS handles great and sticks to the road. Period.
By the way, I had some problems with the TL as well. Weird stuff with the memory seats, the window motors, and uneven tail pipes that just pissed me off. Acura couldn't fix any of them.
06-24-13, 04:05 PM
#68
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06-24-13, 05:39 PM
#69
I'm gonna call you out on this one sir. If you've going to throw the Accord into the mix, then throw the Camry into the mix as well. Otherwise your your point isn't very well founded, and I'm not saying there's much point to what you're saying anyway...I've driven around in enough Acuras and Hondas to know that there are non-trivial differences between the two.
06-24-13, 05:49 PM
#70
Getting less for less is not a value or bargain. Its less of a product. Acura seems to fool its buyers into thinking they are on par with a higher level car based on size but that is simply to trick people.
The TL is an IS/ES competitor, period. The RL/RLX is the GS competitor, period. The TL like the ES is a compromise and the AWD version would be like Lexus putting AWD on the ES. Its a solid car and the awd system is cool but no one tracks it and reading how the new RDX lost SH-AWD, buyers can't even notice it.
The GS offers features not offered on the TL or Acura's in many cases. It was built from the ground up as a new RWD platform with help from the LFA team. That is why the car handles so amazing without the need for AWD. The TL is an Accord based car as the ES was a Camry based car (now Avalon based).
Unique RWD platofrm, all new
Rear Steering option
2 piece brakes on the F sport
ALuminum pedals
True keyless entry
Mark Levinson sound system with near 900 watts and what 17-19 speakers
Higher grade leather standard. Semi-analine an option
18 way power seat option
16 way F sport seat option
Heads up Display
A real Hybrid in the GS 450h, 30 MPG average with 338hp. More power than any Acura, more MPG than any Acura.
Atkinson cycle hybrid
LED lights inside and out including the license plate. A mod TL buyers have to do.
LED headlight option
Pre-collision
Red leather (Cabernet) and Flaxen leather. TL offers same boring colors
Real Aluminum trim
Real Wood Trim
Bamboo on Hybrid
Gauges that go from red to blue
13" NAV screen, only Tesla offers a bigger screen
Lexus Enform, just call an operator for anything you want
Rear entertainment option on the luxury
Power rear sunshade
Side sun shades on the luxury
Driver mode select (ECO, Normal, Sport, Sport+ which changes the suspension)
Dynamic Tach on the GS 450h
Heated Rear Seats on luxury
Black headliner on F sport
I'm sure I'm missing a couple more. The TL is a good car for its class but simply outmatched at this level as it should be, it is not a competitor. You can't call a car built at less of an engineering price point that offers less a value or bargain. Contrarily if you load up a GS 350 vs a comparably equipped E350 or 535, that would be a value or bargain since its comparable or arguably better for less money.
The TL is an IS/ES competitor, period. The RL/RLX is the GS competitor, period. The TL like the ES is a compromise and the AWD version would be like Lexus putting AWD on the ES. Its a solid car and the awd system is cool but no one tracks it and reading how the new RDX lost SH-AWD, buyers can't even notice it.
The GS offers features not offered on the TL or Acura's in many cases. It was built from the ground up as a new RWD platform with help from the LFA team. That is why the car handles so amazing without the need for AWD. The TL is an Accord based car as the ES was a Camry based car (now Avalon based).
Unique RWD platofrm, all new
Rear Steering option
2 piece brakes on the F sport
ALuminum pedals
True keyless entry
Mark Levinson sound system with near 900 watts and what 17-19 speakers
Higher grade leather standard. Semi-analine an option
18 way power seat option
16 way F sport seat option
Heads up Display
A real Hybrid in the GS 450h, 30 MPG average with 338hp. More power than any Acura, more MPG than any Acura.
Atkinson cycle hybrid
LED lights inside and out including the license plate. A mod TL buyers have to do.
LED headlight option
Pre-collision
Red leather (Cabernet) and Flaxen leather. TL offers same boring colors
Real Aluminum trim
Real Wood Trim
Bamboo on Hybrid
Gauges that go from red to blue
13" NAV screen, only Tesla offers a bigger screen
Lexus Enform, just call an operator for anything you want
Rear entertainment option on the luxury
Power rear sunshade
Side sun shades on the luxury
Driver mode select (ECO, Normal, Sport, Sport+ which changes the suspension)
Dynamic Tach on the GS 450h
Heated Rear Seats on luxury
Black headliner on F sport
I'm sure I'm missing a couple more. The TL is a good car for its class but simply outmatched at this level as it should be, it is not a competitor.
You can't call a car built at less of an engineering price point that offers less a value or bargain. Contrarily if you load up a GS 350 vs a comparably equipped E350 or 535, that would be a value or bargain since its comparable or arguably better for less money.
06-24-13, 06:09 PM
#71
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OK, so maybe similar sizes wasn't completely accurate or the best approach.
Even though the GS & ES are basically the same size, they target different audiences.
Acura is the same with the TL & RLX, one more sporty, the other more comfort/luxury.
I realize the magazines, etc. don't include the TL with the regular mid-size players, but if I were shopping (and others I assume) I would.
You can argue that Lexus is more luxurious overall than Acura, I'd agree with that.
IMO, you could also say that Lexus/Acura/Infiniti don't completely compete with the Germans since none of them offer true M/RS/AMG competitors. Although Lexus has done the most with the IS-F & LFA (both awesome!). Acura also has the coming NSX.
I just don't see how Acura is regarded as an inferior brand. Both Toyota and Honda have serious performance credentials, can't we agree on that? Doesn't Honda make engines for F1?
Even though the GS & ES are basically the same size, they target different audiences.
Acura is the same with the TL & RLX, one more sporty, the other more comfort/luxury.
I realize the magazines, etc. don't include the TL with the regular mid-size players, but if I were shopping (and others I assume) I would.
You can argue that Lexus is more luxurious overall than Acura, I'd agree with that.
IMO, you could also say that Lexus/Acura/Infiniti don't completely compete with the Germans since none of them offer true M/RS/AMG competitors. Although Lexus has done the most with the IS-F & LFA (both awesome!). Acura also has the coming NSX.
I just don't see how Acura is regarded as an inferior brand. Both Toyota and Honda have serious performance credentials, can't we agree on that? Doesn't Honda make engines for F1?
06-24-13, 07:22 PM
#72
IMO comparing front wheel drive cars (or front biased) to rear wheel drive cars (or rear biased) is pointless. Anything pushing 300 + horsepower to the front wheels is going to experience torque steer and this takes the sport right out of sport sedan. Acuras Mdx and Rdx are excellent suvs but their sedans not so much....
Last edited by BOBFSPORT; 06-24-13 at 09:24 PM.
06-24-13, 07:44 PM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
I'm gonna call you out on this one sir. If you've going to throw the Accord into the mix, then throw the Camry into the mix as well. Otherwise your your point isn't very well founded, and I'm not saying there's much point to what you're saying anyway...I've driven around in enough Acuras and Hondas to know that there are non-trivial differences between the two.
Originally Posted by lithe
Even though the GS & ES are basically the same size, they target different audiences.
IMO, you could also say that Lexus/Acura/Infiniti don't completely compete with the Germans since none of them offer true M/RS/AMG competitors.
I just don't see how Acura is regarded as an inferior brand.
06-24-13, 09:04 PM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
If I recall correctly Acura is on top of the safest cars in small, midsize and SUV category in US
06-24-13, 09:22 PM
#75
Pole Position
I think the issue that Acura has always had is just that people don't seem to cross shop their cars alongside Lexus, Audi, BMW & Mercedes. I've driven the TL many times, all the successive generations. I would never even go look at one when shopping at the level of the GS...and I didn't. I drove it back when I was looking at the ES, and yes its a good drivers car but it lacks the refinement of the Lexus, and its a little too "tomorrowland" inside and outside for me.
A TL is just absolutely in no way a GS competitor, whether they are the same size or not. By that logic is an Accord a GS competitor too?
A TL is just absolutely in no way a GS competitor, whether they are the same size or not. By that logic is an Accord a GS competitor too?
Both companies start off with a compromised platform with respect to driving pleasure and use added tech and complexity to overcome the inherent limitations of the chassis.
Eg : The Acura TL shares same chassis as the Accord ( Both FWD based). The GS doesn't share chassis with the Camry. ( GS is RWD, Camry is FWD)
Last edited by natnut; 06-24-13 at 09:27 PM.