Gruu

Hello,

I'm the happy owner of a 2005 ES 330 with 80-85K miles on it and have been contemplating what my next car should be within the next year and a half when I'll be able to properly afford it. (I'd like to avoid financing.) While I'm tempted to get another ES, I'd like my next car to have AWD because it rains a lot in the Pacific Northwest where I live, so I'm contemplating the new GS 350 AWD, the BMW 535xi, and the M-B E350 4Matic.

While I would like to stay with Lexus, at the same time I'm frustrated because it feels like choosing the brand means compromising. Every option available on the Lexus is available on the German cars, but the reverse is not true. This is especially true for BMW, which has the very cool all-around parking cameras and subscription-free real-time traffic information.

The biggest issue that I have with Lexus, though, is that it's seemingly more difficult to buy exactly the car I want. Even if you go to www.lexus.com rather than a local dealer's website, you have to enter your ZIP code and then choose among various large packages based on your area, while the BMW and Mercedes websites clearly list and allow greater customization of individual options, both in terms of which individual options you can select, and in terms of aesthetic variety (more colors, more types of wood trim, etc.). Is the trick with Lexus just to custom-order?

Granted, the BMW and Mercedes are $5-8K more expensive than a comparably-equipped GS 350, and I recognize that offering less at a lower price or more at a higher price is legitimate and can in a sense make all three cars equally good at their respective price points. Someone I talked to a couple of weeks ago wondered what was special about Lexus, though, since the brand typically doesn't have the opulence and brand cache of M-B or the performance of BMW. What Lexus does have on its side is reliability, but I suspect that the Germans have closed that gap over the last few years. While I know several people who have had electronics problems with M-Bs, I also know a lot of BMW owners, and to my knowledge none of them have had to take their car into the shop for anything beyond regular maintenance.

Am I being uncharitable to Lexus, and is there perhaps another perspective that I should be considering? Thanks for reading and for your time.

ShermanMR2

I was on the fence between a BMW 535 and the GS. Ultimately it came down to driving dynamics. The Lexus just felt much better to drive than the Bimmer. I too share your pain with the fact that you can't easily order your car the way you can from the Germans. And yes I really loved the cool tech toys on the BMW too. The Lexus beat it out by a narrow margin though and I'm satisfied with my decision to get the GS. I found one that was fully loaded and grabbed it quick!!!

rayaans

Custom order is your best bet. And with reliability, what you said is not true at all. The MB's electronic problems are outrageous, how do I know? I have one. Mercedes are not as good as back in the day. Sure the styling has got better but the quality isnt the same as in the 1990's. Everythings cheap plastic in a Merc. The only competitor Lexus has in terms of interiors is Audi and thats a fact.

Firstly, take a look at the interior on the GS. Check out the soft leather on the seats and equally, the hard, fake feeling leather on the germans. Check out that clock in the middle of the dash thats been forged from one piece of aluminium. Look at the way the windows close, they slow down towards the end. Sit in the seat, its genuinely the most comfortable seat ive sat in, ever. Take a look at the switches, they feel solid, unlike the plastic, metal lookalike ones in the merc. Spend some time just pushing down the armrest, its got more give than a sofa. Thats whats special about the Lexus. Its all in the details.

GS250

is the understated refinement, comfort and luxury. The handling of the 4GS is really very good. Have you test drive all of them? What do you think in terms of performance?

Outrage

The German vehicles nickel and dime you for every option, which is why they cost significantly more than the Lexus. I mean, you get vinyl seats in the 5-Series and the E-Class to start with. Optioning up to leather costs in excess of $1,000. Lexus provides real leather with the option of semi-aniline leather, which exceeds the optional leather on the German vehicles. Do you want a metallic paint (i.e. the majority of the paint options)? Pay up. How about keyless ignition? That's optional... on a $51,900+ E-Class.

I optioned up an E350 4Matic to encompass all of the options found on my GS 350 with the Luxury Package. The GS 350 stickers for $59,520. The E350 stickers for $65,600. Why? The Mercedes-Benz will still be an inferior handling vehicle which is built to lower quality standards. Obviously, the badge is the only draw.

You can put a value on gadgets. Does handling or quality have a monetary value as well? I think they do. I also find it's odd that you didn't mention the Audi A6 3.0T. I think it is another decent choice in the class if you are willing to tolerate the VAG quality issues.

praetor

I recently put in an order on a GS350 FSport, still awaiting delivery. Besides what has been said so far, what put me over the top with Lexus was resale value. Lexus retains a lot of value after 5 years. The same can't be said with the German brands. BMWs can be had for s steal once the warranty expires. God help you when you need it serviced. Cost of ownership of a Lexus is generally lower. Coming from a Toyota Camry, I drove and beat it up for 13 years. Never had to do anything to it but replace wear and tear items. I hope the Lexus treats me the same.

1111GS

I was between the GS and some other German cars too. I don't know much about cars so when I got the GS it was mostly because of the review from MT on GS, 5 and E. I test drove the cars and got some good feedback here which agree with MT and other reviews. If someone doesn't know about cars, sure MB, BMW or Audi is the luxury and performance brand. If someone knows a little more, GS is a better valued car. I don't think E class is in the conversation anymore. It's GS, 5 and A6 now. We were next to a new S6 where could see the interior clearly (we were in our RX), my son said that Audi's inside doesn't look as nice as yours.
Part of me wants a German car but other parts of me tell me I should get the GS. I think I made the right decision. To be honest, I don't know what I will get when I turn this one in. The more time I spend keeping the car clean and looking at her, 5 and E or A6 don't look as attractive. On top of that reliability is my priority zero since it's my daily drive.

zicogold

The difference between the birds-eye view BMW 535 and the GS is more like $15K. Mind you, you can compromise and go for the 2 liter turbo and close the price difference.

What you give up in the GS is a great ride, handling and a wonderful interior, there is also cost of ownership. Lexus has all of its plants in Japan, save one Cambridge Ont. M-B and BMW have a global assembly solution and nagging reliability and build quality issues.

I looked at the German options and my family corroborated my conclusion, the GS is not simply great value, but a great car at any price. Who knows Lexus may have options you are looking for in 2014.

CincyBrad

This.

German brands love to talk about customization, etc, the reality is that it's nothing but a pricing model to get you to pay more. I looked at an E350 4Matic before I bought the GS. The level of equiptment, compared to the asking price, is embarassing. Sticker on the one I drove was $59k, and it had only basic things. No Xenon headlights, fake leather, no push button start, no ventilated seats, base audio system, etc. To me, for a car in that price range, not having those items is a joke. Push button start is standard on a freaking Kia, but MB? Nope, you have to buy the keyless go package.

Don't let anyone tell you Germans have gotten better with reliability, they haven't. If this purchase is something you intend to keep once its out of warranty, run away from MB and BMW.

tankton

Honestly? The germans charge more because people are willing to pay more for MB/BMW than Lexus, not to mention, one can still order more features on the Germans, not available on Lexus.

The greatest annoyance I still have with Toyota is they still make most of their cars for the Japanese market, first, then sell them worldwide. Don't let them say otherwise on Lexus - the AWD driveshaft is proof enough. Perfectly fine for Japan, where the driver sites on the right. Annoying in the US (their largest market), where the driver sits on the correct side of the vehicle. Not to mention, the strange exclusion of options, available in Japan, yet not in the US (or if they are available in the US, they are limited to certain packages, which will preclude other optional features).

Lexus is rapidly becoming an insult to US buyers - Toyota is trying to see how many features can they remove from a car, before US buyers had enough of their antics.

GS350MIKE

So many great comments from others so far. The choice seems so obvious to me, but that's just me. I'll add this...

For me BMW and Mercedes are ubiquitous, superfluous, and such "obvious" choices for people who need the status symbol that they believe a German car represents. Audi is slightly less ever-present in my neighborhood (Beverly Hills, CA), but perhaps equally perceived by drivers as a German built status symbol.

I don't need a status symbol. I don't need to feel like I'm in the "in crowd". I put greater importance on what the 4GS represents to me: Value, Performance, Quality, Reliability, and DIFFERENT than the endless parade of German sedans that I see everywhere I look in Los Angeles.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

To original poster,

BMW 5 series was the worst car I have ever owned. So many problems, lousy ride and handling balance, and bland styling. I only had the 2011 BMW 535i for 1 year and traded it in for a 2013 GS350 F-Sport and I love my car so much right now. Its probably the best Lexus and the best midsize sports sedan I have ever owned. Mind me, I have german cars in my household and NO WAY this Lexus is any compromise. Its a summation of the best of everything ( Ride, Handling, Technology, Styling and Reliability). Seriously you cannot beat that.

SW17LS

I REALLY tried hard to replace my 2010 ES with something German this time just because I had never had a BMW, Mercedes or Audi before but have had Lexus vehicles for many years. I drove everything, and quickly crossed the E Class off my list because it was too expensive, the interior and technology were nowhere near as sophisticated as the Lexus, and the ride was too boaty without being really comfortable.

The 5 series I finally crossed off the list because the interior was not as nice, they are everywhere, and similarly equipped it was $10k+ more.

It came down to the Audi A6 and the Lexus GS. I really liked the Audi, but in the end the better lease programs at Lexus and the better interior won me over...

Around view cameras and whatever are fun for a week, the substance of the car is what really matters.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

For myself, I have always admired the Lexus brand and what it stands for. The GS has always been my favorite car in the lineup, and I still remember seeing the tricked out 2nd Gen GS 3/400's when I drove a Camry. Envy! I also still remember seeing the super bowl commercial for the new GS f sport. At that time both of our cars were paid off, so why add a payment? Because of this car. I did my diligence with BMW and Audi (never considered MB). In my opinion:

Audi wins: exterior styling, look, straight line speed/engine

BMW 5 wins: possibilities with upgrades (again POSSIBILITIES if you want to give them 10 grand extra!)

GS: All around winner, interior was superior, exterior styling/body lines holds its own. Despite the gripes about 6 speed gearbox I have only hoped for more low RPM get up, which you get with Audi especially as it is supercharged. The car performs. I wanted to be a part of the new direction Lexus is taking its brand of vehicles. I too feel your pain about "limited" options with Lexus, and if you are going to spend this kind of $ you want the car to have certain features. If after testing all the cars this still eats at you, then by all means cross the GS off the list. As someone mentioned above, MB and BMW (now Audi in recent years in the US) have always had that German swagger, which undoubtedly still attracts many buyers. The badge, the name, the status, blah blah blah. Lexus has made a huge gain on the 5 series and E350 (and surpassed in some ways) with the GS. To quote (partially) Dave Chappelle, "IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM" is buying the new GS some sort of compromise. As a proud owner of the 2013 GS, I think I also speak for my fellow owners, and those that hope or wish they could own one.

P.S. If you dont choose the GS, please go with an Audi (even though I know you didn't mention interest in one).

GS350Dat

iTrader: (2)

Before purchasing a 4GS that i have now, I had a chance to look at a 5 Series 535i. Outsides looks great paint looks great but like someone mentioned looks the same with all the bimmers out there! The Bmws interior is bland and boring!