how much crap do you guys get for owning a Lexus?
01-18-13, 09:42 PM
#46
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I've own a few high end MBs and the GS350 Fsport is by far the most comfort, great technologies and good handling Lexus ever. I occasionally get to drive the car when my wife does NOT drive it.
01-18-13, 10:32 PM
#47
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I owned an Audi A6 4.2. It was like heaven just listening to the car start with the V8, and the structure was rock solid. However, on numerous occasions when I brought it in the shop the service manager said... and I quote... "The Germans invent the technology and the Japanese perfect it". This, coming from an Audi service manager. I would rather have something that has been "perfected". Nuff said.
Japanese cars are created with the japanese mindset of harmony. They are trying to keep it simpler and know that moving parts that working together must have good tolerance. Toyota often overbuilds their cars exceeding the calculated specs. Very durable but could be bland. I m glad that akio toyoda raised the bar.
It depends what you want. While i love my 4gs, i simply couldn't leave with our '13 rx350 fsport that my SO insisted on getting. I disliked it so much that i got a touareg in a month and got rid of the rx 2 weeks later.
01-18-13, 11:41 PM
#48
Hey what's wrong with kias? Its reliable and you can beat the hell out of them. Having owned both Lexus and Mercedes I would choose Mercedes for driving experience. Reliability Lexus hands down but I see cost of ownership of Lexus on par with German counterparts nowadays.
01-19-13, 03:23 AM
#49
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No longer.
If you have been keeping up with recent developments, the new Lexus sedans, starting out with the 4th gen GS and continuing on with the upcoming 3rd gen IS, have leapfrogged the Germans such that they are now class leading in handling and fun-to-drive factor.
The 4GS has improved on handling so much, it now beats the 5 series and Audi A6. The E-class isn't even part of the conversation when it comes to handling,
It's disappointing to see that even past/current Lexus owners (for eg you )are so behind on Lexus' vast upgrades in handling and technology and are still clinging on to old stereotypes. Time to get with the program.
It's no longer your grandfather's Lexus. Can't say the same for the mainstream E and C class
Last edited by natnut; 01-19-13 at 03:29 AM.
01-19-13, 06:06 AM
#50
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Id like to hear your thoughts on this (why not even close, etc), and which vehicles you are comparing when you say that. Interestingly our vehicles are similar to your current ones: 2013 GS 450h, 2010 Honda Pilot (although the Pilot is being replaced by an Odyssey tomorrow).
01-19-13, 06:15 AM
#52
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My experiences with MBs involve the E550, S550 and SL550. Lexuses are the RX350, GS350 and LS 460. And the reasons I choose MB include hundreds of small things, as well as the vehicle overall. From the paint quality, fit and finish, amount and quality of plastic, audio systems, quality of leather, quality feel of ***** and switches, command system, composure of ride, engine HP and response, handling, etc etc etc. Lexus does outshine the MB in repair records, however my most reliable vehicles have been my Hondas
Name me one MB audio system that can match up to the Mark Levinson Audio in the LS and GS.
Name me one MB sedan that does better than a Lexus sedan in CR, JD Powers reliability rankings.
Name me one E-class sedan that rides and handles better than the 4th Generation GS. Show me the reviews that say so.
Show me where it says that the standard textile in a MB E and C class is leather and not the fake MB Tex "pleather".
If all you can do is laugh but can't provide concrete examples, well......lol
Last edited by natnut; 01-19-13 at 06:18 AM.
01-19-13, 06:30 AM
#53
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I always laugh when people say that Lexus = Toyota.
So what? Is that a bad thing? Toyotas have an unsurpassed reputation for quality and reliability for almost half a century and Lexus is the pinnacle of Toyota know-how, technical innovation and engineering. Does being German somehow confer superiority in engineering or quality. Makes me laugh.
Don't forget then that Audi= Volkswagen, which is the European equivalent of a Camry or a Corolla in Europe
and that BMW = Mini then. Or that Mercedes makes worktrucks and schoolbuses. Many of our taxis in Singapore and in Europe are Mercedes.
OTOH, the maker of the humble Toyota Corolla also made the all carbon fiber Lexus LFA, which crushes any German car on the famed Nurburgring Circuit. Not even any Mercedes AMG, BMW M5 or Audi R8 can compare. So let's come off our high horse.
Fact is, almost every major automaker has its bread and butter cars as well as a Premium line. Being a European marque doesn't suddenly make one "high class" nor does being made by Toyota a mark of shame.
If anything, I should be proud that the car that I own is backed up by a multi-billion company renowned for making the most reliable cars on the planet, which has been globally recognized for having the best manufacturing and quality control practices.
This same company has decided to pour its very best resources and engineering know-how into the badge that currently adorns the front grille of the car that I drive. The results have been well documented in multiple reliability and quality surveys like Consumer Reports and JD Powers.
So when someone says I drive a Toyota, I thank him for recognizing me as a well researched and knowledgeable consumer, one who isn't a badge snob and who doesn't just make purchases based on perceived prestige and then I also thank him for his compliment.
So what? Is that a bad thing? Toyotas have an unsurpassed reputation for quality and reliability for almost half a century and Lexus is the pinnacle of Toyota know-how, technical innovation and engineering. Does being German somehow confer superiority in engineering or quality. Makes me laugh.
Don't forget then that Audi= Volkswagen, which is the European equivalent of a Camry or a Corolla in Europe
and that BMW = Mini then. Or that Mercedes makes worktrucks and schoolbuses. Many of our taxis in Singapore and in Europe are Mercedes.
OTOH, the maker of the humble Toyota Corolla also made the all carbon fiber Lexus LFA, which crushes any German car on the famed Nurburgring Circuit. Not even any Mercedes AMG, BMW M5 or Audi R8 can compare. So let's come off our high horse.
Fact is, almost every major automaker has its bread and butter cars as well as a Premium line. Being a European marque doesn't suddenly make one "high class" nor does being made by Toyota a mark of shame.
If anything, I should be proud that the car that I own is backed up by a multi-billion company renowned for making the most reliable cars on the planet, which has been globally recognized for having the best manufacturing and quality control practices.
This same company has decided to pour its very best resources and engineering know-how into the badge that currently adorns the front grille of the car that I drive. The results have been well documented in multiple reliability and quality surveys like Consumer Reports and JD Powers.
So when someone says I drive a Toyota, I thank him for recognizing me as a well researched and knowledgeable consumer, one who isn't a badge snob and who doesn't just make purchases based on perceived prestige and then I also thank him for his compliment.
Last edited by natnut; 01-19-13 at 06:41 AM.
01-19-13, 06:40 AM
#54
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Nice post Nat. My household has been driving Acura's and Lexus' for some time now. With both I feel I'm getting value and the cost of maintenance is reasonable compared to other lines.
01-19-13, 06:49 AM
#56
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If anything, B and O systems are at the same level as ML at most. But in his initial post tomd claimed that Lexus cars/features/qualities are far from a Mercedes.
Besides the S class, how do the E and C class stack up in features, reliability and quality compared to its opposite GS and IS rival? Are the additional options in the S-class pricey and are there features standard in the LS that are not available as standard in the S class(answer is yes)?
All you have proven is that he tomd is guilty of hyperbole.
Last edited by natnut; 01-19-13 at 06:54 AM.
01-19-13, 06:53 AM
#57
German cars are created with tight tolerance, meaning that everything must be within the limit to the dot including maintenance. So, if one part fails there is a chance it will create a chain reaction of failure. It doesn't help that they like top technology. Beautiful fascinating machines, when they work.
Japanese cars are created with the japanese mindset of harmony. They are trying to keep it simpler and know that moving parts that working together must have good tolerance. Toyota often overbuilds their cars exceeding the calculated specs. Very durable but could be bland. I m glad that akio toyoda raised the bar.
It depends what you want. While i love my 4gs, i simply couldn't leave with our '13 rx350 fsport that my SO insisted on getting. I disliked it so much that i got a touareg in a month and got rid of the rx 2 weeks later.
Japanese cars are created with the japanese mindset of harmony. They are trying to keep it simpler and know that moving parts that working together must have good tolerance. Toyota often overbuilds their cars exceeding the calculated specs. Very durable but could be bland. I m glad that akio toyoda raised the bar.
It depends what you want. While i love my 4gs, i simply couldn't leave with our '13 rx350 fsport that my SO insisted on getting. I disliked it so much that i got a touareg in a month and got rid of the rx 2 weeks later.
I do agree with you on the new Rx. We've been trying to like it since day one it came out but still not convinced enough to replace ours (previous gen). People seem to love their Rx, but the ride is completely different from the previous gen. I guess we all have different tastes
You even got a new Honda. 
If you want to compare though, you need to compare GS350 to E350 to be fair. I don't know about the cars as much as natnut to make comments, so
BTW, I always enjoy reading your responses, natnut.
Last edited by 1111GS; 01-19-13 at 07:14 AM.
01-19-13, 06:55 AM
#58
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My main car (dd) for the last 2 years is a Porsche 911 (2009 Carrera S pdk).
I decided to get a second car for the winter (AWD), and to split the miles with the porsche.
I had every intention of getting the 535xi or maybe even the 550xi. Test drove them. Great cars.
But the Lexus dealership was nearby, so, what the h..., I decided to check out the GS350 AWD F-Sport. Then I went back and drove the 535xi again (with M-Sport package). Then I drove the GS350 again....
EASY choice. Now I have a F-Sport to rotate driving with my 911. I consider both cars to be the BEST cars I've ever had, each at the top of their class for their given purpose.
(Addendum: If you have the F-Sport AWD, you MUST get rid of the Bridgestone Turanzas and get performance tires. It transforms the driving experience)
I decided to get a second car for the winter (AWD), and to split the miles with the porsche.
I had every intention of getting the 535xi or maybe even the 550xi. Test drove them. Great cars.
But the Lexus dealership was nearby, so, what the h..., I decided to check out the GS350 AWD F-Sport. Then I went back and drove the 535xi again (with M-Sport package). Then I drove the GS350 again....
EASY choice. Now I have a F-Sport to rotate driving with my 911. I consider both cars to be the BEST cars I've ever had, each at the top of their class for their given purpose.
(Addendum: If you have the F-Sport AWD, you MUST get rid of the Bridgestone Turanzas and get performance tires. It transforms the driving experience)
01-19-13, 06:59 AM
#59
Not sure about the comfort options but I remember reading from a magazine (probably consumer report) a few years back, LS was above S class in comfort category. This time around I think someone posted something from UK that these two vehicles have the same cabin noise level.
01-19-13, 07:10 AM
#60
Does tomd have it in his Mercedes? If not he is talking about theoretical advantages and not speaking from experience.
If anything, B and O systems are at the same level as ML at most. But in his initial post tomd claimed that Lexus cars/features/qualities are far from a Mercedes.
Besides the S class, how do the E and C class stack up in features, reliability and quality compared to its opposite GS and IS rival? Are the additional options in the S-class pricey and are there features standard in the LS that are not available as standard in the S class(answer is yes)?
All you have proven is that he tomd is guilty of hyperbole.
If anything, B and O systems are at the same level as ML at most. But in his initial post tomd claimed that Lexus cars/features/qualities are far from a Mercedes.
Besides the S class, how do the E and C class stack up in features, reliability and quality compared to its opposite GS and IS rival? Are the additional options in the S-class pricey and are there features standard in the LS that are not available as standard in the S class(answer is yes)?
All you have proven is that he tomd is guilty of hyperbole.
My son in law has a '11 S 550 and it's a fantastic car in comfort and safety.
Side bolsters on the seat back and bottoms air up automatically when making a turn,massage and roller massage option,open the door and where ever it's opened to it won't close on you,car stops if under 20 MPH and door is opened,choices of ambient light colors,PCS stops the S Class,position NAV screen to face passenger and have NAV directions in video gauge area,more that I can't think of now..
All things that go wrong after warranty.
Costs much more than a LS but it sells well.
Blows away the LS in street presence.Especially with AMG pkg.
The car is amazing.Not a car you want to keep after warranty but considering over 75% of Benz's are leases,not too many do.
BMW has a 75% lease number and Lexus a 70%.
I'm not a fan of the E or C class.Absolutely love the S Class.New generation coming out in '14.Cost is over my head but a very nice car.
Numbers of sales/leases for the E Class in Dec was 6984,5 Series 8385 and GS 2796.
The GS still has a way to go.
Look,I'm a Lexus guy and have owned many but when you lease,reliability isn't a big factor.Warranty problem,bring it in and get a loaner.