sydtoosic

judging from the 2013 GS, base, luxury and f-sport. their days of playing catch up is over. CONTINUITY is the key.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

each car is getting a much better identity now, last gen GS was meh, didnt get what it was trying to cater to. Now the new ES Is catering to people wanting a comfortable drive instead of going for the sporty GS/IS

LexFather

I think Lexus has slowly been changing perceptions and I made a thread thanking all the people that have been modifying their Lexus and involved in motorsport with their Lexus and planning/going to meets etc etc and showing Lexus there is an enthusiast market. Every Lexus has gotten sportier most generations and the IS F and LFA really put the world on notice that Lexus is FOR REAL when they focus on offering a sporty product. Both the IS F and LFA got STELLAR reviews, sometimes unbelievable praise. They were not products that stunk. Then Lexus improved the IS F with a new suspension, they are LISTENING. Even the CT is tuned for sport and gotten good reviews about it, though not completely glorious b/c of a harsh ride.

The GS is the first new Lexus after the LFA with a completely new driving experience and they hit a home run out the park. From the driving position, to the drive itself, the learnings of the LFA are clearly felt here. Yet they manage to keep the Lexus ride and luxury. In this sense, yes its THE game changer since the LFA and IS F are expected to drive harsh and sporty. Even a base GS 350 drives sportiest in class arguably. That says A LOT about the GS, when a base model drives that well.

The other kudos has to go to the F-sport program. Lexus created it a few years ago and continues to change it. We all asked MAKE F-SPORT A FACTORY INSTALLED OPTION and they did and by golly they got it 100% right. Most of the market wants to purchase the parts together on the car from the factory. They don't want to add sway bars, brakes, springs etc etc that some of us crazy nuts do. It might be less involving as an owner but the results speak for themselves.

BTW from my understanding the new ES drives unbelievable as well.

Bingo and I don't think people here sometimes understand how much the LFA meant to Lexus and how much of deal it is internally. It completely changed Lexus. Mr. Toyoda is the PERFECT man for the job, a true leader completely vested in his company with HIS name on it. He is an enthusiast just like many of us.



No reason to quit posting Your points make sense and its kinda of funny and ironic as many have spoken about, including reviews. BMW makes the Lexus now and Lexus makes the BMW. Funny how things change. Its funny though that when Lexus did it, there was every reason in the book why it needed improving and now BMW does it and "its awesome"

I think everyone agrees a 400hp or so V-8 Lexus is sorely missing. No arguments there, you wanted a more powerful car and BMW offers it and Lexus missed out. I hope the GS eventually offers a knock-out V-8.

dseag2

We need others' opinions here to keep us honest. I have never test driven a 5 Series because the last BMW I tested was a 335is Convertible, which I found very rough, with turbo lag and a rough ride from the RFT. That is when I traded my '10 Audi S5 Cab for an '11 Audi S5 Cab. Clearly, the 5 Series is in a different category.

To answer your questions, I don't think it is particularly odd that Lexus dropped the V8 on the GS because IMHO the car has more than enough power, and I am coming from an S5 with a supercharged V6. I would be quite frustrated at this point in the game if the GS were a slouch in comparison, but it's not. Lexus may have a V8 up their sleeve to compete head-to-head with BMW and Mercedes. Who knows?

Also, I'm not sure I understand the comment re: the "quiet, solid and refined feel". The GS has that in spades. In fact, it is so refined it is almost boring in comparison with my Audi. I would actually like a little less "refinement". I guess I will have to test drive a 5 Series to understand.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

I found my 2011 BMW 535i to be too refined compared to my 2013 Lexus Gs. It felt numb as a result and had no soul really. It was the most boring car I have ever owned. Glad its gone now and I am really loving my GS. The GS strikes the best balance between luxury and performance. Hell, I even liked my old GS too.

LexFather

And btw what is great is internally Lexus is not complacent here. They are extremely happy with the results but are pushing even harder. Wait till the new IS comes out and a surprise or two


Hmmmm, did you catch that?

Blackraven

You can see the influence the LFA has pushing its principles and technologies down to the more mainstream models..........starting with the Lexus GS 4th generation.

Definitely a step in the right direction.

Mr. Burns

Balance describes the 4GS well. Unlike the Infiniti M, it's refined. Unlike the A6, it's RWD. Unlike the 5 series, it's light weight. Unlike the E-class, it doesn't have ancient technology inside. Unlike all four it will still be a desirable used car purchase 10 years from now.

jjscsix

Thanks to both of you for the nice replies. I really don't want to come across as bashing the new GS because I'm not. I would have no problem owning one. It's just that my new 550 suits my needs better at this time.

As far as your comment about the Lexus being quiet and refined. No doubt it is, but the BMW is more so. It has a composure in daily driving that simply is amazing. When I read the MT article it simply reinforced what struck me about the car.

sydtoosic

your input is what makes a forum a forum. a good debate is healthy in a forum. there should always be that one person that disagrees. before the 4GS was released a few people on CL bashed the car they didn't like this and that, it's hideous etc. and i'll be damned if those same people now own the car. i think that's cool. NAH,,,,, stay on board you are definitely needed here.

qualityday

My wife wanted the 550 then drove the new Cayenne and chose it instead, yup different vehicles totally but we both agreed the porsche for the same price was better.

Ok so I thought I'll get the 550 M when i got rid of my truck. then I saw the new GS. without even driving it I selected it over the 550 M based on looks and interior.

If your truly a power junkie both the 550 and the GS are not going to deliver the goods. M5 was where you should have been.

GSTONY

To me this is enough power but dosent hurt to have a bit more, my next car will be a GTR cheap fast and unbeatable and use my 4 gs for a family car.

peteharvey

Presently I own 3 Lexiis, including the recently superseded GS, and I may very well buy the new 4GS.
I have driven the 535i, and the all new 335i, as well as the latest 4GS.
However, like you jjscsix, Lexus has certainly improved with the new 4GS, but I don't think Lexus has done well enough with the new 4GS.
It's one thing to be biased and show favoritism; it's another thing to be neutral.
What I want is "real world results", in other words, purchasing or sales statistics.
As another Lexus forum member posted on a different thread, last year Lexus sold 3500 GS's, against 8000 Infiniti G37's, some 42000 5 Series and 53500 E Class Benz.
The all new 4GS simply will not sell 42000 to 53500 units in the USA alongside the E Class and 5 Series.
We must very roughly estimate how many 4GS's will sell?
We must all ask ourselves, why are the results like that?
Why aren't more people buying 4GS's?
Where did the all new 4GS go wrong?
What clear message must be sent to Toyota from Japan?

If we keep raving about the new 4GS, and this raving gets to Japan, we will mislead Lexus.
Mr Toyota will continue to pump cars out like the new 4GS, and we will continue to have a 4GS that sells 10,000 to 20,000 units a year in the USA - embarrassingly selling at half the rate of the E Class and 5 Series.

We all know the new 4GS won't sell on par with the E and 5; not even half way?
Now, where has the new 4GS gone wrong?

The old 3GS had a jelly bean shape that is too radical for buyers in this segment.
The old 3GS jelly bean shape is also not practical and roomy for size.
The new 4GS has a conventional 3-box shape that is practical and roomy, and as Natnut has pointed out, the new 4GS now has the biggest boot in it's class.
Btw, did you guys know the new 4GS now has the highest rear seat base, and hence the most comfortable rear seat.
The rear seats on the 5 Series are the worst in this segment.
You sit lowest with your backside almost to the floor.
Your knees then point into the sky.
Worse, the driver and front passenger seats are too high relative to the rear seats, thus the rear passengers have to look "over" the driver and front passenger's shoulders for a forward view - very uncomfortable.

Now, the 3.5 liter 60 degree V6 engine in the GS is the best engine in it's class.
It has atmospheric response, and bags of bottom end torque, top end power, and it revs gloriously smooth.
Better than the 3.5 liter 90 degree coarse unit in the E350 Benz, and better than the 3.0 Turbo in the 535i.
For those who don't already know, the 90 degree Benz V6, is 90 degrees because it is cast from a 90 degree V8 die to save money; however a V6 in 90 degrees has poor air intake resulting in lower bottom end torque, and extreme coarseness - if you ever test my mother's 2001 Benz C240 2.6.
Btw, if you guys have ever driven the old GS460 V8 back to back with a GS350, and you are pretty knowledgeable with cars, you will realise that the V8 version has a very heavy nose - so it's very reluctant, hence slow to turn into corners.
Hence personally, I'm not particularly keen on V8's in this size of motor car.
A V6 is reasonably powerful, yet light on the nose, for sharp and quick turn in; that is, quick changes in direction, by keeping the average mass closer to the centre of gravity, and lowering the polar moment of inertia.
The V6 Lexus is the smoothest V6 in it's class! However, no longer the quietest; more on this later.

The new 4GS has lovely steering feel, turn-in, handling and ride.
If you test drive the new 4GS against the 535i, and the Jaguar XF, you will find that the new 4GS is almost as firm as the 535i, with the XF being by far the firmest.
Lexus has deliberately made the 4GS a little softer, to compete against the much much softer E350 Benz. Lexus has done well here.
The new 4GS has a lovely small steering wheel with thick rim, it has good feel, good lighter weighting, reasonably sharper response, good body control with respect to roll, decent terminal grip, and it is very controllable at the limit.
The best Lexus chassis I have ever driven is the old discontinued IS200 and IS300.
The IS200/300 had the small steering wheel, the sharpest turn-in of any sedan including the 3 Series from 1998-2005, the highest levels of adhesion, and it was so controllable at the limit - the tail would simply not snap at you, like the traditional semi-trailing arm rear suspension systems used in the 1 Series BMW's.

As to the F-Sports, I have not driven it myself, however I suspect that it's even more firmly sprung than the 535i Sports, hence the F-Sports is the sports sedan king, and is presently winning a lot of reviews.
Suspension design is mostly a compromise; the firmer the suspension, the better the handling, at the expense to the ride.

Refinement wise, the new 4GS is the quietest car in it's class, and even quieter than the old 3GS on cruising.
However, the moment we lightly prod the accelerator, the engines which now have de-insulated firewalls, immediately become very loud!!!
More louder than the E Class and 5 Series!!
This will not appease many traditional Lexus buyers accustomed to a muted engine.

Equipment wise, the new 4GS has the lot, including a powerful and clean sounding hi fi.
Safety on the new 4GS is as good as any.

Now, why won't the new 4GS sell at volumes on par with E and 5?
Why do people keep buying the E Class and 5 Series in such large numbers?
What message must we send to the Research and Development team in Japan?
Will we keep on misleading the Japanese into thinking that the new 4GS is selling on par with E and 5?
Why don't we get the message across to Lexus, so that the GS can do to the luxury market, what the Camry does to the mass car market?

The new 4GS is a great car, but there are several factors holding it back from an outright victory in the sales department.
Number 1 is probably the exterior and interior styling.
At some angles, the new 4GS does look stylish including the rear, esp in lighter colours, however at most angles, the 4GS looks blander than the old model.
Lexus must make the 5GS more stylish. The current 4GS is still a little bland, especially on the side and rear.
The 4GS dashboard, especially the concave area above the glove box is not so stylish; the old 3GS dash was actually more stylish.

Number 2, the new 4GS is more spacious, but still not enough.
The new 4GS gained fancy 20-way adjustable seats, for only 1 centimeter more rear foot room.
The 20-way adjustment is actually a gimmick, and no more comfortable than 8-way adjustment.
Lexus should combine 8-way adjustment etc, with much more foot room like their own Camry!
The rear foot room of the new 4GS is still the worst in it's class!
We must get the message to Japan.
The new 4GS is still short on rear legroom and rear shoulder room.

The number 3 and last point is the removal of engine firewall sound insulation material.
Though quietest in it's class on cruising, now the new 4GS is the loudest on acceleration in it's class!
I think they went just a bit too far here; more firewall insulation would be appreciated.
Afterall, the 4GS is supposed to be sporting luxury, meaning both sports and luxury.
We need some firewall insulation for the luxury component.

We must get this message to Lexus in Japan.
If they can make the styling more stylish inside and out, improve the rear foot, leg and shoulder room, put back some firewall sound insulation material, then I think the next 5GS should be able to amass 40,000 to 50,000 units per year on par with the E Class and 5 Series in the USA.
Presently as it stands, the 4GS simply won't sell on par, regardless of bias and favoritism.
The truth is in the sales figures; it it does not sell, there must be something wrong.
If the Camry can become America's best selling car, then surely the GS is capable of becoming the best selling mid-size luxo in America - provided Lexus put some intelligent thinking into their future designs...



Nice angle.
However unfortunately, in real life, it is honestly bland.
One of the reasons why this particular photo looks quite attractive is because it is taken with an overcast sky.
When the sky is overcast, the paint tends to reflect more light - in other words, the paint work tends to glow more.



Bland angle.

Just a few improvements needed to genuinely sell against the E Class and 5 Series, for true game changing...

peteharvey

If we slightly re-phrase the thread, and say "Is the new GS F-Sports THE game changer for Lexus in the [hardish core-type] mid-size sports sedan market", then the answer would be a resounding yes!
In this sports sedan category, there is more emphasis place on handling, than on the styling of the car.
Based on a number of recent review articles, it seems that the F-Sports is a better handling car than the 535i Sports.
Natnut will be very happy!

However, when we talk about a "regular mainstream" GS, "Is the 4th generation GS THE game changer for Lexus" - the answer is sadly no.
The market is littered with new Benz E Classes and BMW 5 Series.
Lexus will not sell anywhere near 40,000 to 50,000 GS's in the USA for 2012.
Buyers are still going heavily German mainly because of the new 4GS's let down in styling; styling really sells.
It is counter-productive to "mislead" Lexus of Japan.
We want Lexus of Japan to take note, and heavily improve on the deficiencies of the 4GS for out-right market victory.
Out-right market victory will also give the Lexus dealers, sales reps, and service department, true happiness...

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

Did you even read the press release for Lexus????? They only intended to sell 20k GS a year in the US and not mass market with discounts like BMW and Mercedes. So far they are doing 2,500 per month which is not bad. Its perfect. I do not want to have a car that I see at every corner of the damn town like the 5 and E. Too mundane. The GS is special.