"I didn't want this car" - Akio Toyoda, about the 4GS
08-30-11, 10:43 PM
#31
What really is disappointing is most people on CL LOVE the GS & SC, and Lexus cancelled the SC and was about to cancel the GS??? Then Lexus would be just as bad as Acura.
To all the people making excuses for Toyoda - How can the CEO not be aware of how important the GS & SC are to the Lexus brand? They carry prestige, luxury, and styling that the ES and RX do not.
BTW he only LISTENED, after the Lexus execs acted crazy and probably threatened a revolt.
This is honestly a crazy story IMO and shows how little Lexus means to Toyoda. The sad thing is that management was not on the same page and therefore the 4GS probably could of been a much better product than what it is.
To all the people making excuses for Toyoda - How can the CEO not be aware of how important the GS & SC are to the Lexus brand? They carry prestige, luxury, and styling that the ES and RX do not.
BTW he only LISTENED, after the Lexus execs acted crazy and probably threatened a revolt.
This is honestly a crazy story IMO and shows how little Lexus means to Toyoda. The sad thing is that management was not on the same page and therefore the 4GS probably could of been a much better product than what it is.
Reading the original article I sense a lot of miscommunication had taken place and that they had fixed that issue so that communication could be more efficient.
This article might be re-addressing an old article (months ago) that talked about how Toyota was re-arranging executive positions for faster decision making and efficient executive communication.
08-30-11, 10:49 PM
#32
Lexus is a good brand, not great. I like it, but not its recent decision. All the money that went to limited edition LFA could of been used for research and development of better technology that would go to cars accessible to the public, not just the mega rich. Ohh, btw, most people on here are here because they own a car and had a question, like me. Some just decide to stay. If it werent for this site, i would of never kept the car, but the people here showed me the potential of the car. I agree with the rims, they should atleast give it a "sports" package, not necessarily a "F-Sport", things like aggressive rims or a sort of aero kit.
You have no idea what the LFA has done for Lexus, seems like you're a bit sour because you can't access it (sounds like they succeeded) makes you want that F-action doesn't it?
F-sport does offer aero packages and rims, if you don't like it-that is what the after market is for.
08-30-11, 11:54 PM
#33
the topic of this thread is interesting, but after reading some of the replies here in this thread really made me laugh, to the point that i wonder if i should even reply. i guess people missed joe's post #9 that he was there when toyoda spoke.
in any case, you know, if toyoda really had that idea, i can't say i fault him for that. in fact, i kind of applaud his way of trying to focus on what he thinks is right. focus on fixing all the quality problem, strengthen the brand (toyota) again back to its old form, and get back the heart of all owners. for that, stopping development of the new gs might just make sense.
the sales of the 3gs is as BS as it can get already. the car is a failure, period. nothing anyone say can remotely save that car (yes, said by a current owner). so putting that same car on the lot for another 1-2 years won't really hurt much in terms of sales (how much lower can it go). if that's what it takes toyota to go back to old form, toyoda had his points.
of course, having a 4gs out is an exciting news nonetheless, absolutely zero doubt. let's put aside whether we think the 4gs is a beauty or not, that's beyond the point of this thread. but doing a car like this takes away a lot of r&d resources and nothing is free, so something else will have to suffer (either on time or quality). so it's always a toss
in any case, you know, if toyoda really had that idea, i can't say i fault him for that. in fact, i kind of applaud his way of trying to focus on what he thinks is right. focus on fixing all the quality problem, strengthen the brand (toyota) again back to its old form, and get back the heart of all owners. for that, stopping development of the new gs might just make sense.
the sales of the 3gs is as BS as it can get already. the car is a failure, period. nothing anyone say can remotely save that car (yes, said by a current owner). so putting that same car on the lot for another 1-2 years won't really hurt much in terms of sales (how much lower can it go). if that's what it takes toyota to go back to old form, toyoda had his points.
of course, having a 4gs out is an exciting news nonetheless, absolutely zero doubt. let's put aside whether we think the 4gs is a beauty or not, that's beyond the point of this thread. but doing a car like this takes away a lot of r&d resources and nothing is free, so something else will have to suffer (either on time or quality). so it's always a toss
08-30-11, 11:57 PM
#34
Lexus is gonna be a dead brand anytime soon, selling "rebadged" camry's with leather over the seat. That's my opinion. Any way, i don't like new car styles, edges and hard lines everywhere. i like smooth and flowing like the first gen gs and the sc. But ohh well, we cant do anything about it. And Toyoda will continue to make Lexus a easy seller rather than a sport-luxury brand. I'm sorry if i offended anyone, but when the only good car is expensive like hell to make and you've been using technology from 2004, things go bad. Take a look at the now vanished pontiac. Same 6 cylinder since the 2002 Grand Am. Bland looks and not a good performer.
08-31-11, 12:46 AM
#35
Seems like you understand what you want but don't understand market dynamics as a whole and how to properly brand and market ideas, products and philosophy.
You have no idea what the LFA has done for Lexus, seems like you're a bit sour because you can't access it (sounds like they succeeded) makes you want that F-action doesn't it?
F-sport does offer aero packages and rims, if you don't like it-that is what the after market is for.
You have no idea what the LFA has done for Lexus, seems like you're a bit sour because you can't access it (sounds like they succeeded) makes you want that F-action doesn't it?
F-sport does offer aero packages and rims, if you don't like it-that is what the after market is for.
IMO
08-31-11, 01:14 AM
#36
I bet a lot of you who are criticizing the GS haven't seen or even sat inside it 
I was also at the reveal with JoeZ and quite a few other CL members and personally got to check out the car inside and out. The car is stunning (IMO). The interior puts almost every current gen lexus interior to shame... And the car will defiantly have major road presence...
Also ... I think the point Akio was trying to make is that there was a lack of communication between him and Lexus, and that it was hard for him to know what was happening. But that is fixed!!!. He realized what was wrong and changed things for the better!. Like Joe said in his post that most ignored ... lexus now has a direct line to Mr. Toyoda... so we know that lexus WILL get it's voice heard without going through levels and levels of management.
Running Lexus into the ground? Yeah ... I don't think so... I think this is the start of a turnaround - and I am very excited for what the 3IS will bring.
I was also at the reveal with JoeZ and quite a few other CL members and personally got to check out the car inside and out. The car is stunning (IMO). The interior puts almost every current gen lexus interior to shame... And the car will defiantly have major road presence...
Also ... I think the point Akio was trying to make is that there was a lack of communication between him and Lexus, and that it was hard for him to know what was happening. But that is fixed!!!. He realized what was wrong and changed things for the better!. Like Joe said in his post that most ignored ... lexus now has a direct line to Mr. Toyoda... so we know that lexus WILL get it's voice heard without going through levels and levels of management.
Running Lexus into the ground? Yeah ... I don't think so... I think this is the start of a turnaround - and I am very excited for what the 3IS will bring.
Last edited by GiantsFan; 08-31-11 at 01:17 AM.
08-31-11, 08:32 AM
#37
Pole Position
My take on this article is different. Akio Toyoda was going to kill the 4GS if they were going to half-*** it like they did with the 3GS, which IMO, was the biggest disaster in Lexus history.
Basically he said to the Lexus Team : "Do it right or don't do it at all."
The fact that he didn't kill the 4GS but proceeded with rolling it out means that he must feel that THIS TIME, the Lexus development team got the 4GS right, unlike the abortion that was the 3GS.
This article fills me with hope tbh. It means no more half-assed Lexus sedans. It means real-world driving dynamics before all else. It means cars that middle-class people with families can actually use, unlike that cramp-mobile that was 3GS.
Fact of the matter is, Akio Toyada made it a point to personally test-drive the 4GS and had direct input into its development. Unlike in the past,Lexus is no longer an exiled step-child within the Toyota hierarchy but is directly overseen by the head honcho of Toyota himself.
Basically he said to the Lexus Team : "Do it right or don't do it at all."
The fact that he didn't kill the 4GS but proceeded with rolling it out means that he must feel that THIS TIME, the Lexus development team got the 4GS right, unlike the abortion that was the 3GS.
This article fills me with hope tbh. It means no more half-assed Lexus sedans. It means real-world driving dynamics before all else. It means cars that middle-class people with families can actually use, unlike that cramp-mobile that was 3GS.
Fact of the matter is, Akio Toyada made it a point to personally test-drive the 4GS and had direct input into its development. Unlike in the past,Lexus is no longer an exiled step-child within the Toyota hierarchy but is directly overseen by the head honcho of Toyota himself.
08-31-11, 08:41 AM
#38
There is zero indication that the next generation SC is cancelled, the SC430 was just discontinued at 2010. Speciality model like the SC430 a lot of times don't have a replacement immediately. Not having a 2011 or 2012 don't mean that it is cancelled.
The V8 is just dropped from the normal line of GS for now, is not that serious. Everyone is down sizing cylinder count now a days, look at all the Europeans, pretty much every car is losing 2 cylinders on the new generation.
The V8 is just dropped from the normal line of GS for now, is not that serious. Everyone is down sizing cylinder count now a days, look at all the Europeans, pretty much every car is losing 2 cylinders on the new generation.
Lexus needs a sporty coupe. Period! Since they have shown they can't make an attractive hard top vert (ISC and SC430 just don't cut it), next try should be a regular fixed roof coupe. That's all it would have taken to make the SC430 and ISC much more attractive.
Lexus also needs the new SC to have more power than the last one. At least more quickness.
If they can't give us proper GT type cars, maybe they should start all over and produce only the cars that made their name...LS, ES and RX. They could concentrate on making these models top notch and sell a ton. Then they'd lose all of us here on CL but that would be fine, there are a lot of others out there now. I'd jump on a G37 in a heartbeat.
08-31-11, 08:46 AM
#39
Lead Lap
Yeah, the 3GS is a piece of ish.... 
08-31-11, 08:56 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
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yup, in regards to the 1st gen SC coupe, why they didn't pursue the market with such a obvious success is not understandable.
infiniti's g35 coupe and audi's a4 coupe market should be all of lexus's for the taking yet they let it go.
but now lexus toyota and other japanese car makes have a bigger problem, and that's the value of yet. If it keeps getting higher they will be squeezed out of any type of business.
infiniti's g35 coupe and audi's a4 coupe market should be all of lexus's for the taking yet they let it go.
but now lexus toyota and other japanese car makes have a bigger problem, and that's the value of yet. If it keeps getting higher they will be squeezed out of any type of business.
08-31-11, 06:45 PM
#41
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I agree with jtrue28. They F'ed up With the 4GS looking like a mutt car with the front looking like a nissan maxima, the headlight of an honda accord, slap on an lexus es rear end looking. What happen to the GS trademark 4 headlight front? IMO, I think the 4GS is gonna be a flop, so sad.
yup what did happen to the trademark with 4 headlights? I use to see the new E and i'm like wait till the new GS with 4 headlights..for sure it looks like they just rushed it out..loll
08-31-11, 07:21 PM
#42
Logically, from a marketing perspective, they decided that a cohesive headlight design was best for the brand. Why are so many people still stuck in the past?
I think if some of you were in charge of running Lexus, it'd be run into the ground.
08-31-11, 09:50 PM
#43
plus another reason why i think they can't do quad headlights anymore is that they need the space to do the led headlights (3 on each side) for the hybrid. with quad setup that's a little too hard
09-01-11, 04:19 AM
#44
This is all because of the stupid hybrids. They dedicate way too many resources to development of hybrids that there are no resources left for development of exciting cars.
Now, I have no problem with performance oriented hybrids such as GS-h and LS-h, but HS-h and CT-h are unbelievable waste and don't belong in Lexus line up by a mile.
I am very impressed with what I have seen of the 4GS so far, but I have a bad feeling they are going to release it and abandon it much like they did with 3GS.
Now, I have no problem with performance oriented hybrids such as GS-h and LS-h, but HS-h and CT-h are unbelievable waste and don't belong in Lexus line up by a mile.
I am very impressed with what I have seen of the 4GS so far, but I have a bad feeling they are going to release it and abandon it much like they did with 3GS.
09-01-11, 08:34 AM
#45
This is all because of the stupid hybrids. They dedicate way too many resources to development of hybrids that there are no resources left for development of exciting cars.
Now, I have no problem with performance oriented hybrids such as GS-h and LS-h, but HS-h and CT-h are unbelievable waste and don't belong in Lexus line up by a mile.
I am very impressed with what I have seen of the 4GS so far, but I have a bad feeling they are going to release it and abandon it much like they did with 3GS.
Now, I have no problem with performance oriented hybrids such as GS-h and LS-h, but HS-h and CT-h are unbelievable waste and don't belong in Lexus line up by a mile.
I am very impressed with what I have seen of the 4GS so far, but I have a bad feeling they are going to release it and abandon it much like they did with 3GS.
