*Batman*

Not everyone wants a super powerful car. Many people just drive posted speed limit plus ten and keep flow with traffic. Most BMWs are 528 and 535 models. I suspect the upcoming 4 cylinder front wheel drive A6 will be their best selling model.

So Lexus will be fine with the 6 cylinder. This car is so well equipped, it is going to sell very well. I suspect it will outsell the A6 in the US. But if they want to win the respect of petrol heads, then the GSF should come soon.

So far the reviews look great. I told my dad to replace my mom's ES350 with one of these in January. Although they may get the JX370 from Infiniti for the extra seats.

spwolf

it is really tall order to expect lexus to use vinyl, where it is well known that Lexus uses only real leather (except on CTh) and real wood. It is what makes Lexus an Lexus.

As to the DRLs sure... but Lexus had LED headlights first and Audi copied them, so what?

A6 is decent car, but it is not really an luxury benchmark, is it? It is FWD based vehicle afterall, when it doesnt use awd system (supplied by an Toyota company).

spwolf

i recall you being strong critic of GS before details were known, so I value your opinion on the car.

spwolf

http://www.autowereld.be/2011/07/23/...gs-450h-2011/#

Belgian report on GS450h:
- they estimate 50% bigger trunk than before for hybrid
- great balance between comfort and sport ("Comfortable as Mercedes but with BMW dynamics")
- hybrid very fast

ydooby

Thanks for the link. To clarify:
- They estimate 400L of trunk space, versus 280L in the current GS450h
- Without F-Sport the GS drives like the E-Class; with F-Sport, the GS drives like the 5-series.

84Cressida

MODERATOR EDIT. Post removed for ignoring requests to cease personal attacks and comments

84Cressida please exit this thread from this point forward

LexusMan77

Great news....it is the best of both worlds; comfort and sport. It is great Lexus is expanding the sport aspect and offering the F Sport as an additional "sport package" model instead of only as accessories.

spwolf

imho, f-sport models are best thing to happen to Lexus.
Here in Europe at least, IS200d F-Sport looks awesome, and it is quite different overall.

spwolf

sounds good as current GS is 430l... seems like hybrid wont have much of penalty anymore... i wish someone would take a pic of trunk :-)

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

While we have moved on from this, I just want to make a few points about Audi interiors since there is much conversation about how the GS stacks up against the A6 in this regard.

I think it would do you some justice to park comparable Lexus and Audis next to each other and examine their interiors side by side. I know you like and buy Audis, and quite frankly I was a big fan of Audi for a long time, but their interiors are extremely overhyped in my opinion.

I have been in the current A4 plenty of times and, every time, I'm left underwhelmed. I'll admit that I find the design to be quite ugly, but style is subjective so I don't hold that against the car. I am very particular about interiors, especially quality and materials and have no problem overlooking a design that I find to be ugly to say, "Hey...it's built well with top rate materials and first class workmanship, even if I don't like how it looks." The S Class is one such example - don't like how it looks, but hard to find any fault with how it's built.

Audi has always had interiors that are at or near the top of their class but I find their current crop of cars to be lacking, despite what most magazines and reviews would have you believe. When you sit in the new A4, the center stack is covered in extremely hard and brittle feeling plastic. The area around the CD player, AC vents, shifter and nav screen is all covered in the same cheap, hard painted plastic. The stuff around the window controls (on the door) is barely any better. The A5 is also much the same. When driving the car, I've also heard plenty of "ticks" and rubbing as the chassis flexes and these various pieces of plastic change position and rub together. Really not grasping for straws here - this has been the case with almost every current gen A4 that I've driven or been inside of, something to the tune of 8+ cars.

Have you ever knocked on the dash or the doors in an A4? It sounds curiously hollow. The material that they have put in these locations is very nice stuff to the touch and eye, but when you actually bang on it, it sounds rather thin.

The IS is quite simply old at this point. The plastic around the radio controls and on the door pulls feels a lot like the cheap, hard stuff that I referenced above about the A4. It's really no better or worse done than Audi. Go feel them back to back, and tell me if you disagree.

The plastics used on the top of the doors and dash are much softer in the IS. They look just as nice to the eye and feel just as refined when you run your hand across them, if not a bit nicer because they're a tad more pliable. The difference? Knock on the dash or door of an IS and it sounds solid. You're met with a "thud" instead of a peck like the A4.

Tit for tat, I think the interiors of the A4 and IS are pretty evenly matched. Lexus and Audi have cut corners and prioritized feel in different places, but the difference is that the IS is a six year old car at this point...the A4 is pretty new. IS gets ragged on for a plasticky interior...A4 does not. Very interesting, especially when you compare them side by side as I have done many times.

My next case in point is RX vs. Q5. My boss recently bought a loaded Q5 and refused to look at the RX because her mom has one (previous generation RX330) and she didn't want an "old lady car". She knows I'm a car guy so when she bought Q5, she let me take it out for a spin and gave me the keys to check it out. Much like the A4, the material on the top of the dash and doors is nice at first touch and pleasing to the eye, but it feels noticeably hollow once you really push on it. Touch the plastic around the nav screen, shifter or and audio controls...how expensive does that really feel? I'm pretty sure that if I blind folded you and had you run your finger over, rub, and apply pressure to pieces of the Audi interior, you'd be quite sure that they were from the "inferior" Lexus or perhaps worse.

I recently brought my GS in for service and was given a black on black RX 450h as a loaner. I forgot how nice the interior of the new RX was and as somewhat of a jab, I asked my boss if she wanted to go to lunch in the "old lady car". She laughed and agreed, and as even a 30-something woman who knows little to nothing about cars, she was shocked at how much nicer the materials in the RX felt than her Q5.

Once again, the dash and doors feel several inches thicker than the Q5. There is a deep thud when you knock on them...the Q5 sounds hard (because it is) and not nearly as thick. The material on the doors is particularly thin and cheap feeling on the Audi.

I'm not trying to pick on Audi and since you're relatively new to this forum, I feel like it's worth mentioning that short of being a troll, I've been one of the most outspokenly critical members towards Lexus in recent years. I will call Lexus on their errors and praise them when they get it right...I'd like to think I don't really wear the blinders that you'd expect on a Lexus forum or drink the kool-aid.

Let's face it: right now, hating Lexus has become about as en vogue as liking Audi. That's perfectly fine when you want to magsurf, but when you start talking to people who really know these cars as well as their competitors, I think the story is a little different.

I haven't been inside the new A6, but when I look at pictures, I see many of the same plastics and materials that I have in A4s and Q5s - no real surprise there. That infamous black plastic obviously resides around the audio and HVAC controls and the interior door panels look just about as flat and thin feeling as the aforementioned Audis. Of course, there are many things that look absolutely gorgeous like wood options and aluminum detailing. As Mr. Burns is saying, the GS is covered in leather where we see plastic in the A6...that isn't arguable. In fact, it looks like nearly every common touch point in the GS is covered in wood, leather, or both. I'd probably venture to guess that the interior surfaces of the A6 will also be harder to the touch and not quite as well insulated, if my experiences with the IS/A4 and Q5/RX are any indication. With that said, I'll wait until I can sit inside of both to make a decision.

You seem excited about the 4GS, but get very threatened with the A6 is mentioned in comparison. Audi makes great cars...so does Lexus, and this looks to be one of their best yet. At the end of the day, we win as consumers when competition gets this fierce so to be hashing out who has a nicer plastic, I kind of feel like we've already won

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

couple of thoughts...

first, it REALLY seems like lexus has worked very hard to address the biggest shortcomings of the GS - handling and interior/trunk space. huge props to lexus for listening!

second, perhaps that has necessitated a somewhat 'boxy' (less fluid/elegant) shape to the car, which they've tried to make interesting with lots of curvy details. of course the devil's in the details, and will wait to see final unveil, but the exterior looks like it will at least not be terrible like the last gen 5 series, for example.

i totally applaud lexus if they decide not to do a v8 for two reasons. 1) the current gs460 just doesn't sell and i don't think +30hp or something is going to make any difference. 2) i know traditionalists will howl, but if lexus wants to push the hybrid proudly, they should do so without apology. the current gs450h is definitely a fast car and a technological marvel, so a new gs450h can definitely be faster, and with better handling, a bigger trunk, and lighter weight, it could well be incredible.

Vladi

It also gives them an option to price the hybrid a lot more because there is no direct V8 comparison and its msrp will porbably shoot +60K to rival competition V8s.
There should not be any expectations that GSh witll match Infiniti Mh pricetag even thought they will probably have similar numbers in performance and fuel economy. GSh might have more standard equipment.

*Batman*

Just because magazines like the car doesn't mean it is good.

If auto magazines opinions were worth more than toilet paper, Lexus would not have been the best selling luxury brand through 2010, and Audi would not have been number 4 or 5.

I've sat in the C7 Audi A6 many times and I am convinced the interior feels cheaper than BMW, cheaper than Infiniti, cheaper than Mercedes, cheaper than Cadillac and cheaper than Jag. Too much low quality black plastic, little use of soft-touch material.

You disagree and put auto journalists to back up your argument. Well I put sales numbers behind my argument. The E-Class and 5 series totally trounce the A6 in sales, and I suspect the new Lexus will in the US.

J.P.

Everyone for the last time, stop making comments about other posters. Talk about the thread topic or exit the thread.

TorontoIS

I'm really looking forward to seeing the production GS. I think it is going to be very exciting. I like what we can see of the interior so far, I think people are going to be impressed with the styling and quality all around.