Questioning Reliability
08-02-16, 08:24 AM
#16
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You'd feel differently if you experienced some of the problems many BMW and/or MB owners face. When your car is in the shop every six to eight weeks AND you are nervous about taking it on a long road trip for fear of being stranded...you'll look back on your Lexus ownership very, very fondly.
As for 3 series, top four oddest issues (also had the usual stuff like oil leaks):
95 M3 - seven years old, speedometer unit in dash failed, whole thing had to be replaced.
2003 330i - four years old, had three separate issues with window actuators, which sound like the window is about to crack. Also the fan regulator decide to get a mind of its own, electronic control box had to be replaced.
2006 330i - four years old, the trim around the top of the windshield cracked and started to fall out, in order to replace the rubber trim the entire windshield had to be replaced too!
While I started this thread questioning reliability, I had more random stuff happen with BMWs. They never stranded me, however I got sick of the odd quality issues and that is a main reason I didn't buy a 5 series. The strut and radio issues reminded me of those days. Hopefully they were flukes and not an indicator of Lexus skipping on quality!
08-02-16, 08:27 AM
#17
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To the OP:
-Two issues which were covered under warranty were a peeling leather driver's seat and the supplement restraint system recall. These were done when my car had around 44k miles. No other issues as i'm currently riding out the remainder of my CPO warranty.
-None of the items mentioned are show stoppers in my humble opinion except for the leaking strut but i've heard folks on the forum with even less mileage have had their struts replaced under warranty with the 4GS.
-The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations.
@DallasDave: My uncle has owned two X5 BMW SUVs in the last 10 years. He has had lots of issues with electronics with the 2003 X5 he had. With is most current X5 which is five years old, it was a recent issue with his steering column making noise when turning the wheels all the way left/right and issues with his power driver seat not working/not moving correctly. They tried to fix it under warranty but he says steering/seat still has intermittent problems. He no longer has a full warranty so he just deals with it as is. He then said to me that the dealer said "we have a great offer for you on a brand new X5 as you make your last finance payment" and offered him such a low amount for his current SUV that my uncle just laughed and said you want me to buy another one after having so many issues with this one?? Not happening! Now, he drives the BMW on weekends and his daily driver is a 2005 Acura TL with 140k miles.
-Two issues which were covered under warranty were a peeling leather driver's seat and the supplement restraint system recall. These were done when my car had around 44k miles. No other issues as i'm currently riding out the remainder of my CPO warranty.
-None of the items mentioned are show stoppers in my humble opinion except for the leaking strut but i've heard folks on the forum with even less mileage have had their struts replaced under warranty with the 4GS.
-The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations.
@DallasDave: My uncle has owned two X5 BMW SUVs in the last 10 years. He has had lots of issues with electronics with the 2003 X5 he had. With is most current X5 which is five years old, it was a recent issue with his steering column making noise when turning the wheels all the way left/right and issues with his power driver seat not working/not moving correctly. They tried to fix it under warranty but he says steering/seat still has intermittent problems. He no longer has a full warranty so he just deals with it as is. He then said to me that the dealer said "we have a great offer for you on a brand new X5 as you make your last finance payment" and offered him such a low amount for his current SUV that my uncle just laughed and said you want me to buy another one after having so many issues with this one?? Not happening! Now, he drives the BMW on weekends and his daily driver is a 2005 Acura TL with 140k miles.
08-02-16, 08:33 AM
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DallasDave - wow! I am glad I didn't get a 5 series now!
We've had the same incredible reliability with our RX's. GS does not seem to that level but way better than what you describe with your 5 series experience!
We've had the same incredible reliability with our RX's. GS does not seem to that level but way better than what you describe with your 5 series experience!
08-02-16, 08:46 AM
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@Ajlex
"The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations."
The strut issue started as an odd thunk, I thought it was brake pads as they had just replaced them. Stevens Creek Lexus in San Jose got me a tech to drive with me, he heard it and thought it was plastic, and set about tightening all the front fasteners. They thought they had fixed it, didn't. I brought the car back, they gave me a loaner. Took three days to figure out it was the strut. Replaced under warranty, $0 in charges. It was a good experience, no complaints other than not having the car for a few days. My challenge is how much does that cost out of warranty? Gotta be $1000... Every few years I'm cool, and as the car gets older well you take your chances or live with it or get a new one. It's not bmw issues for sure - just made me think, which I had not expected to be doing when I put down $50k on this thing three plus years ago.
"The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations."
The strut issue started as an odd thunk, I thought it was brake pads as they had just replaced them. Stevens Creek Lexus in San Jose got me a tech to drive with me, he heard it and thought it was plastic, and set about tightening all the front fasteners. They thought they had fixed it, didn't. I brought the car back, they gave me a loaner. Took three days to figure out it was the strut. Replaced under warranty, $0 in charges. It was a good experience, no complaints other than not having the car for a few days. My challenge is how much does that cost out of warranty? Gotta be $1000... Every few years I'm cool, and as the car gets older well you take your chances or live with it or get a new one. It's not bmw issues for sure - just made me think, which I had not expected to be doing when I put down $50k on this thing three plus years ago.
08-02-16, 10:49 AM
#20
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Maybe you need to find a better dealer and service advisor...
08-02-16, 02:07 PM
#21
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@Ajlex
"The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations."
The strut issue started as an odd thunk, I thought it was brake pads as they had just replaced them. Stevens Creek Lexus in San Jose got me a tech to drive with me, he heard it and thought it was plastic, and set about tightening all the front fasteners. They thought they had fixed it, didn't. I brought the car back, they gave me a loaner. Took three days to figure out it was the strut. Replaced under warranty, $0 in charges. It was a good experience, no complaints other than not having the car for a few days. My challenge is how much does that cost out of warranty? Gotta be $1000... Every few years I'm cool, and as the car gets older well you take your chances or live with it or get a new one. It's not bmw issues for sure - just made me think, which I had not expected to be doing when I put down $50k on this thing three plus years ago.
"The most important part is how they dealer handles the issues and that the car meets your expectations."
The strut issue started as an odd thunk, I thought it was brake pads as they had just replaced them. Stevens Creek Lexus in San Jose got me a tech to drive with me, he heard it and thought it was plastic, and set about tightening all the front fasteners. They thought they had fixed it, didn't. I brought the car back, they gave me a loaner. Took three days to figure out it was the strut. Replaced under warranty, $0 in charges. It was a good experience, no complaints other than not having the car for a few days. My challenge is how much does that cost out of warranty? Gotta be $1000... Every few years I'm cool, and as the car gets older well you take your chances or live with it or get a new one. It's not bmw issues for sure - just made me think, which I had not expected to be doing when I put down $50k on this thing three plus years ago.
When my Lexus dealer responded to my recent complaints with defensiveness and lack of care as their service department responded poorly and had me basically "begging" for a return call, i've decided to support my local business by going to my local mechanic who I trust. Unless major components fail during my CPO period, i'm avoiding the dealership for service. I believe in the mechanical quality of the car because that speaks for itself...but the quality of the service and competency of the folks at the dealership is another story altogether. Glad to hear that your dealership is getting it right..if not the first time, at least they work with you to get it right and that goes a long way...fellow clublexus member rld14 said it best - sales sells the customer the first car, service sells them on the future second car.
08-02-16, 02:28 PM
#22
Originally Posted by dougm213
How about giving us the top 10? I've never considered the BMW or Mercedes because I've mostly heard disaster stories.
- valve head gasket
- front struts
- windshield gaskets cracking
- water condensation in the front headlights
- airbag malfunction
I changed the fuel injectors out of warranty until recently received a letter from Bmw USA for a recall campaign which I got reimbursed. I did read on the forums that several campaigns are going on the cars. Compared to Lexus replacing cracked/melting dashboards.
08-02-16, 02:35 PM
#23
Sorry to hear about your troubles but I don't think your experience is common from what I've seen. While German cars have attractive features I would want, I may still stay in Lexus family when it's time to get a replacement. For me, reliability is priority one and Lexus hasn't failed on that in our case.
08-03-16, 08:48 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
What you need to do is find a dealer and a service rep who cares more about providing good service than covering their own backside. That can be a process sometimes.
08-03-16, 06:32 PM
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The issue is not the warranty, its the dealer. The warranty is no different than any other company's warranty, what is clear is that Lexus is incredibly hard on dealers that agree to do warranty work that they (Lexus) later deem was not necessary. In short they put the onus on the dealer to determine what is and is not a warranty issue, and they leave their definition vague which leaves the dealer open to taking losses when Lexus won't pay them for work they've already done.
What you need to do is find a dealer and a service rep who cares more about providing good service than covering their own backside. That can be a process sometimes.
What you need to do is find a dealer and a service rep who cares more about providing good service than covering their own backside. That can be a process sometimes.
08-03-16, 06:48 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
They're still getting paid by Lexus to do that work. Even warranty work generates profits. It's also an opportunity for them to give you a great experience so you'll be more likely to buy your next car from them.
08-03-16, 06:50 PM
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08-03-16, 07:09 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by mrpink13
im wondering what incentive they have to honor warranty work if you're at a different dealer from where you originally purchased your car.
That's just it, they kind of have to put their beck out there and do it for you, and down the line when they submit to Lexus to get paid Lexus gives them a hard time. That's why dealers may resist doing warranty work.
I've owned cars from a wide variety of manufacturers, and I've found that Lexus dealers are unusually difficult to get warranty issues done through, and you do hear "it's supposed to be that way" a lot. Every other car company I've ever been a customer of just does warranty work without a second thought.
The only one more difficult than Lexus was Volkswagen.
08-04-16, 06:10 AM
#30
I won't highjack Dallasguy1's response, but here's a quick glimpse into my 2011 BMW 550 ownership. I purchased the car pre-owned, but it still had about a year's worth of original warranty.
I only owned the car for around 18 months but I got rid of it. You should also know that it wasn't just the problems with the car, it was the REPEAT problems AND the dealership's attitude. There were one or two professional Service Advisors, but most of them were jerks and I was always friendly and courteous.
Some would say that my 2011 550 had problems since it was the first year of that particular model, and they would be right. There's a lot of information on the BMW forums, a newly released BMW recall to replace the motors, and a potential class action suit all based on the 2011 models like mine.
But what about three years prior with my wife's 2008 528? AC not working well and excessive wind noise from closed sunroof. "Ma'am, you'll need to get used to it that's just how the 5 series cars are" said the Service Advisor. After escalating to the SM and calling our salesperson, we brought it in...the AC compressor was faulty AND there was a TSB on the sunroof seal!!
My 1995 540i (owned from 1998 to 2000) was as bad as the 2011 550. I was paying $550/month. I would drive the 540 for five weeks, then have a loaner for one week...that went on for two years. I'm making a big car payment and driving a Dodge Dakota (yes, I typed a Dakota) and/or a Pontiac Grand AM and/or a Toyota misc.
You guys have me going now! The 2014 550 was by far the best, but it too drank oil and had two unscheduled repair issues. When processing my lease return, "why are you returning it, it's a beautiful car and we will negotiate the price?" My response, "it's only 9,000 miles from being out of warranty and I've played that game before." "But you can purchase an extended warranty for around $5,000" Me, "So I'll purchase my leased car for around $50k, plus add $5,000 for the extended warranty?" His response, "yes, and if you do that we can waive the $350 lease re-letting fee!"
By comparison, my wife drove an RX for eight consecutive years (2000-2008). During that time we leased three different models (if memory serves me, it was the RX300, then another RX300, and finally the RX350). During that time, we had a battery go bad...once. And the local dealer came to the house and replaced it at no charge. I had a 2000 Acura RL for a couple of years. It never went to the shop during my entire ownership. My 2005 Acura RL had a few TSB/recalls, but once those were done it never went to the shop. Did my routine maintenance and drove it for years. Sold it to a friend and he loves it. Tires/gas/oil changes, that's it. Has over 140,000 miles on it. He knows the problems I've had with BMW's and would send me a text stating, "don't feel bad, the RL has an alert message that just popped up too." He'd send a pic of the low fuel warning light. lol, bastard
- Drank a quart of oil every 3,000 miles or so. Dealer said that's normal and I would stop by the dealership about every eight weeks (when the Add Oil message would appear) and they would add it for free. The guys in the service bay would tell me they get cars in all the time for the very same thing. We'd laugh about it as it was like doing a pit stop, you wouldn't even have to get out of your car.
- Radiator replacement under warranty
- Lower radiator hose sensor replaced under warranty
- Lower radiator hose replaced out of warranty for $750
- Battery (out of warranty) was $450 to replace, as the car needs to be "recoded" when the unit is replaced
- Fuel injectors and spark plugs replaced under warranty.
- Power steering rack replaced under warranty
- Dealer over tightened the lug bolts and broke the keyed bolt. Had to drill it out and damaged the wheel.
- Squeaky brakes - no apparent fix
- Fuel injectors the second time
I only owned the car for around 18 months but I got rid of it. You should also know that it wasn't just the problems with the car, it was the REPEAT problems AND the dealership's attitude. There were one or two professional Service Advisors, but most of them were jerks and I was always friendly and courteous.
Some would say that my 2011 550 had problems since it was the first year of that particular model, and they would be right. There's a lot of information on the BMW forums, a newly released BMW recall to replace the motors, and a potential class action suit all based on the 2011 models like mine.
But what about three years prior with my wife's 2008 528? AC not working well and excessive wind noise from closed sunroof. "Ma'am, you'll need to get used to it that's just how the 5 series cars are" said the Service Advisor. After escalating to the SM and calling our salesperson, we brought it in...the AC compressor was faulty AND there was a TSB on the sunroof seal!!
My 1995 540i (owned from 1998 to 2000) was as bad as the 2011 550. I was paying $550/month. I would drive the 540 for five weeks, then have a loaner for one week...that went on for two years. I'm making a big car payment and driving a Dodge Dakota (yes, I typed a Dakota) and/or a Pontiac Grand AM and/or a Toyota misc.
You guys have me going now! The 2014 550 was by far the best, but it too drank oil and had two unscheduled repair issues. When processing my lease return, "why are you returning it, it's a beautiful car and we will negotiate the price?" My response, "it's only 9,000 miles from being out of warranty and I've played that game before." "But you can purchase an extended warranty for around $5,000" Me, "So I'll purchase my leased car for around $50k, plus add $5,000 for the extended warranty?" His response, "yes, and if you do that we can waive the $350 lease re-letting fee!"
By comparison, my wife drove an RX for eight consecutive years (2000-2008). During that time we leased three different models (if memory serves me, it was the RX300, then another RX300, and finally the RX350). During that time, we had a battery go bad...once. And the local dealer came to the house and replaced it at no charge. I had a 2000 Acura RL for a couple of years. It never went to the shop during my entire ownership. My 2005 Acura RL had a few TSB/recalls, but once those were done it never went to the shop. Did my routine maintenance and drove it for years. Sold it to a friend and he loves it. Tires/gas/oil changes, that's it. Has over 140,000 miles on it. He knows the problems I've had with BMW's and would send me a text stating, "don't feel bad, the RL has an alert message that just popped up too." He'd send a pic of the low fuel warning light. lol, bastard