MTerrence

As a former Honda owner, I'll admit that I previously came from a brand that is not well known for its quality brakes.


With that said, the brakes on my 2013 GS 350 AWD seem really good to me. I had been considering a brake upgrade (to look cool filling out the big wheels and, hopefully, improve safety) but I'm honestly not sure there's a point if the car's not tracked.


I know that there isn't as much mod support for the AWD 350s, but I do recall that RR Racing makes a Wilwood BBK for this model and sells it at a pretty good price. Has anyone done this upgrade? How much of a difference does it make for everyday driving?
As a second comment, has anyone considered buying the parts from the nice Brembo 380mm/6-pot, 343mm/4-pot braking system off of an RC-F or GS-F and putting them on a regular GS? Is that something that could be done, or is it something that's even worth doing?

(On a related note, does anyone know what this thing actually weighs with all the options? Lexus says 3,970lbs, but that's with no packages equipped; surely the adaptive cruise control, variable suspension, multi-way seats, sunshades, night-vision equipment, power trunk motor, etc. etc. must weigh something. She's a heavy beast for sure! Has a good 500 pounds on my old Accord even though they're the same size externally.)

GregCanada

There are a couple BBK's available for this car - they are $3500+++
Personally i don't think they are needed, stock brakes are more than adequate. if i tracked it, i would upgrade.

Plus, you will need 19" minimum rims with a BBK.

Afrosheen

Not sure but the F Sport fronts may fit, but plan on getting 19's to clear them. Then if you really want to blow money, the actual GS F parts may also fit. I think those are Brembo's.

MTerrence

Just thought I'd resurrect this thread rather than pollute the forums with a duplicate. I know for a fact that the OP doesn't mind. :-p

I've been driving my GS for a bit over a year now, and I've put about 23,000 more miles on it in the interim. The brakes are still solid, steady and confident. But the appeal of a big brake kit, whether RR Racing's Wilwood setup or Stoptech's two-piece kit, keeps coming back into my head. Looking at the statistics done by e.g. Consumer Reports, it looks like the non F-sport GS may have left 10 or so feet on the table in the 60-0 versus its Teutonic competition, and that's just with all-season tires. (the F-sport, between the summer tires and the bigger brakes, does better). It also hurts me deep inside to have smaller brakes than a Ford Taurus.

I don't track my car, but I've got a bit of money saved up and can't help but think that a BBK would be a fun way to spend it. Would more aggressive pads (recommendations wanted) and a set of high-quality rotors (EBCs maybe?) be a more intelligent way to spend the money for the same results?

Does anyone here have a BBK on their car, or have done other brake upgrades? I'd love to hear about it, if so. Thanks a lot in advance.

k0kong

10 feet in braking distance does sound like a lot but there are various factors involved like car weight, tires, and wheel weight that factor into that as well. The GS already comes standard with 4 piston calipers, pair that with stoptech pads and you have a solid combination. Some SUVS only have 2 piston calipers including the new Lexus RX. When I had that as a loaner i could not believe how bad stopping distance was. Obviously comparing to a RWD F sport, the normal AWD model may not seem to perform well but they do, maybe you need new rotors and pads and maybe a fluid flush to regain the lost braking power.

When you drive the car do you feel as though you're not stopping in time?

MTerrence

To be honest, this car has the best brakes of any car I've ever owned - but that's pretty easy to say, coming from a string of much cheaper cars and Hondas. I don't have any reason to say that I'm not stopping in time. Even stock, the GS has rotors that're 2" larger than my '05 Accord both front and back, for example.

When I opened this thread back in 2016, I really gave it the wrong name. The Lexus GS doesn't need a big brake kit. What I should have asked is as follows: would the GS *benefit* from a big brake kit and, if so, how?

I guess at this number of miles I'm looking at having to replace my pads for sure and my rotors maybe, and if I can spend a bit more to get (for example) the RR Racing kit, I'm naturally curious to know if it'd do any good.

songoku

I've seen a few members selling their used Brembo kit (Both front & back) for about 4,500 ~ 5,000. These kit easily go 7,000+ new.

I've also seen GS-F brake kit sold here in classified section for $4,500 used.

These are not cheap upgrade.

You could get RR Racing BBK kit for about 2,500 (1500 frt & 1000 rear).

Staggered3 has RR racing BBK on rear with stock front.

You could ask him if there is a noticeable improvement.

Good luck.

Ak1m0to

I would upgrade and get better pads first before shelling out thousands of dollars on a BBK.
Unless you track or making loads of HP, there really is no need.

Tilter48

I'm curious, has anyone heard of someone upgrading an AWD F Sport's front brakes with the RWD F Sport's larger front brakes?

It seems a little unfair that all versions of the F Sport don't get the larger front brakes. Just because someone has an AWD version doesn't mean they won't run high performance summer & winter tires instead of all-season tires.

MTerrence

As a matter of fact, I have heard of someone making this attempt - right here on this forum. You'd think it would make sense; it's a factory brake upgrade, and it's cheaper than most BBKs. And there's probably not too much of a difference between the standard BBK (14" rotors with a 6-piston caliper) and the F-Sport RWD setup (14" rotors with a 4-pison caliper). Unfortunately, it didn't work out for the guy who was giving it a shot. Here's the thread wherein he discusses his failure.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...ng-brakes.html

Honestly, Ak1m0t0's suggestion to consider a pad upgrade first probably makes more sense. Does anyone know the coefficient of friction rating (e.g. EE, GG) for the GS350 AWD's stock pads?

Staggered3

If you are considering upgrading your wheels I would definitely say upgrade the brakes as well. However if you are keeping your same wheels the Stocks setup is sufficient and I would definitely just look into getting a better set of pads. Stopping is the most important thing, especially when you change wheels, 10 feet makes a big difference when a child runs out in front of you and that is what I have always looked at. I chose to upgrade to the bigger rear brakes and always never cheapen out on a set of tires because I know those are the two things that work in conjunction when stopping the vehicle. I am not sure about the setup for the AWD, I though all GS Had the same front brake caliper and 2 piece rotor, but if it fits the rear upgrade will cost you less than 1000 for wilwood calipers and that is not a bad deal at all especially comparing to true BBK such as 385 and 405 mm rotors and 8 piston calipers... looks great... but overkill unless you are tracking the car.., hope that helps

MTerrence

Thanks staggered3. Nah, I'm probably going to stick with my stock wheels, which puts an upper limit on rotor size for sure. I live in Canada and it's a bit unfeasible in this climate to go too big on the wheels; I'll need winter tires half of the year one way or the other, and paying out the nose for them is hardly attractive. Plus the potholes, compliance issues, etc. that come along with rubber band tires.

Unfortunately, only the RWD GS350 F-sports got the upgraded brakes. Everything else, including AWD F-sport models, has 13.1" front one-piece brake rotors, and very slightly smaller calipers than are used on the F-sport model. I don't know if that's cost savings in action or a concession for all six of the GS350s that were sold with the base model 17" wheels or what. Accordingly the F-sport model stops considerably faster in tests than the base model; how much of that is due to the brake system design, pad choice, and tire choice is hard to say, especially as I'm stuck comparing between different magazines and different drivers. So when I see that Consumer Reports took a regular model from 60-0 in 137 feet while Road & Track stopped an F-sport in 105 feet at the same speed, I can't really say why.

I absolutely agree that braking is of critical importance, which is why this is the only mod I'm really considering. I'll have to see how my rotors are when I get my pads changed. If they're lunched already, I'd be much more willing to consider an upgrade.

MTerrence

Just to add something about the regular vs. F-sport brakes: Edmunds did a cool suspension walk around for the F-sport model (https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-lexus-gs-350-f-sport-suspension-walkaround.html) and stated that the pads on the F-sport front brakes were apparently 32% larger than on the non-F-sport variety. No idea what the actual difference in piston area is, though, which would be more relevant to clamping force. (Though given the slightly larger rotor diameter, the F-sport will always produce a bit more braking torque - all else being equal - due to mechanical advantage.)