Johnny Rad

How will Lexus respond? They can't afford to sit still with their GS in the low 300hp range, can they?!

I'm a Lexus homer through and through. I'm not advocating the new big motored Q50, but Lexus has clearly been outflanked. The current GS powerplant largely hails from the '07 3rd-gen GS. The tranny barely added an extra forward gear over that vintage, too. Their "new" 200t powerplant is a sick joke that falls flat during the ongoing horsepower war. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

I somewhat applaud Lexus for bringing out the GS-F, but it's an >$85k low volume halo model. It's not intended to be mainstream whereas the big motored Q50 appears to be (this article calls it an Eau Rouge Lite). I'll admit to jumping the gun with the assumption the new hi-po Q50 will be less than the GS-F, but I'm left wondering how Lexus will respond. Does Lexus split the difference in the GS between their V6 and the GS-F? Or, does Lexus reduce the pricepoint (and content?) of the GS-F to compete head-to-head? Or, something altogether different?!

All I want for Christmas is an awd GS-F for an Eau Rouge Lite price. Without the crazy two-tone int scheme. That's all I want. Are you listening, Lexus? It's your move.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/15/2...o-v6-official/

ARM350F

The IS is meant to take on the Q50 which it does quite well and actually beat the Q50 on a motortrend head 2 head. The GS-F would be overkill in an comparison. Plus a 400hp Q50 is rather close to M3, C63, ATSV territory and surely most people rather spend a bit more and get one of those.

I am biased though since I hate the Q50 with every fiber in my body.

webra

I think Lexus has worked out very carefully where maximum profits are...and placed its products in between German offerings. Thus for some enthusiasts (And loyal Lexus followers) the result is a lacklustre range that looks fast but doesn't go that fast. So the real enthusiasts look elsewhere, since it seems they are paying not much more than lip service to superior performance, riding on the kudos of the LFA. Maybe Infiniti caught on to this....

Being more durable than the Germans doesn't demonstrate any superiority if the cars are so much slower (RC200t vs428i). Being more durable, more green yet perform better would be the real deal, otherwise it's six vs half a dozen. Since the profits are still rolling in, I doubt they feel a need to respond at all. They are comfortable where they are.

gyrase321

Doesn't the ISF fit the description of the car you are looking for? It was in production not too long ago. Did you buy one when it was available?

Johnny Rad

Good point on profitability. Lexus is indeed doing rather well in the sales dept, so the strategy I'm advocating doesn't carry much weight at least in the near-term. There's loads of folks (sheeple?) who seem happy to just have the badge instead of the entire package. Reference entry-level offerings from Lexus and other luxury nameplates.

As someone who highly values "get up and go" and Lexus' well-earned reliability track record, I'm disappointed there are so few choices in their current line-up. Their F-Sport packages and offerings are not the answer as all but the RC-F and GS-F utilize the same powerplants as their "base" offerings. I miss the Lexus of old that once featured the world's fastest production sedan in the 2GS4, their first hybrid GS that leaned slightly in favor of perf vs mpg (in comparison to their "updated version), a v8-powered hard top convertible, etc.

With respect to the Q50 competing against the IS, my argument still stands. The IS and GS are now both hopelessly outclassed against the upcoming Infiniti hi-po twin turbo six. I am continually amazed to see Lexus clinging to its same old, same old 3.5L V6 year in and year out.

If Lexus zigged with its lower output 200t offering to cater to one end of the buying spectrum, I still believe Infiniti zagged with its new hi-po twin turbo six. Time will tell which manufacturer got it right, but ask Infiniti how their G25 performed in the market. My contention stands that Lexus must respond with an updated and uprated powerplant(s) ASAP or become irrelevant to enthusiasts.

Johnny Rad

No, I didn't care for the small IS that it was based on. It's metal-like int trim was atrocious only to be outdone by its truck-like ride. Plus, it was RWD-only. Even so, I certainly thought about it!

I'm a GS buyer: the IS is too small and the LS is too big. The GS is just right size-wise for me.

gyrase321

Isn't the Q50 in the same class as the IS? That's how the car mags classify them. I've not read of the Q50 being compared to the GS as they are seen to belong to different segments.

Johnny Rad

Ok, but my argument still stands. The IS and GS are now both hopelessly outclassed against the upcoming Infiniti hi-po twin turbo six. I'm not willing to give a pass to the GS because the Q may be cross-shopped against the IS and GS. Be it the IS or GS, I'm continually amazed to see Lexus clinging to its same old, same old 3.5L V6 year in and year out.

With this many thread views and so few posts, I sadly accept that I'm in the minority on this one and stand down. With sales seemingly validating Lexus' apathetic stance towards class-leading performance, I'm afraid that I may never get another Lexus and that truly saddens me.

Happy holidays.

gyrase321

The GSF fits the bill. Size, fit and finish, power in the 400+ range...this matches or beats the Q50 400hp car. The GSF I believe is going on sale already. Not sure I understand what it is you're looking for.

jjscsix

This is the only forum I have ever been on where people insist on putting cars in narrowly defined competitive classes. I really do not believe for a second that the 400 hp Q50 will cost within $25,000 of a GSF, and there is no ISF. So let's quit talking about those cars.

I think it will find its own niche, and I'm a prime target. It will likely be the most affordable 400 hp car that gets decent gas mileage, Japanese reliability and nimble handling. The only cars that I think have comparable performance at a similar price range are the Chevy SS and Charger SRT8. And they are too big, too thirsty, and too American for my taste.

gyrase321

Pricing of this 400hp Q50 is speculative at this point, hence non-actionable. But it's important to point out that the OP's premise that the GS and IS are "outflanked and outclassed" by Infiniti for not offering power trains in the 400hp range is factually incorrect. Those power trains have in fact been available in the form of the ISF and GSF, and if the OP didn't buy them, it's not because they are not available. Infiniti makes fun cars, I would even consider this new q50 when it arrives, but that's irrelevant to my point that Lexus cars with the powertrains desired by the OP already exist.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Nice click-bait title...

Lexus's 2.0T is a base engine with 241hp and 258lbft. Infiniti's new base engine on the Q50 is a 2.0T sourced from Benz with the same 208hp and 258lbft as the CLA250.

Q50 will come in 2.0T (208hp), 3.0TT (300hp), 3.5 V6 Hybrid (354hp) and 3.0TT (400hp)

Johnny Rad

Let me put the closing of my original post a different way. I want an awd GS that isn't dog slow. A ~300hp V6 from essentially an '06 GS ain't going to cut it.

The new TT 6 offering from Infiniti is but another example in a growing line of cars that put out significantly better perf #'s. Think Audi S, Caddy V-Sport, AMG's Jr. Line, etc. Most are awd. As a Lexus homer, I'd so much rather have a Lexus - but, what are my choices?

I'm dreaming, but one option is an awd GS-F. Another option is something slotted between the current GS350 and the GS-F. Does anybody else see a better / different option?

gyrase321

For the comparable GS models, these are 2.0T (241hp), v6 (311hp), v6 hybrid (338hp), and v8 (467hp). Don't see where Lexus was "outclassed or outflanked" by Infiniti here. These are similar numbers with an advantage to Lexus on the mainstream models (turbo and regular v6), and the performance one (v8). Pricing competitiveness of the top end Infiniti remains to be seen. Also, HP isn't everything, other factors come into play (eg reliability).

Johnny Rad

While Lexus is pushing further down market with its 200t GS, Infiniti is stretching it's offerings on both ends of the spectrum.

As one poster noted, we have no idea what the Q50 will cost with the new TT 6. I'll bet my bottom dollar it'll be significantly less than the ultra low volume "halo" GS-F. For all intents and purposes, I don't believe the GS-F will be relevant given its price point and scarcity.