ItzFilyO

Turbo engines are more complex to repair and maintain right?

rijc99

Not necessarily more complex. More heat, more plumbing, higher cylinder pressures, higher operating temps, etc. More parts to fail. Turbos, oil cooler, turbo lines, waste gates.

ItzFilyO

More parts to fail. That's good enough for me, that's bad juju.

Gruu

Blaze, those are fair questions, and viewpoints like yours were exactly what I was hoping to read and understand, so thank you. You are absolutely correct, of course, that 0-60 times are not the end-all, be-all of car buying. As it happens, I care a great deal about reliability because I keep my cars for a very long time, and I also think that the GS looks better than the BMW. (I have a friend with a recent 535, and BMW has made great strides in interior design but I still prefer the GS interior.)

I'm actually leaning towards getting the GS 350 AWD rather than the 200t, since I want AWD, more power, and a more engaging ride than my 2005 ES 330 that I've had for over a decade. My comment was more related to the fact that the GS 350's 0-60 is comparable to the BMW 535, and in addition to that it also has better handling, a nicer interior and exterior, better reliability, and so forth. Since the GS is, after all, in the luxury sport sedan segment, I would assume that most potential buyers give more weight to the 0-60 times than buyers in other segments. The GS 350 makes this a non-issue in the calculus, while the GS 200t's relative slowness creates a more complex trade-off situation.

jjscsix

Todays turbos should not present any unusual reliability problems. They have come a long way over the years.

rijc99

Tell that to BMW. Their turbos still regularly fail.

peteharvey

BMW turns its boost up high to out-accelerate the similar weight GS200t and E250 from 0-60 1 second faster, so BMW must pay the price in reliability...

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

You're welcome and what you say makes complete sense. I also consider reliability at the top of my list. I also do prefer the GS interior but I prefer the 5 series exterior (not sure about the 2016 GS as yet, need to see it in person).
Although the specs look similar for both 528 and 200t, bmw always underrates their engines. I would not be surprised if the bmw actually has 20-25 more hp and torque than stated. This might be 1 of the reasons the BMW is 1 sec faster to 60. Personally, I think I would prefer the 350 too, however I would not rule out a 200t.
One think you should consider is, lexus could not make the 200t any faster for the sole reason of it being too close in performance numbers to the 350 (gs350 does around 5.6 to 60 right?). If the 200t was closer to 6 seconds to 60, performance and financially wise, it would not make much sense to go with the gs350.
I think after a new engine comes out for the gs350 then Lexus may make a power bump for the 200t.

ls430lover

its not only 1 second quicker, the car gets 27 combined and at 70 with cruise no air gets 42 mpg try that in a gs

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, if the bmw averaged 42 mpg highway I am sure BMW would advertise it as so. Anyway, the GS200t is not out as yet so no one can try that in a GS as yet.

jjscsix

I don't buy that. They have had some known problems, but not with the turbo. I just had a 550 for three years and lived on the forum. There are a gazillion cars out there with turbos and there are very few problems.

QuentinB

I haven't seen any instrumented tests for the GS200t. Using the manufacturer numbers for 0-60 is pretty much useless. Are both using a rollout? Who knows. Let Motor Trend or Car and Driver test them together to actually compare.

rijc99

Buy it or not just search "failure turbo bmw 335" and you'll see plenty of them. Many examples of waste gate, turbo seals, turbo whine, turbo whistle out there. BMW even retuned their software on delivered cars in an effort to save the turbos from failing. In fact, my friend's 09 335 is in the shop now for bank 1 turbo failure. 550 also had their issues too.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=turbo+failure
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/12/c...afe-causes-un/

Your F10 was 3 years old and probably returned at 30-36,000 miles? I would hope you didn't have significant problems in that kind of time frame. However, I wouldn't be surprised. My 2013 X5 35i had 35,000 when I returned it and it was slipping 2nd and 3rd gear along with a turbo line oil leak.

metrathon

This is pointless. For every person with a turbo failure, I can point to 10 others that had no problems whatsoever, me being one of them. Where does that leave us? You should get used to forced induction because in 5 yrs all Lexus engines will go turbo.

Ppl that buy BMW don't expect Lexus reliability nor care about it. You're covered with a 6-yr warranty, all you wanna do is mash that turbo and have fun. Pretty much the same way ppl that want a Lexus don't care about the 1s difference. They want reliability and good value for the money.
That being settled, there's no question that BMW implementation of turbo technology is the best in the industry: fastest cars, most frugal. Also the ZF tranny is nothing short of magic. It shifts like an F1 car. I test drove X3 28i and NX200t back to back, there's no contest. The NX was slow and shifts were lazy.

I think the enthusiastic Lexus owners should participate in the annual BMW drive test event. They let you drive any BMW, alone, and then drive a similar car from the competition. It is a very interesting experience.

rijc99

So, I guess there are no issues with Takata air bags or any other recalled items right? Since they weren't 100% failure rates and you can point out 10 people who didn't have problems with them?

Someone said BMW turbos aren't a known problem nor are they mentioned in forums, I'm simply pointing out that there are numerous instances of them failing. BMW themselves detuned their computers to deal with turbo issues.

For every BMW owner you point to me that says they don't expect Lexus reliability nor care about it, I can point to 10 others that does, me being one of them. Where does that leave us?(Sound familiar? ) And in reading the posts of some here... I think some people might care about the 1s.

BTW. No need for BMW drive test event, I have a 15 535i MSport and 14 GS FSport, the GS drives and handles better. Many people echo this sentiment. Also, I got used to turbos back in the 90's when they were the rage in import sports cars.