Lexus debuts 2016 GS F (Pictures Starting on Page 8)
10-14-15, 11:54 AM
#901
Driver School Candidate
I'm not as familiar with M5 pricing, but that starts in the mid-$90s and again, I'm pretty sure you can price out a nicely equipped M5 in the mid $105K range, again before any negotiated discount.
Both of those offer a whole lot more performance for probably only a $10K or less difference in landed price, at least initially while the Lexus dealers are likely unwilling to negotiate. I realize that $10K is not a trivial sum of money, but when you start nearing 6 figures for a car, it's really not that much.
10-14-15, 01:05 PM
#903
so? does the gsf have pano roof? able to build e63 and m5 to over 110 doesn't mean anything. one can easily argue that those cars might have options that the gsf doesn't even have. having both similarly equipped and that's a much more meaningful comparison.
10-14-15, 01:09 PM
#904
Driver School Candidate
I'd be interested to see your build because on the E63, you can't get to $110K unless you select the exterior carbon package or ceramic brakes... or by adding an "illuminated star", heated rear seats, rear entertainment, designo colors, piano lacquer wood, and other sundry items not applicable to the Lexus. None of those make the e63 comparable to the lexus, nor would I consider an E63 without those things to be a "stripper model". Like porsche (but to a much lesser degree), MB allows a level of customization that doesn't apply or compare to the Lexus.
Best I can tell with knowing the exact specs of the GS-F, to get an E63 comparable to the Lexus you would probably need to add the rear sunshades ($380) and driver assistance package ($2800) to end up with a very nicely equipped E63 at $105,805. I'd bet you could easily get that car for $100K without too much negotiation.
Time will tell, but I will bet after flushing out the initial early adopters, the GS-F at $85K is going to move even slower than the RC-F has for $20K less. There's just too much competition from above with much better performance (E63, M5, CTS-V) or with similar performance at a lower price (S6, 550i, CTS Vsport).
I'm actually a big fan of Lexus and I write this somewhat out of frustration because I really wanted a GS-F. I just can't bring myself to spend close to $90K on one with the other options that price point opens up. I think they came in about $10K too high (perhaps with some of the difference able to be bridged if they had offered a less "loaded" base model)
Best I can tell with knowing the exact specs of the GS-F, to get an E63 comparable to the Lexus you would probably need to add the rear sunshades ($380) and driver assistance package ($2800) to end up with a very nicely equipped E63 at $105,805. I'd bet you could easily get that car for $100K without too much negotiation.
Time will tell, but I will bet after flushing out the initial early adopters, the GS-F at $85K is going to move even slower than the RC-F has for $20K less. There's just too much competition from above with much better performance (E63, M5, CTS-V) or with similar performance at a lower price (S6, 550i, CTS Vsport).
I'm actually a big fan of Lexus and I write this somewhat out of frustration because I really wanted a GS-F. I just can't bring myself to spend close to $90K on one with the other options that price point opens up. I think they came in about $10K too high (perhaps with some of the difference able to be bridged if they had offered a less "loaded" base model)
10-14-15, 01:18 PM
#905
I'd be interested to see your build because on the E63, you can't get to $110K unless you select the exterior carbon package or ceramic brakes... or by adding an "illuminated star", heated rear seats, rear entertainment, designo colors, piano lacquer wood, and other sundry items not applicable to the Lexus. None of those make the e63 comparable to the lexus, nor would I consider an E63 without those things to be a "stripper model". Like porsche (but to a much lesser degree), MB allows a level of customization that doesn't apply or compare to the Lexus.
Best I can tell with knowing the exact specs of the GS-F, to get an E63 comparable to the Lexus you would probably need to add the rear sunshades ($380) and driver assistance package ($2800) to end up with a very nicely equipped E63 at $105,805. I'd bet you could easily get that car for $100K without too much negotiation.
Time will tell, but I will bet after flushing out the initial early adopters, the GS-F at $85K is going to move even slower than the RC-F has for $20K less. There's just too much competition from above with much better performance (E63, M5, CTS-V) or with similar performance at a lower price (S6, 550i, CTS Vsport).
I'm actually a big fan of Lexus and I write this somewhat out of frustration because I really wanted a GS-F. I just can't bring myself to spend close to $90K on one with the other options that price point opens up. I think they came in about $10K too high (perhaps with some of the difference able to be bridged if they had offered a less "loaded" base model)
Best I can tell with knowing the exact specs of the GS-F, to get an E63 comparable to the Lexus you would probably need to add the rear sunshades ($380) and driver assistance package ($2800) to end up with a very nicely equipped E63 at $105,805. I'd bet you could easily get that car for $100K without too much negotiation.
Time will tell, but I will bet after flushing out the initial early adopters, the GS-F at $85K is going to move even slower than the RC-F has for $20K less. There's just too much competition from above with much better performance (E63, M5, CTS-V) or with similar performance at a lower price (S6, 550i, CTS Vsport).
I'm actually a big fan of Lexus and I write this somewhat out of frustration because I really wanted a GS-F. I just can't bring myself to spend close to $90K on one with the other options that price point opens up. I think they came in about $10K too high (perhaps with some of the difference able to be bridged if they had offered a less "loaded" base model)
it's going to be hard to find though
10-14-15, 01:21 PM
#906
I didnt pick any of those, it can rocket over 130k if I wanted. But I picked the 19" black wheels $500, B&O audio $5400, Driver Assistance Package $2800 and its already $111k. An RCF at 65k is stripped to hell to the point of it being completely undesireable. Who the heck would get an RCF without the premium package?
Regardless the AMG, M cars tank hard in value, much moreso than a regular car. Maybe this GSF too. Buy one in a year or 2.
Regardless the AMG, M cars tank hard in value, much moreso than a regular car. Maybe this GSF too. Buy one in a year or 2.
10-14-15, 01:22 PM
#907
Driver School Candidate
Agreed. Unfortunately, i have a lease expiring in February. While I knew the GS-F was going to be a long-shot from a timing standpoint (they will have just launched when I'm in the market so I expect there will be NO deals), seeing the actual pricing and now KNOWING the GS-F is off the table has left me a bit frustrated.
10-14-15, 01:46 PM
#908
Driver School Candidate
Yeah, and I can configure a $52K Porsche Boxster to be $106K by going crazy checking all the boxes. Like Porsche, but to a much lesser degree, MB allows a much greater level of random options and customization than does lexus. Much of the customization is not even available in the Lexus, nor are models without those options "stripper models". In any event, I'm probably being overly argumentative out of frustration so I'll stop.
I do agree with you on the depreciation of both M cars and AMG (moreso AMG) and I will definitely look at ~2 year old m5/E63s when my lease comes due in February.
I do agree with you on the depreciation of both M cars and AMG (moreso AMG) and I will definitely look at ~2 year old m5/E63s when my lease comes due in February.
10-14-15, 08:00 PM
#909
Racer
only 2000 for 2016 or all together for production years?
it should be produced in limited quanitites unlike the rcf and like the supra mkiv.
that being said, i may wait for the 2018 supra to come out...
it should be produced in limited quanitites unlike the rcf and like the supra mkiv.
that being said, i may wait for the 2018 supra to come out...
10-14-15, 08:32 PM
#911
Pole Position
As far as the E63, outside of ceramic brakes and carbon fiber exterior/engine cover, there really aren't that many options... pano roof for $1K, driver assistance for $3K (or just blind spot/lane tracking for ~$1K which is what I would go with). So you can easily be in the ~$105K range for a nicely equipped E63 BEFORE negotiating any discount.
I'm not as familiar with M5 pricing, but that starts in the mid-$90s and again, I'm pretty sure you can price out a nicely equipped M5 in the mid $105K range, again before any negotiated discount.
Both of those offer a whole lot more performance for probably only a $10K or less difference in landed price, at least initially while the Lexus dealers are likely unwilling to negotiate. I realize that $10K is not a trivial sum of money, but when you start nearing 6 figures for a car, it's really not that much.
I'm not as familiar with M5 pricing, but that starts in the mid-$90s and again, I'm pretty sure you can price out a nicely equipped M5 in the mid $105K range, again before any negotiated discount.
Both of those offer a whole lot more performance for probably only a $10K or less difference in landed price, at least initially while the Lexus dealers are likely unwilling to negotiate. I realize that $10K is not a trivial sum of money, but when you start nearing 6 figures for a car, it's really not that much.
Why all this angst when you haven't even driven any of these cars?
Isn't the most important factor how it makes you feel when you drive them--does it put a smile on your face?
Otherwise all this posturing and declamations just make it seem like you've made up your mind based purely on specs and then everything else thereafter is justification, driving experience be damned.
Not targeting you personally but my maxim is : "Test Drives are free."
******
PS : seems like the Euro mags are up to their Eurocentric bias again. I notice how so many skirt around the fact that the GS F outhandles the German M5/RS6 and keep on harping on how the German cars have more "Breadth in abilities" as if these cars are built to be grocery getters for their primary purpose.
It's as if it would kill them to admit that Lexus builds a better driver's car than their precious Germans...
Last edited by natnut; 10-14-15 at 08:40 PM.
10-14-15, 09:28 PM
#912
Why all this angst when you haven't even driven any of these cars?
Isn't the most important factor how it makes you feel when you drive them--does it put a smile on your face?
Otherwise all this posturing and declamations just make it seem like you've made up your mind based purely on specs and then everything else thereafter is justification, driving experience be damned.
Not targeting you personally but my maxim is : "Test Drives are free."
******
PS : seems like the Euro mags are up to their Eurocentric bias again. I notice how so many skirt around the fact that the GS F outhandles the German M5/RS6 and keep on harping on how the German cars have more "Breadth in abilities" as if these cars are built to be grocery getters for their primary purpose.
It's as if it would kill them to admit that Lexus builds a better driver's car than their precious Germans...
Isn't the most important factor how it makes you feel when you drive them--does it put a smile on your face?
Otherwise all this posturing and declamations just make it seem like you've made up your mind based purely on specs and then everything else thereafter is justification, driving experience be damned.
Not targeting you personally but my maxim is : "Test Drives are free."
******
PS : seems like the Euro mags are up to their Eurocentric bias again. I notice how so many skirt around the fact that the GS F outhandles the German M5/RS6 and keep on harping on how the German cars have more "Breadth in abilities" as if these cars are built to be grocery getters for their primary purpose.
It's as if it would kill them to admit that Lexus builds a better driver's car than their precious Germans...
fwiw, i haven't drawn my conclusion of which car is better and don't think i will for a while, and i am not calling anyone biased. if anything today i am just confused about the way lexus price the gsf
10-15-15, 06:36 AM
#913
Driver School Candidate
Why all this angst when you haven't even driven any of these cars?
Isn't the most important factor how it makes you feel when you drive them--does it put a smile on your face?
Otherwise all this posturing and declamations just make it seem like you've made up your mind based purely on specs and then everything else thereafter is justification, driving experience be damned.
Not targeting you personally but my maxim is : "Test Drives are free."
******
PS : seems like the Euro mags are up to their Eurocentric bias again. I notice how so many skirt around the fact that the GS F outhandles the German M5/RS6 and keep on harping on how the German cars have more "Breadth in abilities" as if these cars are built to be grocery getters for their primary purpose.
It's as if it would kill them to admit that Lexus builds a better driver's car than their precious Germans...
Isn't the most important factor how it makes you feel when you drive them--does it put a smile on your face?
Otherwise all this posturing and declamations just make it seem like you've made up your mind based purely on specs and then everything else thereafter is justification, driving experience be damned.
Not targeting you personally but my maxim is : "Test Drives are free."
******
PS : seems like the Euro mags are up to their Eurocentric bias again. I notice how so many skirt around the fact that the GS F outhandles the German M5/RS6 and keep on harping on how the German cars have more "Breadth in abilities" as if these cars are built to be grocery getters for their primary purpose.
It's as if it would kill them to admit that Lexus builds a better driver's car than their precious Germans...
1) $85K+ is a LOT of money for a car and I struggle with dropping that much cash for ANY car. So even outside of any comparisons/normalizations with the E63/M5/CTS-V/550i/S6/Vsport/Etc, I'm just struggling with the absolute price.
2) I don't think the GS-F is really what I need/want. I'd much prefer a "GS500" for a $7,500-$10K premium to the existing GS350. I love the comfort, reliability and basically everything about my GS except for 1 thing... it doesn't have enough power. I'm never going to track the car and I live in florida where every road is straight with 90 degree intersections. So the torque vectoring differential and other performance features are cool, but not really something I need. And while I'm not into drag racing from stoplight to stoplight, I do like the sensation of effortless power / acceleration when needed. The GS350 simply does not have that... and at low RPMs the engine can feel downright anemic.. So I would have been willing to pay a bit more for for a GS-F with all the performance bits because I prefer the comfort/reliability of lexus to the competition, but it's not worth it to me (I don't think) at $85K+ when there are other cars out there that better fit my needs for less money (namely the 550i, S6, CTS Vsport)
3) I'll likely lease and while I don't know what the residual value will be on the Lexus, I'm guessing low- to mid-50% range for 36mo/10K. Assuming the dealers won't deal initially, an $85K purchase price and a low- to mid- 50% residual puts you at ~$1,100/mo+ just on the depreciation before considering the money factor. So I could easily see the GS-F leasing out at $1,300+ per month compared to a 550i which I could lease for 36/10K/$0 down in the $700s/mo range. I'm making a lot of assumptions I know, but I bet I'm not too far off, and that's a MASSIVE difference in lease price.
Anyway, as you can tell, I've put a lot of thought into this because my lease is up in a few months and I take my car shopping seriously. I really wanted a GS-F... and maybe it will still work out... but based on the pricing/packaging, it looks really unlikely. And that frustrates me. But I will give it a test drive.
Last edited by bocahoo; 10-15-15 at 07:14 AM.
10-15-15, 08:38 AM
#914
I'll definitely give it a test drive. My problem is threefold though.
1) $85K+ is a LOT of money for a car and I struggle with dropping that much cash for ANY car. So even outside of any comparisons/normalizations with the E63/M5/CTS-V/550i/S6/Vsport/Etc, I'm just struggling with the absolute price.
2) I don't think the GS-F is really what I need/want. I'd much prefer a "GS500" for a $7,500-$10K premium to the existing GS350. I love the comfort, reliability and basically everything about my GS except for 1 thing... it doesn't have enough power. I'm never going to track the car and I live in florida where every road is straight with 90 degree intersections. So the torque vectoring differential and other performance features are cool, but not really something I need. And while I'm not into drag racing from stoplight to stoplight, I do like the sensation of effortless power / acceleration when needed. The GS350 simply does not have that... and at low RPMs the engine can feel downright anemic.. So I would have been willing to pay a bit more for for a GS-F with all the performance bits because I prefer the comfort/reliability of lexus to the competition, but it's not worth it to me (I don't think) at $85K+ when there are other cars out there that better fit my needs for less money (namely the 550i, S6, CTS Vsport)
3) I'll likely lease and while I don't know what the residual value will be on the Lexus, I'm guessing low- to mid-50% range for 36mo/10K. Assuming the dealers won't deal initially, an $85K purchase price and a low- to mid- 50% residual puts you at ~$1,100/mo+ just on the depreciation before considering the money factor. So I could easily see the GS-F leasing out at $1,300+ per month compared to a 550i which I could lease for 36/10K/$0 down in the $700s/mo range. I'm making a lot of assumptions I know, but I bet I'm not too far off, and that's a MASSIVE difference in lease price.
Anyway, as you can tell, I've put a lot of thought into this because my lease is up in a few months and I take my car shopping seriously. I really wanted a GS-F... and maybe it will still work out... but based on the pricing/packaging, it looks really unlikely. And that frustrates me. But I will give it a test drive.
1) $85K+ is a LOT of money for a car and I struggle with dropping that much cash for ANY car. So even outside of any comparisons/normalizations with the E63/M5/CTS-V/550i/S6/Vsport/Etc, I'm just struggling with the absolute price.
2) I don't think the GS-F is really what I need/want. I'd much prefer a "GS500" for a $7,500-$10K premium to the existing GS350. I love the comfort, reliability and basically everything about my GS except for 1 thing... it doesn't have enough power. I'm never going to track the car and I live in florida where every road is straight with 90 degree intersections. So the torque vectoring differential and other performance features are cool, but not really something I need. And while I'm not into drag racing from stoplight to stoplight, I do like the sensation of effortless power / acceleration when needed. The GS350 simply does not have that... and at low RPMs the engine can feel downright anemic.. So I would have been willing to pay a bit more for for a GS-F with all the performance bits because I prefer the comfort/reliability of lexus to the competition, but it's not worth it to me (I don't think) at $85K+ when there are other cars out there that better fit my needs for less money (namely the 550i, S6, CTS Vsport)
3) I'll likely lease and while I don't know what the residual value will be on the Lexus, I'm guessing low- to mid-50% range for 36mo/10K. Assuming the dealers won't deal initially, an $85K purchase price and a low- to mid- 50% residual puts you at ~$1,100/mo+ just on the depreciation before considering the money factor. So I could easily see the GS-F leasing out at $1,300+ per month compared to a 550i which I could lease for 36/10K/$0 down in the $700s/mo range. I'm making a lot of assumptions I know, but I bet I'm not too far off, and that's a MASSIVE difference in lease price.
Anyway, as you can tell, I've put a lot of thought into this because my lease is up in a few months and I take my car shopping seriously. I really wanted a GS-F... and maybe it will still work out... but based on the pricing/packaging, it looks really unlikely. And that frustrates me. But I will give it a test drive.
10-15-15, 08:41 AM
#915
Driver
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