Infamous3

Idk where your from dude but thats not the case here and won't be any time soon. Kia optima only sells well because of the price and the crazy marketing kia has put behind it, mainly the marketing tho. Nobody can match kia in terms of marketing/advertising, idk where theyre getting all this advertising money from

Nobody is comparing this k900 to a S class or 7 series

Sal Collaziano

I never mentioned the Optima because it's no big deal. Nothing special. The K900 is another story. It's not going to sell in any major numbers but that doesn't make the car any less impressive. It's a fairly expensive car for a brand beneath Hyundai. It's not on par with the LS, 7-Series, A8 or S-Class by any means - but it's certainly a major improvement over every other vehicle Kia has ever built.

Now on what you highlighted... I was speaking of Hyundai (I did say "South Koreans" - not specifically Kia). The first generation Genesis was compared to cars like the Toyota Avalon and Chrysler 300. The second generation has gone well above and beyond those cars and is now being compared to cars like the 5-Series, E-Class, A6 and GS. Don't discount the South Koreans the way everyone else discounted Lexus. History should teach us lessons like this...

Sal Collaziano

You don't know why people buy cars like the Equus, Genesis or K900? Some people simply aren't concerned about the image a badge brings (Lexus buyers in 1989). Then there are people who simply cannot afford an S-Class but want a "similar" experience - and opt for an Equus or K900. It's really not rocket science.

I do understand the value of a luxury BRAND like Lexus. I think Hyundai should create a Genesis "sub brand" - but they're not looking to go head to head with Mercedes. They're just selling automobiles...

sam430

iTrader: (10)

The 2015 Camry looks a bit more like the gs. Why drive an ES?

1BlinkGone

Yes, the South Koreans are looking to be the next 'Japan" as far as exports go- appliances, automobiles, etc.

Well, they have done fairly well with many appliances & electronics, but their Customer Svc/Support is pretty crummy as well as reliability. Samsung immediately comes to mind. (and not from just reports, but from personal experience)

As far as the Korean autos- you can make something LOOK the same as something else, but to capture the quality, dependability/reliability is a whole 'nother thing. (no, they haven't yet, and the ride doesn't compare, either) Add to that overall crummy customer service with Kia and Hyundai.... I see a pattern here. Nope, the Koreans aren't there yet. And, until they grasp the importance of support and customer service (after purchase), I doubt they will.

In 1989, nobody was laughing at Lexus...Acura, either.

rayaans

Few things I noticed about the K900

1) Side profile looks like a Lexus LS
2) The rear door has a design very similiar to the Lexus GS - just more squared off
3) the headlights look like an Infiniti Q50
4) Interior seems rather like the BMW 5 Series
5) gearstick is hands down a copy of BMW
6) Infotainment system controls near the front armrest are very similiar to Audi's MMI controls
7) The seat controls on the doors are from Mercedes
8) The only original thing i can see is that ugly steering wheel

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

I think we can all agree that all vehicle designs especially sedans share certain design queues and resemble one another plain and simple. It's hilarious when arguments gets stirred up because one vehicle looks like another. Putting the design queues aside the debate imo would be about reliability, safely, and comfort.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

+1 Best said

toyotatom

One thing Hyundai and probably Kia can't get away from is trade in value of their cars. I had a 2011 Sonata Limited before my IS and after 2 years the trade in/ retail value was still pretty good, the car cost $28,300 new and after 2 years the trade value was still over $20,000 which is not too bad, after another year the trade in plummeted to around $14,000. I waited a couple more months to trade it in and the Hyundai dealer offered $13,000 trade in value. To me that was a kick in the teeth and decided not to get another Sonata. Car was in great shape with only 35,000 miles. Lexus dealer gave me $14,000 for it.
The Genesis is having the same problem, 3 year old ones costing 40 grand can be bought in the low 20's now which means trade in around $19,000 or so. That's some serious depreciation in a short time. Car buyers take note of that kind of thing today, or at least they should.

LexFather

I just bought a 2014 LS F-Sport and didn't begin to consider the K9000000, genesis, Equus etc.. I honestly hardly know anyone that does and they are not talked about in the industry.

They are trying to lift the image of the respective brands, they are not going to steal many if any buyers from established brands.

They are all well done and shame some "luxury" brands who still don't offer v-8s, RWD, etc.

Competition is good!

SW17LS

I'm not laughing at Kia or Hyundai at all, quite the opposite...I've been a big defender of theirs.

But, they need a luxury brand of they want to reallyt make any sort of inroads on the luxury market. The project Toyota undertook with Lexus is entirely different than what Kia and Hyundai are doing. A luxury car by its very nature has a cache and status associated with it, Americans need and want this. You can't have that when your $65,000 luxury car shares a badge and a dealership with a Kia Rio or Hyundai Accent...doesnt matter how great the car might be.

Sal Collaziano

The Hyundai brand is never going to have the cachet that true luxury brands have - but they're making a lot of money - and it's only a matter of time before their vehicles are on par with true luxury brands. At that point, they're going to sell a lot of "their" luxury products to people who aren't necessarily buying luxury cars for anything but comfort, performance and features. They're getting closer with every generation...

5thavenue

This is a little bit off topic, but I it kind of made me sad when I was doing a vehicle check recently on the 2015 Camry. It has most of the same features now as the GS but for a much lower price. They vehicles are miles apart in most cases and there is no way I could ever go back to owning a Camry again but it still hurts me to know that such a cheap car in comparison has most of the same technology available (LKA, radar cruise, pre-collision, blind spot monitoring) and even special things like the wireless charging for certain smart phones. I also noticed that the Camry came with Michelin MXM4 tires. My $61,000 Lexus only came with the horrible Dunlops.

SW17LS

I think you may over-estimate the number of people that are this way. $60,000+ is a lot of money to spend on a car. Unless someone is the sort of person that has driven these cars for a long time and the badge no longer does anything for them...the badge plays a big part of it...as does the dealer experience. When someone gets to the station in life where they can drop this sort of coin on a car...its purchase is as much a validation of their own success as it is anything to do with the car. People who aren't car people and aren't focused on that sort of thing in my experience don't place enough value on a car at all to spend that sort of money.

Not that they won't sell them, they will...but they will never really be competitors to "real" luxury cars until they have that brand and that cachet. They'll always be "generic".

I mean, as long as I've been around luxury cars and as much as I would like to say the brand doesn't do much for me anymore...I couldn't bring myself to buy a Genesis over an ES...let alone a GS...and I don't know that I could do it with the Equus either.

ItzFilyO

Yes they are miles apart, Toyota's built quality is nowhere near their Lexus vehicles. I couldn't see myself going back to another Camry after I got my GS, but I gotta say that 2GR engine in my old 2011 Camry SE V6 pulls hard!

We buy Lexus for the quality and reliability.