SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

I like your list more One can only hope, sigh....

dseag2

I totally agree. I also think it takes years for a brand to turn around perception, and despite stellar cars like the LF-A and IS-F, Lexus still has the stigma of producing solid, but conservative, rolling isolation chambers. I'm an enthusiast, and I myself moved away from Lexus until the 4GS was introduced because there were so many better drivers' cars. I only went back to Lexus because I did research, and that got me into the dealership. Seeing the car and driving it sold me.

Most people have no idea that the GS has overtaken the 5 Series as the "ultimate driving machine" because they are not enthusiasts like we are. Lexus must first get customers into the dealership instead of shopping BMW and MB. I'm sure there are many die-hard loyalists who don't even consider Lexus when shopping for this class of car. Commercials like the latest one comparing the GS with its German rivals should help, but they are few and far between.

SW17LS

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I wouldn't put Lexus and Acura together in any argument. Remember that Lexus sells very well, and continues to...the GS doesn't sell in high volume, but a lot of Lexus products do. Remember that before the tsunami in Japan, Lexus outsold BMW and MB handily in the US...and Lexus is still doing very well, MB and BMW are outselling them but they have many more models now than they used to. Acura has struggled for many years. Lexus has never struggled. Big difference.

The reason the GS doesn't do great volume is the ES, as others have said. Look around at people driving 528s and E350s...old women, non-enthusiasts. They buy it because its a "midsize <insert brand here>". That buyer exists for Lexus too (its MOST buyers for Lexus, MB and BMW) they just buy the ES.

I know MANY people who have traded BMW 5s and MB Es for ES350s. To them they are similar cars...because they don't understand, appreciate, or utilize the benefits of a car like a 5 or E over an ES. So...if you were that buyer...why would you buy a GS?

As long as they continue to make the car...why do we care if it sells in volume? I like them being kinda rare.

Bear in mind that Lexus said when the 4GS came out their sales target was 24k units per year. They're pretty close to that.

jjscsix

I'm not saying that Acura and Lexus are direct competitors, my point is that they have both committed the same sin that put them where they are - meaning they lost what they built 25 years ago. Anyone who was into cars 25 years ago as I was knows that the Legend and Integras were huge hits for Acura.

I don't agree that people consider BMW 5s and M-B E's are competitors to an ES - not even close. But people trade down for a lot of reasons. I agree that as long as they keeping making them I'm fine, but that cannot be assumed, especially the GS as it is built on it's own platform, not shared with anything else (at least not in the U.S.).

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Some great points.

As long as Lexus advertises the upcoming F and F-Sports correctly with media and social media they should be successful. There is also to say that connecting with the younger crowd is a key to success as the clientele/demographic is changing. But yes getting rid of that stigma is important

SW17LS

But "where is" Lexus? They're selling better than ever...they may not appeal to you, but they appeal to nearly 300,000 people every year. When you say "put them where they are" you imply failure when in fact what we have is huge success,

Acura does not have any level of success as a brand. VERY different.

I have three coworkers that had BMW 5 series, they all had reliability problems...I told them all to get a Lexus. They all got ES350s...and none of them understood why I was surprised they had chosen the ES, or why I considered that a "downgrade". They aren't enthusiast buyers, most people aren't. Their BMW 5 series were transportation, and their Lexus ES are transportation. One of these was a late 50s woman, one an early 60s man, and one a mid 50s man. All three MUCH prefer their ESs.

Two of the three didn't even know that the 5 Series is RWD and the ES is FWD. One thought that was great because it would be better in the snow. Their low end 5 series were in the mid/upper $40ks, their loaded ES350s were in the mid/upper $40ks. To them...even swap. They didn't even know there was such a thing as a GS.

These buyers aren't even shown the GS in a Lexus showroom...they are directed right towards an ES. In a BMW or MB showroom they are sold 5's and E's because the 3's and C's are too small.

As for the GS, the GS and IS are built on the same platform. The GS and IS both sell on target and well here and elsewhere. The GS isn't going anywhere.

RNM GS3

Several Reasons:

1. ES really hurts GS sales.
2. Limited powertrain options and No performance model to elevate the GS model as a true sports sedan in the mind of the average consumer.
3. Limited inventory at dealers for desired trim packages, options and color combos. Regional packages are idiotic.

Reason i have 535i is bec of reason #3.

SW17LS

This is an issue with Lexus in general compared to BMW/MB though, not specifically the GS.

AL13NV8D3R

Here is my take on why GS sales are not as high as ES sale.
When I bought my Lexus GS350RWD Luxury almost everyone at work thought I had bought an ES.
This one particular coworker was particularly getting on my nerves this one occasion. She ask me how much I bought my car for. I told her MSRP was $61,600 and I bought it for $52,000. I paid $56,000 with tax and tags out the door. She told me that I got ripped off because my car could be had for about $40,000 out the door? I was like thinking WTF? how the heck did she come up with this crazy impossible number for a GS with almost every optional equipment? Then I asked her what car she thinks I drive? She replied the ES.......... I was like my car is a GS which is more higher quality and better driving than the ES. I even showed her two pictures of the ES and GS side by side and she cannot for the life of me tell the difference between the two. Basically what I am trying to say is, general non enthusiast people are so ignorant about cars that they cannot grasp the concept that the GS is a better car than an ES in quality and driving dynamics or tell the difference between the two visually. I wish Lexus have made the ES not look so similar to our GS or at least make the GS more aggressive looking. People like my fellow coworker will buy an ES because its cheaper and you basically get a nice car for less and will never upgrade to a GS because hey the ES is bigger inside and both GS, ES has a V6 engine and will not care if the car was FWD or RWD.

SW17LS

Exactly. The GS is just always going to be the car for the buyer that appreciates what makes it a more dynamic and higher quality car than the ES...and those buyers are rare. If they had no ES, those buyers would buy the GS...just like they do stripped down versions of the 5 and E.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

I was always under the impression once done with school I would own a BMW or Audi, that was purely based on aesthetics, as the performance was inferred. Their respective badges meant something to me, so I thought. But in late 2011 I caught wind of the GS F sport. I was kind of hooked. I still remember awaiting and watching the Super Bowl commercial, and when I saw it, told my wife that was it. We had a wedding planned for May 2012, so it wasnt a great time to make such a purchase according to my wife. A month and a half later, I surprised her after lunch with a Sunday trip to Lexus. I won that battle. And my car's exterior reflects some of my past obsessions with the German aesthetics. But I have the reliability of the Toyota brand, and a car that has proven itself against the competition. An all around beauty that you don't see all over the road like the 5 series, E350 and less commonly the A6.. And with the direction of Lexus, particularly the "F," I am glad to have found a home. And has anyone seen the Lexus ad blitz on NFL network lately? Exactly as you mention above Hoovey, targeting to the "younger" crowd.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

It pains me when people refer to my car as an IS or ES! Correction is quickly made, haha. Lexus is indirectly working on that though with their marketing strategy. As you say though, our type of buyer/enthusiast mindset is not the majority. The landscape is changing, however. Sport this, sport that...

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

If those bold items are true that would be great and would probably help sell more GS vehicles but as many have said I'm kinda glad there low in numbers only cause I stand different in a crowd where most people get the car because it has a BMW or Mercedes or even Audi badge.

1111GS

I kind of like the fact that GS doesn't sell as many as the rest of the crowd. I see Es, 5s, ES all day long. It's nice to drive something great and different. As for the similarity among the cars, I was encountered by this one person. He said, "you drive a GS right? That car is nice." The cars people know and value the car even when it's de-badged.

isoh99

Lexus needs to fire their whole exterior design team. I mean really....