dseag2

You can go to resources like Edmunds True Value and Kelly Blue Book (although I've been told dealers use Kelly Black Book) to enter specifics and see your trade-in value. I always take print outs of these car values with me when negotiating because at least it gives me a somewhat realistic idea of what my car is worth.

You can also go to Autrotrader and see what similar cars are going for. If you look through the following list of '07 GS450s you will see that they range in price from $22k to $29k. A trade-in of $16k really does seem low, but if they felt they were going to list your car for $22k, then $16k might make sense. Really depends on mileage, condition and even color of the car. There seem to be a ton of silver ones for sale on Autotrader, and if yours is silver that may bring the price down.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...rch=true&Log=0

I've gone to Carmax, but with the little bit more they offered I would have broken even or even come out ahead by only paying the tax on the difference in the trades.

Good luck! I know depreciation is tough because I trade almost every year, but if the new car makes you happy and it is within your financial means, hey...

matt2421

Sorry man, i completely disagree. The delaership would have wanted to buy my car for 16.5k and would have turned around and put it on thier lot for 25K. They would have taken the first 23-24K offered for it. Meaning they would have cleared around 7k on my used car not to mention whatever thier profit margin was on selling me the new car. also, the fact that they let me leave without doing a deal meant they couldnt do a deal...sorry, wrong again. They were hoping i was a lazy consumer, wouldnt shop around and eventually succumb to thier deal becasue they knew i wanted a new car. also, after writing a letter to Lexus, the dealer suddenly re-evalutes my car at 1k more? Really? finally, the first offer i got was for 16.5k, the second offer i got was 17.5k, i eventually got 19k, meaning the first dealer was trying to seperate me from $1500 of my dollars, if thats not personal, i dont know what is. Let me add a just a little more as you hit a nerve with me, the dealer who offered me 19k for my car still made money off of it, the fact that the first dealer offered me such a low ball offer is criminal in my mind, how is this any different from stealing? So, yeah, with the exception of a few honest guys out there, car salesman are villians.

dseag2

Well, they're not your friends, but they are in the business to make profits, and I'll bet there are many customers out there that will just take the first offer they give and go with it. You did the right thing by searching around until you found a more reasonable offer. With that said, they have every right to make as much profits as the customer allows them to make. That doesn't make them villains... just businesspeople wanting to make the maximum possible profits.

I'll tell you the story of a "villian"... a really dishonest salesperson. I was buying my first Lexus GS from Countyline Lexus in South Florida. I was trading in a leased Acura TL. During the negotiations the salesman kept telling me they would give me $25k for my TL and I kept pointing out it was leased so there could never be that much equity in it. He kept arguing that those were the numbers he had and we signed the paperwork. I transferred all my stuff over to the new car as I waited for the financial manager to draw up the paperwork. When he called me in the finalize the deal they had "whited out" the $25k credit for the Acura TL and added it back in to what I owed on the GS. I told him I understood why he could not stand by the mistake the salesman had made and to just give me back my keys. I took my keys, transferred my stuff back and drove off with the salesman glaring at me like I had done something wrong to him. I bought a couple of cars from JM Lexus and one car from Lexus of Pembroke Pines, but I never went back to County Line Lexus again. I would call them crooks, not villains.

Silver10

No matter what the bottom dollar is but at the end of the day if you feel like you got a good deal then you got a good deal! A dealer is always going to come out on top no matter the situation even if it's just a few bucks. Knowledge is key and as stated most buyers just jump at the first price because sales people are trained to drain you and maximize their profits,again you are in control of your money and emotions and if you let the emotion part take over it could hurt you financially but if it's a good deal and you feel fair then it's a good deal.I am no way shape or form a salesman but I've had my fair share of good and bad purchases and in reality if they would give you the car you want for free then that would be the good deal but it doesn't happen.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

Well thanks all for the help, I guess there is a carmax in MA so I'm going Sunday to see what they offer me and then to the other dealership. If the price given is the same I guess I'll just wait it out and see if a GS-F comes up. I really do like the GS 350 F-Sport it really looks good when your there in front of it. I'll let you all know how it went.

Salil022

iTrader: (1)

The truth is....Trade in prices gets driven by what these cars do at Auction, 3rd Gen GS 4xx RWD really took a hit in northeast as they are not much desirable in winter time.

If i were you...i would go to another dealer if they are willing to offer $2-$3k more on the trade to make the deal.

i had a similar story...in Early November i was offered $19.5k for my 06 GS430 on the trade and now they are offering $17k

He showed me what these cars are doing at the auction...Plus not too many that went through the auction to truly gauge the value.

SW17LS

I apologize in advance for this being long, but this hits a nerve with me as well.

What data do you have that shows the car would have been listed for $25k and sold for $23-24k? Do you have comparable cars on the lot at this particular dealer and within the area that shows that? It can't be a car thats AWD vs RWD and a model year newer. RWD vs AWD in our region is a HUGE value differential.

If they make $7k and you're happy with the deal, who cares? We're all out there working to make a living. Don't worry about their profit margins, worry about structuring a deal that checks all your boxes. Hell, if you want to get top dollar, you can always spend your time advertising the car, being there for test drives, answering phone calls, dealing with no shows.

Your logic doesn't hold up. If it would have been so easy to make a deal with you where they could make $5-7k on the trade as well as the new car, if they're all "money grubbing" as you suggest...why didn't they do that? Its Sales 101 to never let the prospect leave without giving them your best pitch.

If they let you leave, your expectations of a deal weren't feasible for them, I promise you that.

I just bought one of these cars and traded a car, and I've been in sales my whole life. When I put down for them what my bottom line was on the car, the deal, and the trade, they met it because they knew it was that or no deal. My position however was within the confines of the data on all fronts and was a doable deal. Like I said, they marked my trade up $3k which I think is more than reasonable.

Probably a coincidence. The dealers are all independently owned, and Lexus corp doesn't have any say in situations like this. Its simple supply and demand. The dealer was negotiating with you, just like you were negotiating with them. They're not going to open up with their best offer...they'd be stupid to do so.

Its not personal, its business. The dealer was trying to maximize their profit, you are trying to minimize your cost. So...by the same logic wasn't your negotiating an additional $2,500 for your trade trying to seperate the dealer from their profit? Was that personal? You speak as if someone owes you the best price and terms available...you don't get what you deserve in life...you get what you negotiate.

Its not a question of just making money. Its not enough to simply "make money" if you want to run a successful business. Its all about profit margins, they have to make a certain amount of money to make the deal work, otherwise they'll just sell it to the next person. The minimum threshold of profit that will work for them depends on the specific car you're interested in, time of the month, time of the year, incentives available, and demand for your trade. Maybe the dealer you did the deal with had someone looking for a CPO car similar to yours? Maybe they had less inventory and needed more? You have no way of knowing.

Its not stealing, they made you an offer, you refused, and you both parted ways without a deal being done. It happens. You wound up negotiating a deal with someone else at a time that better benefitted you. Good for you, good for them. I approached this purchase several times and we couldn't make the numbers work the way I wanted, so I waited until a time when I could make it work. Hell, I sat down in August and worked on a deal for a 2013 ES that would have cost me $75 more a month in the lease payment than the GS I'm driving now. Did that mean they were villains? No, the car was brand new and they couldn't discount it because they were selling quickly for sticker. Good for them. I waited and I'm glad I did.

You gotta look at these things with a little more professional detachment. By your logic, your insistence on your numbers in a deal makes you just as much a villain as a car salesman. If you come into it with all the data, a willingness to negotiate, and the chip off your shoulder it'll be a lot less painful and a lot more successful. I've bought many cars, and I can honestly say that while I have met some villains, they're few and far between. Idiots are more common.

Neither of you are villains, you're just people negotiating a deal that works for everyone. Remember that.

sydtoosic

don't forget to post pics. you know how we love car ****...

SW17LS

Bear in mind too that modifications generally hurt your resale value, especially when trading into a dealership. If you are really serious about this, I might consider putting it back to stock and see if that improves the number.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Well stated!

passnu2

iTrader: (33)

The OP is probably the only one in this thread that truly knows what their car is worth with me sharing data in the 3gen section. The OP is standing his ground and the offers ARE a slap in the face.

Dealer retail is 30k on the OP's car....so 16.5k must be a fair trade in value. These cars, across different regions, are selling from 25k-30k. The car is worth 20k-22k on trade-in, plus any tax credit given your state, and this of course is all depending on condition. 22k is average and 20k would be if the car shows any paint work, accident(non major), ect....downward if the car warrants it. I know this isn't the case with the OP's car.

I think many, regardless it being a sales transaction, might have a different view when they saw the front/back profit margins. If you feel that its worth it because the car is "new" your a check writing ______.

SW17LS

One of my managers just bought a 2010 GS350, fully loaded CPO for around $32k, so I'm not buying that dealer retail on a 2007 GS450h is $30k. The hybrid looses value much faster than the gas car, its the same way with the LS. Remember too that his car is modified, they have to remove all those modifications to sell it CPO. His modifications significantly reduce his trade in value to a dealer. His car is also RWD, in my search for CPO LS460s I realized that the value difference for RWD vs AWD in my region is easily 10%, and MA is way snowier than here.

You say across different regions is $25-$30k...different regions are meaningless. What matters is the local market in HIS region. The dealer can't just go sell it in a different region.

Remember, they have to:

1. Remove the vinyl wrapped roof
2. Replace the exhaust system
3. Replace the wheels

At a very minimum to sell it CPO.

How are you determining what the dealer retail is for his car without using KBB? I just looked for other 450hs within 200 miles of Boston and the oldest ones are 2011s. Do you know what the auction prices are? What were the last 4 2007-2006 GS450s listed for that sold on a lot within 250 miles of his location? If you don't know the answer to those questions...you don't know what you are talking about.

Why do you care what their profit margins are? I know the following when I am looking to buy a car:

1. My maximum price range to help select options
2. What a good deal is on a particular car once I have decided what I want, that info is easily available here.
3. What a fair value is for my trade. I know this by getting multiple appraisals from different sources, and researching what similar vehicles are listed for both at dealers and with private parties.

If a deal is within 1, 2 & 3...I don't care if they make a million dollars.

Would you like it if someone came into your office and decided that you were making too much money? Is your goal to get a good deal or keep them from making as much profit as you can? I already know the answer to that question and THAT is the problem.

He walked out of the dealership...and they made nothing. If they let that happen without a fight then they couldn't do the deal.

passnu2

iTrader: (33)

LMAO so what does the sale of a 2010 GS350 have to do with the OP's car? just making a point that you referenced earlier in this thread


Yes a modded car will not help on trade in, I'm well aware of that


Region has minimal to do with a car that is ONLY offered as RWD, and since when is the LS compared to the GS The car is meant for a specific buyer and MAY not sell as quickly. Hence the problem with Hybrid cars weak Used Car Managers "afraid" of the car sitting longer then the norm.

Really Care to back this up

Blah, blah, blah...age and mileage "may" not even allow the OP's car to qualify for CPO

I'm a wholesaler so yes I have access to FACTUAL data and I work in the industry. KBB, what the consumer thinks, ect mean nothing....




Great person for others to get advice from hence my point of check writing _____.

That's fine if someone feels this way or would like to tell me to my face I charge to much for my services. Can't make everyone happy

SW17LS

To help with your GS valuation:

2007 60k miles listed for $24,900 in TX:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...t_27262wt_1182

Here's one in my town, Bethesda, MD for $29k private party, but its a Neiman Marcus with only 27k miles:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Limit...#ht_564wt_1182

Here's one with 82k miles for $21k:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYBRI...#ht_7051wt_956

Here is one at Pohanka here in Chantilly for $28K (and Chantilly has overpriced CPO cars but will come off a lot in a negotiation):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4dr-H...ht_3899wt_1182

Here's one in Texas for $27.980:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...t_28132wt_1182

I don't know how many miles the OP's car has, but if its around 50k or so, I would say his car would sell after a negotiation CPO for maybe $24-25k. Bear in mind they cannot sell it CPO with those modifications which I'm sure they are factoring into their offer.

SW17LS

Because a 3 year older car is not going to sell for the same price as the same basic model 3 years newer, whether its a hybrid or not.

Of course region matters whether the car is only offered RWD or not. You have a very slim market for the hybrid anyways, I think its logical to make the statement that market is even thinner in a region where RWD is a concern. If a buyer is deciding between an AWD GS350 and a RWD GS450h...

Why do you think they don't even ship non AWD GS's or LS's here or in MA? Because nobody wants them.

This is in reference to my statement that the dealer cannot just go sell it in a different region.

Dealers are independently owned. THEY purchase the car, not Lexus. Most dealership frnachisees don't own multiple dealers in multiple regions. So...when they buy a car they have to sell it at THEIR dealer, or they have to sell it at auction so another dealer can buy it. If they have to sell it at auction it hurts your resale even more...obviously because the dealer has to be able to sell it at auction for a price that another dealer can make a profit on, and still make a profit on what they paid you for the car.

Which reduces the value even more! In one breath you're saying the car is worth $30k and that the dealer's offer is a slap in the face, yet you say that the car is so old and high mileage it may not be CPO anyways. Lexus dealers want CPO cars. You don't make any sense.

We have established his car is too high mileage to be CPO, its modified which hurts resale...yet you assert its worth more than all of the lower mileage, stock & CPO cars I've posted above. How?!?

I'm not sure what you do in the industry, but if you think that what consumers want and think has no effect on the value of something that is sold to consumers...I don't know what to tell you.

Since the consumer drives the marketplace, the only thing that matters is what they think. What will a consumer pay retail for the OP's vehicle, what are the costs to get it into a condition to maximize that value, and what does someone need to make on the flip to make it worthwhile...thats how you arrive at a fair trade in value.

If you have the factual data...share it with us here. Please show us the analysis that shows his vehicle is worth a $30k dealer price? I have said KBB is worthless, and I have said you need to do your own appraisal of the vehicle's value. If his car is high mileage and modified, I'm guessing its worth $20k maybe on a dealer lot. So...$16k may not be bad.

What are the auction prices? How much do the modifications hurt the vehicle's value? You're the industry guru...guru for us.

Hey, I've never paid more than 90% of a vehicle's MSRP before, and I just swung that+ and $2,800 below dealer lot price for my trade, so I don't know what to tell you.

I am however, a fair person and understand that there are limits to what both sides can do to make a deal happen. I'm in sales myself, and have been very successful negotiating good deals on vehicle purchases. But hey...why listen to me?