So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
01-04-13, 05:01 AM
#361
Guest
Posts: n/a
GS was third best selling in class and dec was a big month. We've seen a few new owners pop in these last few months.
01-04-13, 06:38 AM
#362
Lexus Fanatic
And as for discounting, the GS is not really discounted any more than the competition. Bear in mind BMW is offering $3,500 in incentive after you negotiate your best deal on the 5 series, as well as all sorts of other models. A deal of approximately 10% off is achievable on all of the GS' competitors. As we all know the incentive is only $1,500 and a first payment on the GS.
Lexus has a great lease, but BMW for instance has an almost identical lease on the 5 series. So, these sales figures can't just be attributed to available deals.
Lexus has a great lease, but BMW for instance has an almost identical lease on the 5 series. So, these sales figures can't just be attributed to available deals.
01-04-13, 05:10 PM
#364
Lexus Fanatic
I think it was over yesterday
01-04-13, 11:01 PM
#365
Instructor
01-05-13, 04:02 AM
#366
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i asked sales rep if needed to sign off on anything before i went out of town for last weeks in december. said no issues.. car did not arrive till 12 22 12. i was out of town. i did get app in for lease and finance before the 2nd via internet which he asked me to do. then when i was back on the 3rd he told me rates changed due to lexus.. i think he droped the ball. i dont think he did it intentionally.. told me price for car did not change ect just the money factor.. which results in a change of 50 per month.. so 1800 over three year lease. thing is they are taking my older car in on trade so i am kinda stuck.
01-05-13, 08:32 AM
#367
Lead Lap
So if they count January 2013 and the first week of February...that will give them a full year's worth of sales. It might get to the 24K number....
01-05-13, 09:23 AM
#368
Instructor
i asked sales rep if needed to sign off on anything before i went out of town for last weeks in december. said no issues.. car did not arrive till 12 22 12. i was out of town. i did get app in for lease and finance before the 2nd via internet which he asked me to do. then when i was back on the 3rd he told me rates changed due to lexus.. i think he droped the ball. i dont think he did it intentionally.. told me price for car did not change ect just the money factor.. which results in a change of 50 per month.. so 1800 over three year lease. thing is they are taking my older car in on trade so i am kinda stuck.
01-05-13, 09:35 AM
#369
Lead Lap
Because Americans don't pay cash for anything. /politicalrant
01-05-13, 10:10 AM
#370
Lexus Test Driver
And as for discounting, the GS is not really discounted any more than the competition. Bear in mind BMW is offering $3,500 in incentive after you negotiate your best deal on the 5 series, as well as all sorts of other models. A deal of approximately 10% off is achievable on all of the GS' competitors. As we all know the incentive is only $1,500 and a first payment on the GS.
Lexus has a great lease, but BMW for instance has an almost identical lease on the 5 series. So, these sales figures can't just be attributed to available deals.
Lexus has a great lease, but BMW for instance has an almost identical lease on the 5 series. So, these sales figures can't just be attributed to available deals.
The holiday credit was up to $3,500 in advertising but this only applied to the 7.
The 5 Series got $2,000 holiday credit only. They do offer $750 loyalty if you have a current Bimmer.
Also, the GS had a more favorable Residual and Money Factor in December. Depending on the options the GS was $100-200 cheaper to lease. Ask me how I know?
The MB Eclass had even crazier lease program than GS though.
On my way to work yesterday i saw about 5 new GS350s in 15 min span.
01-05-13, 10:51 AM
#371
Actually this is wrong info.
The holiday credit was up to $3,500 in advertising but this only applied to the 7.
The 5 Series got $2,000 holiday credit only. They do offer $750 loyalty if you have a current Bimmer.
Also, the GS had a more favorable Residual and Money Factor in December. Depending on the options the GS was $100-200 cheaper to lease. Ask me how I know?
The MB Eclass had even crazier lease program than GS though.
On my way to work yesterday i saw about 5 new GS350s in 15 min span.
The holiday credit was up to $3,500 in advertising but this only applied to the 7.
The 5 Series got $2,000 holiday credit only. They do offer $750 loyalty if you have a current Bimmer.
Also, the GS had a more favorable Residual and Money Factor in December. Depending on the options the GS was $100-200 cheaper to lease. Ask me how I know?
The MB Eclass had even crazier lease program than GS though.
On my way to work yesterday i saw about 5 new GS350s in 15 min span.
I looked into a comparably equipped 5 Series too.
An A6 was up there too.
I am very happy with the GS,though.
01-05-13, 02:03 PM
#372
Lexus Fanatic
Even so though, the point was that a similar deal was achievable on all of them.
Are you certain you had seen what the lowest figures were on a BMW lease? I was quoted a lease with a residual and money factor near identical to the Lexus on a 535. Now, both had much more favorable leases than Audi on the A6. Not sure about the E as I crossed it off my list early on.
Are you certain you had seen what the lowest figures were on a BMW lease? I was quoted a lease with a residual and money factor near identical to the Lexus on a 535. Now, both had much more favorable leases than Audi on the A6. Not sure about the E as I crossed it off my list early on.
01-05-13, 07:18 PM
#373
Lexus Champion
Mercedes lease programs would be very aggressive because they are introducing a substantially refreshed E-Class this year. BMW lease programs are aggressive, period. Audi's lease programs tend to stink because they use realistic residual values and their cars tend to depreciate fast.
01-11-13, 02:27 PM
#374
Look at the 4GS performance last year 2012 in the USA:
January 93
February 2396
March 2558
April 2006
May 1996
June 2020
July 1662
August 1831
September 1454
October 1521
November 1826
December 2796
Let's forget January 2012's old discontinued 3GS sales.
From February onwards, Lexus only reached its biased low set sales target in 5 of the very first and strongest 11 months.
In 6 of those 11 months, they failed to reach their monthly target of 2,000 units.
At 22,160 in it's debut year of 2012, the 4GS is selling at only 2/3rd of their own previous 3GS predecessor's performance of 33,457 units in 2005.
Sometimes you'll hear the Lexus-biased far right quote that the market is not as good now, as it was when the 3GS debuted in 2005, but then look at the competition; regardless of market excuses, the competition is doing fine presently.
In 2012, the more expensive 5 Series is romping away at 56,798.
Moreso, the even more expensive E Class at 65,171 units.
These figures do not include the 6 Series and CLS which sell at 8,000+ units each.
Of course, most of the sales success above is attributed to:
1) the name/badge/image/reputation for quality - which can override what is a genuinely inferior car.
2) body style, engine, and suspension variations. Note how the 6 Series & CLS sell an additional 8k+ units each per year?
Marketing helps, but on its own, it obviously won't get the 4GS from 22k units to the E Class's 65k units, and the 4GS is fresh, while the 2009 E Class is already 3 to 4 years old...
January 93
February 2396
March 2558
April 2006
May 1996
June 2020
July 1662
August 1831
September 1454
October 1521
November 1826
December 2796
Let's forget January 2012's old discontinued 3GS sales.
From February onwards, Lexus only reached its biased low set sales target in 5 of the very first and strongest 11 months.
In 6 of those 11 months, they failed to reach their monthly target of 2,000 units.
At 22,160 in it's debut year of 2012, the 4GS is selling at only 2/3rd of their own previous 3GS predecessor's performance of 33,457 units in 2005.
Sometimes you'll hear the Lexus-biased far right quote that the market is not as good now, as it was when the 3GS debuted in 2005, but then look at the competition; regardless of market excuses, the competition is doing fine presently.
In 2012, the more expensive 5 Series is romping away at 56,798.
Moreso, the even more expensive E Class at 65,171 units.
These figures do not include the 6 Series and CLS which sell at 8,000+ units each.
Of course, most of the sales success above is attributed to:
1) the name/badge/image/reputation for quality - which can override what is a genuinely inferior car.
2) body style, engine, and suspension variations. Note how the 6 Series & CLS sell an additional 8k+ units each per year?
Marketing helps, but on its own, it obviously won't get the 4GS from 22k units to the E Class's 65k units, and the 4GS is fresh, while the 2009 E Class is already 3 to 4 years old...
And...my head exploded.
Lexus' goal for the 4GS was 25,000 units, thats well documented. They're there. It doesn't matter that the E Class sold 65k units, or the 5 series sold 54k units...what matters is that Lexus achieved its goal in sales. Even if there were demand for 65,000 GS's...Lexus doesn't even have the capacity to produce that many cars.
There are people in my industry who do more volume of business than me. I have my goals, they have theirs. My goals are less. Doesn't mean I'm not successful.
Lexus is doing fine, they regained the title of top selling luxury marque, Toyota regained the title of top selling automaker after the Tsunami. They have dealerships full of fresh product to sell. They're doing well, and the new IS is going to do well.
Lexus' goal for the 4GS was 25,000 units, thats well documented. They're there. It doesn't matter that the E Class sold 65k units, or the 5 series sold 54k units...what matters is that Lexus achieved its goal in sales. Even if there were demand for 65,000 GS's...Lexus doesn't even have the capacity to produce that many cars.
There are people in my industry who do more volume of business than me. I have my goals, they have theirs. My goals are less. Doesn't mean I'm not successful.
Lexus is doing fine, they regained the title of top selling luxury marque, Toyota regained the title of top selling automaker after the Tsunami. They have dealerships full of fresh product to sell. They're doing well, and the new IS is going to do well.
Hi SW10ES.
You asked in the 3IS thread about how well the E Class and 5 Series sold back in 2005?
5 Series 52,722
E Class 50,383.
Thus today, both the E Class and 5 Series have both increased their sales, yet the 4GS is only selling at 2/3rd's the volume of 2005; a big discrepancy?
Theoretically, the 4GS should have grown in percentage-wise with E and 5.
Lexus knows this better than we do, and I'm sure they're presently hard at work.
If you ask for my opinion as to why no in-line growth?
Probably that Camry accelerator floor mat recalls incident started it all, slowing TMC down in recent years.
Thus 8 speed auto gearboxes delayed a little etc.
Then there's the major change in design - now "niching" to sportiness, which is paradise for enthusiasts!
Rather than going mainstream to the mass market.
The past tells us about the future, so the 3IS will have no easy feat in 2013.
Regardless of the sales, it doesn't mean that the 4GS is a bad car!
Not at all.
I purchased the 3ES back in 1999 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2006 IS250 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2009 3GS knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
Of course there must be more strengths than weaknesses otherwise we wouldn't buy the car.
In all cases, I knew before the purchase that the IS and GS were NOT top sellers in their class.
Talking about weaknesses doesn't necessarily mean that we don't like it, or won't buy it.
We talk about weaknesses constructively so that the manufacturer can improve on the next model!
If they are listening and reading.
I'd probably buy the facelifted 4GS in a few years time, with hopefully cleaner looking tail light lenses?
Lexus facelifts often seem to rectify the originals; just a matter with being patient signing on the dotted line.
In previous posts, I have highlighted many good features of the 4GS including:
1) Exterior styling [except for the plain tail light lenses, especially the L-lines].
2) Decently roomy interior,
I have mentioned a number of times previously that the fancy air conditioned seats have huge thick seats bases and back rests that really rob the 3GS, 4GS and old 2IS of foot room and leg room, while the new 4GS door mounted ashtrays rob the 4GS of lateral knee room.
3) The tallest rear seat base in its class, with the highest rear seating position, for the best window view.
4) The biggest boot in class.
5) Best atmostpheric engine, though bottom end could do with more punch.
6) Decent economy [petrol is cheap where I am].
7) Good steering feel, turn in, and terminal grip.
8) Best ride in class!
Longer suspension travel than my 3GS, but also better damped than my floaty 3GS.
9) Quietest ride in class.
I don't like the way the engine roars under acceleration, however when cruising, it is actually quieter than my 3GS.
10) New lane change warning, headup display etc...
It is very easy to update the 4GS tail light lenses at facelift.
Lexus will give the facelifted 4GS luxury model a new set of 18" alloys, whether you ask them or not!
Easy to put a bit of firewall insulation back in, or remove resonance devices in the intake?
I'd be nice to get more bottom end punch, and an 8 speed auto.
Luckily, the interior styling is not as important as the exterior styling because most people do indeed judge a book by its cover, but a new interior will have to wait for the next generation....
Last edited by peteharvey; 01-11-13 at 02:30 PM.
01-11-13, 03:08 PM
#375
Hi SW10ES.
You asked in the 3IS thread about how well the E Class and 5 Series sold back in 2005?
5 Series 52,722
E Class 50,383.
Thus today, both the E Class and 5 Series have both increased their sales, yet the 4GS is only selling at 2/3rd's the volume of 2005; a big discrepancy?
Theoretically, the 4GS should have grown in percentage-wise with E and 5.
Lexus knows this better than we do, and I'm sure they're presently hard at work.
If you ask for my opinion as to why no in-line growth?
Probably that Camry accelerator floor mat recalls incident started it all, slowing TMC down in recent years.
Thus 8 speed auto gearboxes delayed a little etc.
Then there's the major change in design - now "niching" to sportiness, which is paradise for enthusiasts!
Rather than going mainstream to the mass market.
The past tells us about the future, so the 3IS will have no easy feat in 2013.
Regardless of the sales, it doesn't mean that the 4GS is a bad car!
Not at all.
I purchased the 3ES back in 1999 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2006 IS250 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2009 3GS knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
Of course there must be more strengths than weaknesses otherwise we wouldn't buy the car.
In all cases, I knew before the purchase that the IS and GS were NOT top sellers in their class.
Talking about weaknesses doesn't necessarily mean that we don't like it, or won't buy it.
We talk about weaknesses constructively so that the manufacturer can improve on the next model!
If they are listening and reading.
I'd probably buy the facelifted 4GS in a few years time, with hopefully cleaner looking tail light lenses?
Lexus facelifts often seem to rectify the originals; just a matter with being patient signing on the dotted line.
In previous posts, I have highlighted many good features of the 4GS including:
1) Exterior styling [except for the plain tail light lenses, especially the L-lines].
2) Decently roomy interior,
I have mentioned a number of times previously that the fancy air conditioned seats have huge thick seats bases and back rests that really rob the 3GS, 4GS and old 2IS of foot room and leg room, while the new 4GS door mounted ashtrays rob the 4GS of lateral knee room.
3) The tallest rear seat base in its class, with the highest rear seating position, for the best window view.
4) The biggest boot in class.
5) Best atmostpheric engine, though bottom end could do with more punch.
6) Decent economy [petrol is cheap where I am].
7) Good steering feel, turn in, and terminal grip.
8) Best ride in class!
Longer suspension travel than my 3GS, but also better damped than my floaty 3GS.
9) Quietest ride in class.
I don't like the way the engine roars under acceleration, however when cruising, it is actually quieter than my 3GS.
10) New lane change warning, headup display etc...
It is very easy to update the 4GS tail light lenses at facelift.
Lexus will give the facelifted 4GS luxury model a new set of 18" alloys, whether you ask them or not!
Easy to put a bit of firewall insulation back in, or remove resonance devices in the intake?
I'd be nice to get more bottom end punch, and an 8 speed auto.
Luckily, the interior styling is not as important as the exterior styling because most people do indeed judge a book by its cover, but a new interior will have to wait for the next generation....
You asked in the 3IS thread about how well the E Class and 5 Series sold back in 2005?
5 Series 52,722
E Class 50,383.
Thus today, both the E Class and 5 Series have both increased their sales, yet the 4GS is only selling at 2/3rd's the volume of 2005; a big discrepancy?
Theoretically, the 4GS should have grown in percentage-wise with E and 5.
Lexus knows this better than we do, and I'm sure they're presently hard at work.
If you ask for my opinion as to why no in-line growth?
Probably that Camry accelerator floor mat recalls incident started it all, slowing TMC down in recent years.
Thus 8 speed auto gearboxes delayed a little etc.
Then there's the major change in design - now "niching" to sportiness, which is paradise for enthusiasts!
Rather than going mainstream to the mass market.
The past tells us about the future, so the 3IS will have no easy feat in 2013.
Regardless of the sales, it doesn't mean that the 4GS is a bad car!
Not at all.
I purchased the 3ES back in 1999 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2006 IS250 knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
I purchased the 2009 3GS knowing its strengths and weaknesses.
Of course there must be more strengths than weaknesses otherwise we wouldn't buy the car.
In all cases, I knew before the purchase that the IS and GS were NOT top sellers in their class.
Talking about weaknesses doesn't necessarily mean that we don't like it, or won't buy it.
We talk about weaknesses constructively so that the manufacturer can improve on the next model!
If they are listening and reading.
I'd probably buy the facelifted 4GS in a few years time, with hopefully cleaner looking tail light lenses?
Lexus facelifts often seem to rectify the originals; just a matter with being patient signing on the dotted line.
In previous posts, I have highlighted many good features of the 4GS including:
1) Exterior styling [except for the plain tail light lenses, especially the L-lines].
2) Decently roomy interior,
I have mentioned a number of times previously that the fancy air conditioned seats have huge thick seats bases and back rests that really rob the 3GS, 4GS and old 2IS of foot room and leg room, while the new 4GS door mounted ashtrays rob the 4GS of lateral knee room.
3) The tallest rear seat base in its class, with the highest rear seating position, for the best window view.
4) The biggest boot in class.
5) Best atmostpheric engine, though bottom end could do with more punch.
6) Decent economy [petrol is cheap where I am].
7) Good steering feel, turn in, and terminal grip.
8) Best ride in class!
Longer suspension travel than my 3GS, but also better damped than my floaty 3GS.
9) Quietest ride in class.
I don't like the way the engine roars under acceleration, however when cruising, it is actually quieter than my 3GS.
10) New lane change warning, headup display etc...
It is very easy to update the 4GS tail light lenses at facelift.
Lexus will give the facelifted 4GS luxury model a new set of 18" alloys, whether you ask them or not!
Easy to put a bit of firewall insulation back in, or remove resonance devices in the intake?
I'd be nice to get more bottom end punch, and an 8 speed auto.
Luckily, the interior styling is not as important as the exterior styling because most people do indeed judge a book by its cover, but a new interior will have to wait for the next generation....
All very good points. Especially the sportiness comment.
I'd be interested to see the ES sales from launch of the last generation to the new one, just too lazy to look it up. Are the ES/RX/IS picking up the slack in total Lexus sales? Probably
The GS has definitely lost market share in it's segment, their low 1st year sales target conceded that.