Like the car a lot, nevertheless; Disappointed..
08-19-11, 07:33 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
These V-8s weigh as much if not more than the GS 450h. In the past the hybrid weighed more but since all these new cars came around gaining all this size and weight well they now outweigh the GSh. Kinda odd to see that.
As a 450h owner I honestly don't desire a faster car. It does 0-60 in low 5s and passing power is as great/better than V-8s. Rarely, if ever have I said "I wish this was faster" or "I wish I had a V-8". Then it gets 20-40% better MPG than a V-8 so even if its .2 or .3 seconds slower it doesn't matter to me. When I do desire a faster car, it will be some sort of high performance car or a Porsche.
I'll be honest, when I have lined up with a V-8 competitor they don't push it, they don't run.
As I stated in the other thread, I miss the V-8 sound when I drive the GSh, thats about it. My GS 430 is fully modded with L-tuned exhaust and still sounds great.
As a 450h owner I honestly don't desire a faster car. It does 0-60 in low 5s and passing power is as great/better than V-8s. Rarely, if ever have I said "I wish this was faster" or "I wish I had a V-8". Then it gets 20-40% better MPG than a V-8 so even if its .2 or .3 seconds slower it doesn't matter to me. When I do desire a faster car, it will be some sort of high performance car or a Porsche.
I'll be honest, when I have lined up with a V-8 competitor they don't push it, they don't run.
As I stated in the other thread, I miss the V-8 sound when I drive the GSh, thats about it. My GS 430 is fully modded with L-tuned exhaust and still sounds great.
08-19-11, 07:38 PM
#17
I really hope they come out with a GS-F. It was disappointing to see that they were using a wimpy 306 horsepower V6 for it. They either need a V8, V10, or GS-F option. It's a very nice car and all, but the horsepower is a joke. Especially when it's not that much higher than the older GS'.
08-19-11, 07:48 PM
#18
I really hope they come out with a GS-F. It was disappointing to see that they were using a wimpy 306 horsepower V6 for it. They either need a V8, V10, or GS-F option. It's a very nice car and all, but the horsepower is a joke. Especially when it's not that much higher than the older GS'.
Horsepower wars are for premium luxury uber-sports segment like AMG, and it is funny because even the horsepower war ended years ago. So what are we expecting for here? GS350 309? then when they upgrade the powertrain next year to be 312? How far can we go without raising the base price? It is unrealistic...
08-19-11, 07:48 PM
#19
Point being that these V8s are very viable in the market place. But I don't want to pay a premium for a Hybrid that has too much weight and complexity. Heck, the the GS460 did not have the neutered 4.6 I would likely have sprung for it (meaning 380 hp instead of 340).
Hell, look at what the Genesis has for 2012 - 333, 385 and 429 hp and all with 8 speed transmissions.
Hell, look at what the Genesis has for 2012 - 333, 385 and 429 hp and all with 8 speed transmissions.
Then you bring up cost. The 3GSh was priced slightly less than its V8 peers at the time. I would expect the 4GSh to be priced below the 550i and E550 or at the same point if they believe it is truly completive. All while returning better mileage than the competition not to mention the reduced tailpipe emissions. A lot of people are worried about the battery's lifespan. For one you don't have to worry about paying for that for a good 10 years because of the warranties. And when/if you do it should only be around 3k. You really think that there isn't going to be $3000 in repairs on a turbo 550i after 10+ years/150,000+ miles? It is also important to note that many, many Prius owners have taken their cars well past 300k miles without replacing any hybrid components.
The only thing left to complain about is the "feel" and the trunk. I'll concede on the trunk-it's small, hopefully the 4GSh can improve this area. The feel is another valid point that really depends on the person. I, however, have grown to enjoy the relentless "train like" surge the 450h provides not to mention the snappy passing power up in the mountains.
I do think they should offer an F though, preferably a non-hybrid one at that. The F brand just seems too new to launch something without "speeds" and with a 150-200 pound battery in the trunk.
08-19-11, 09:43 PM
#20
These V-8s weigh as much if not more than the GS 450h. In the past the hybrid weighed more but since all these new cars came around gaining all this size and weight well they now outweigh the GSh. Kinda odd to see that.
As a 450h owner I honestly don't desire a faster car. It does 0-60 in low 5s and passing power is as great/better than V-8s. Rarely, if ever have I said "I wish this was faster" or "I wish I had a V-8". Then it gets 20-40% better MPG than a V-8 so even if its .2 or .3 seconds slower it doesn't matter to me. When I do desire a faster car, it will be some sort of high performance car or a Porsche.
I'll be honest, when I have lined up with a V-8 competitor they don't push it, they don't run.
As I stated in the other thread, I miss the V-8 sound when I drive the GSh, thats about it. My GS 430 is fully modded with L-tuned exhaust and still sounds great.
As a 450h owner I honestly don't desire a faster car. It does 0-60 in low 5s and passing power is as great/better than V-8s. Rarely, if ever have I said "I wish this was faster" or "I wish I had a V-8". Then it gets 20-40% better MPG than a V-8 so even if its .2 or .3 seconds slower it doesn't matter to me. When I do desire a faster car, it will be some sort of high performance car or a Porsche.
I'll be honest, when I have lined up with a V-8 competitor they don't push it, they don't run.
As I stated in the other thread, I miss the V-8 sound when I drive the GSh, thats about it. My GS 430 is fully modded with L-tuned exhaust and still sounds great.
i know, after i drove my m3
08-20-11, 07:07 PM
#21
Nice diversity of opinions and assumptions but i still need to see to believe. Lexus have let me down with a carry over engine (base one too) when they finally managed to build a Performance sedan which seems competitive.. I personally doubt seeing a GS-F but i guess only time will tell..
I do agree that the current gen 460 is a disappointment.. What in the world were they thinking detuning it when the germans are pushing 400+ on their offerings
I do agree that the current gen 460 is a disappointment.. What in the world were they thinking detuning it when the germans are pushing 400+ on their offerings
08-20-11, 07:18 PM
#22
Nice diversity of opinions and assumptions but i still need to see to believe. Lexus have let me down with a carry over engine (base one too) when they finally managed to build a Performance sedan which seems competitive.. I personally doubt seeing a GS-F but i guess only time will tell..
I do agree that the current gen 460 is a disappointment.. What in the world were they thinking detuning it when the germans are pushing 400+ on their offerings
I do agree that the current gen 460 is a disappointment.. What in the world were they thinking detuning it when the germans are pushing 400+ on their offerings
08-20-11, 07:58 PM
#23
When the 3GS came out it had the old 2GS engine with 246hp. The next year they put a new lump in with over 50hp more.
If history repaets we can look forward to another bump in power in the 2014 model.
Unlike most of you guys, the 306 hp offered in the 4GS is ample for me. No, it's not up to AMG or M standards but those cars cost a heck of a lot more.
I won't complain about the power. My complaints are the looks. I was expecting more. It looks cool but actually, I think it looks more like the ES350. Which is nice. Can't wait to see what kind of kits are created for it.
If history repaets we can look forward to another bump in power in the 2014 model.
Unlike most of you guys, the 306 hp offered in the 4GS is ample for me. No, it's not up to AMG or M standards but those cars cost a heck of a lot more.
I won't complain about the power. My complaints are the looks. I was expecting more. It looks cool but actually, I think it looks more like the ES350. Which is nice. Can't wait to see what kind of kits are created for it.
08-20-11, 08:36 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
The hybrid is heavy. There's no denying that. But it isn't *that* much more complicated than say a twin turbo charged, vanos equipped, 4.4L V8 attached to an 8 speed transmission. And the 4GSh should be lighter than the outgoing 3GSh and easily lighter than the F10 550i. The hybrid transmission for example is surprisingly simple in the way it operates. For more information you can visit this link. But it also affords the car with acceleration far better than it's HP numbers would suggest. It has best in class (at least at time of launch) passing numbers (30-50 and 50-70). I think that even if the 4GSh sees only modest HP increase it should easily rival its V8 peers because of the instantaneous torque provided by the electric motors and the planetary gearbox's ability to hold the ICE at max power. All that while returning far better mileage than V8 peers.
Then you bring up cost. The 3GSh was priced slightly less than its V8 peers at the time. I would expect the 4GSh to be priced below the 550i and E550 or at the same point if they believe it is truly completive. All while returning better mileage than the competition not to mention the reduced tailpipe emissions. A lot of people are worried about the battery's lifespan. For one you don't have to worry about paying for that for a good 10 years because of the warranties. And when/if you do it should only be around 3k. You really think that there isn't going to be $3000 in repairs on a turbo 550i after 10+ years/150,000+ miles? It is also important to note that many, many Prius owners have taken their cars well past 300k miles without replacing any hybrid components.
The only thing left to complain about is the "feel" and the trunk. I'll concede on the trunk-it's small, hopefully the 4GSh can improve this area. The feel is another valid point that really depends on the person. I, however, have grown to enjoy the relentless "train like" surge the 450h provides not to mention the snappy passing power up in the mountains.
I do think they should offer an F though, preferably a non-hybrid one at that. The F brand just seems too new to launch something without "speeds" and with a 150-200 pound battery in the trunk.
Then you bring up cost. The 3GSh was priced slightly less than its V8 peers at the time. I would expect the 4GSh to be priced below the 550i and E550 or at the same point if they believe it is truly completive. All while returning better mileage than the competition not to mention the reduced tailpipe emissions. A lot of people are worried about the battery's lifespan. For one you don't have to worry about paying for that for a good 10 years because of the warranties. And when/if you do it should only be around 3k. You really think that there isn't going to be $3000 in repairs on a turbo 550i after 10+ years/150,000+ miles? It is also important to note that many, many Prius owners have taken their cars well past 300k miles without replacing any hybrid components.
The only thing left to complain about is the "feel" and the trunk. I'll concede on the trunk-it's small, hopefully the 4GSh can improve this area. The feel is another valid point that really depends on the person. I, however, have grown to enjoy the relentless "train like" surge the 450h provides not to mention the snappy passing power up in the mountains.
I do think they should offer an F though, preferably a non-hybrid one at that. The F brand just seems too new to launch something without "speeds" and with a 150-200 pound battery in the trunk.
Like you bought a M3 and said to hell with a 335 or a chipped 335. No interest.
I still think its a mistake NOT to offer a regular V-8 b/c that 10% might be the people you WANT buying your car. Again if there was no GS 400, there would be no
1sicklex
rominl
davegs4
j.p
bitkahuna
ck
percy
etc
etc
etc
I mean that is damn near the entire moderator forum
That car brought us here. Now that I think of it tons of old, new mods are GS 400 owners at one time. Not to mention the 2GS forum is one if not the busiest forum and who runs it? GS 400/430 owners, with all due respect to GS 300 owners. I can only hope the IS F/GS F etc continues that tradition of interest.
08-20-11, 09:56 PM
#25
HAHHAHA mike so that means we will have no moderators soon!
i think i see your point, you want v8 to exist, but it's not a car you want yourself. that's perfectly fine and like your m3/335 example i am the same. but just like you, i think 335 should exist and not just all slow 328
back to the v8, to be honest, if they have a hybrid able to compete with the 550i and e550 now (pushing 400hp) in terms of numbers and performance? i think i am ok with that. i don't see the big deal. they put in 2 more cylinders, lexus put in another engine. simple as that. i am good. yes the feeling might be different, sound might be different, but gas mileage too. those are all tradeoffs.
my only fear is that the hybrid is going to be small improvement above the current one and that imho will create a big hole / gap with the competitors, and in terms of brand image, i think that will hurt. that's my 2 cents of course
i think i see your point, you want v8 to exist, but it's not a car you want yourself. that's perfectly fine and like your m3/335 example i am the same. but just like you, i think 335 should exist and not just all slow 328
back to the v8, to be honest, if they have a hybrid able to compete with the 550i and e550 now (pushing 400hp) in terms of numbers and performance? i think i am ok with that. i don't see the big deal. they put in 2 more cylinders, lexus put in another engine. simple as that. i am good. yes the feeling might be different, sound might be different, but gas mileage too. those are all tradeoffs.
my only fear is that the hybrid is going to be small improvement above the current one and that imho will create a big hole / gap with the competitors, and in terms of brand image, i think that will hurt. that's my 2 cents of course
08-20-11, 10:06 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
HAHHAHA mike so that means we will have no moderators soon!
i think i see your point, you want v8 to exist, but it's not a car you want yourself. that's perfectly fine and like your m3/335 example i am the same. but just like you, i think 335 should exist and not just all slow 328
back to the v8, to be honest, if they have a hybrid able to compete with the 550i and e550 now (pushing 400hp) in terms of numbers and performance? i think i am ok with that. i don't see the big deal. they put in 2 more cylinders, lexus put in another engine. simple as that. i am good. yes the feeling might be different, sound might be different, but gas mileage too. those are all tradeoffs.
my only fear is that the hybrid is going to be small improvement above the current one and that imho will create a big hole / gap with the competitors, and in terms of brand image, i think that will hurt. that's my 2 cents of course
i think i see your point, you want v8 to exist, but it's not a car you want yourself. that's perfectly fine and like your m3/335 example i am the same. but just like you, i think 335 should exist and not just all slow 328
back to the v8, to be honest, if they have a hybrid able to compete with the 550i and e550 now (pushing 400hp) in terms of numbers and performance? i think i am ok with that. i don't see the big deal. they put in 2 more cylinders, lexus put in another engine. simple as that. i am good. yes the feeling might be different, sound might be different, but gas mileage too. those are all tradeoffs.
my only fear is that the hybrid is going to be small improvement above the current one and that imho will create a big hole / gap with the competitors, and in terms of brand image, i think that will hurt. that's my 2 cents of course
Considering the 3.5 only got a 3hp bump
and the current GS 450h is detuned to 292, that would mean a bump to 295? Unless they have bigger plans for the GS 450h. I have heard a 10% improvement in MPG so I doubt power is up much, though a 10% bump in power (If I misinterpreted wrong) would be on par with the Panamera S hybrid at 380hp.The M35h makes 360hp but sadly it seems to be another Infiniti dud, no hoopla, no sales, no nothing. Seems no one has bought one on any forum. Its ironic that Infiniti probably helped Lexus putting the GS 450h in their commercials.
Sad b/c the 32 MPG highway rating sounds fantastic as well as the 27 MPG city rating. Thats good stuff rating wise. Hell the M37X gets 17 MPG in the city. That is a HUGE difference.Whats also crazy is the M35h does not have the sport kit as an option whereas Lexus will give the GS 450h the F-sport treatment as an option.
I'll be honest, I don't really wish for a faster 450h. Let online people argue about .2 seconds and get in pissing matches. I would like the 450h to get better MPG, 28-30 MPG would be great.
08-20-11, 10:16 PM
#27
Why the hell would they leave a V8 out of the line-up when Lexus is known for great V8s. If the V6 in the GS350 is as loud and coarse as the V6 in my IS350, the car is going to fail. I would have seriously considered this car had they offered, say the GS460 or some V8 option. The hybrid doesn't fill in the void for a V8. Someone looking for a V8 luxury car isn't going to sway to a hybrid. Lexus needs to re-think what they are doing with this car. I see plenty of the new 550I on the road here in Los Angeles, and Lexus needs a V8 to compete with that. I have been in the market for a new car, and was hoping the new GS would blow my socks off, but i'm not too impressed. The interior is 100% spot on, but the exterior (rear end) could use some tweaking. I'm leaning towards a pre-owned 2011 550I. You can find a CPO 2011 for between $55-60K. You get the balance of the factory warranty, plus an additional 3 year certified warranty. The new Mercedes E550 is also a beautiful car, but the interior doesn't do anything for me. I hope Lexus will introduce another GS V8 at some point.
08-21-11, 12:31 PM
#30
executive matchup
you can always have 2 hybrids types - one for fuel economy, and the other for performance. ideally, 450h pushing 380-400 hp for the performance hybrid, and 300 hp hybrid for fuel economy (which is still plenty hp to boot around in). i believe that performance hybrids are the next technological wave in the future. it will be exciting to see what kind of performance numbers a hybrid can crank out!