Preliminary Specs GS350 (HP, Torque, 0-60, etc.)
08-19-11, 04:49 PM
#31
The thing with Lexus 3.5 NA engine - it works well in every model. This isn't always the case with turbo engine. For instance, the 3.0TT in the BMW works well in a 3 series, where noise and refinement aren't first priority, so they tune it for max output, and the car is a blast. But the same engine in a 5 series, at least the previous gen (haven't driven the new 535 yet) is an absolute dog. They had to refine and quiet it down, and it just feels numb and slow. When we drove last gen 535 at a caddy event, my wife who loves her 335 completely hated the 535, and was extremely disappointed with its performance. The current GS350 is an absolute rocket in comparison.
And the with turbo engine you have other issues as well - economy, reliability, cost of maintenance, and most of all - consistence. I notice our 335 feels significantly slower during hot summer days vs colder months. For a base vehicle that isn't supposed to be some sort of sports rocket but to be a comfortable, reliable, every day driver - a good NA engine is the clear choice, and Lexus 3.5 is simply the best NA engine in its class.
Now for the V-8, it is disapointing none is offered until the GS F comes. I know Henry and I for example would not have been here 10 years ago if it was only a GS 300. 
That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed.
That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed.Jag is actually the only other car that I could consider instead of GS. Its sexy and there isn't 4 of them on every block like E/ES/5
08-19-11, 04:57 PM
#32
With the 3IS coming out in a year and a half, my thought is that it will get the newest/latest/greatest V6 and 8AT at launch, at which time it will also go into the GS as well, either for 2014 or 2015 model year.
New LS comes out around the same time and should be packing a new V8, so if Lexus sees a demand, that would be a good time to drop it into the GS.
As I mentioned in my "why Lexus needs a Camry" thread a while ago, this is where the Lexus business model is "flawed" so to speak. BMW shares the same basic engines and transmissions across the lineup so once you have a new V6 or V8, just for production efficiency and economies of scale, it is spread across the lineup very quickly. For Lexus, some models are Toyota-based, some are on their own platforms, some share, etc. so it's not as easy, quick, or cost effective to plug a new engine into your latest car.
One of the drivers during the test drive events last month asked why they went with a 6AT and the response from Lexus was something like, "It was the 12.3 inch screen or a better transmission, and we felt like people would care more about the screen." To me, that says they had the intention of putting the 8AT in the car but didn't because there was no more money left in the budget. Makes sense, and with the IS sitting on the market as-is until 2013, there is no other car to share costs with.
New LS comes out around the same time and should be packing a new V8, so if Lexus sees a demand, that would be a good time to drop it into the GS.
As I mentioned in my "why Lexus needs a Camry" thread a while ago, this is where the Lexus business model is "flawed" so to speak. BMW shares the same basic engines and transmissions across the lineup so once you have a new V6 or V8, just for production efficiency and economies of scale, it is spread across the lineup very quickly. For Lexus, some models are Toyota-based, some are on their own platforms, some share, etc. so it's not as easy, quick, or cost effective to plug a new engine into your latest car.
One of the drivers during the test drive events last month asked why they went with a 6AT and the response from Lexus was something like, "It was the 12.3 inch screen or a better transmission, and we felt like people would care more about the screen." To me, that says they had the intention of putting the 8AT in the car but didn't because there was no more money left in the budget. Makes sense, and with the IS sitting on the market as-is until 2013, there is no other car to share costs with.
08-19-11, 05:06 PM
#33
Pole Position
Now for the V-8, it is disapointing none is offered until the GS F comes. I know Henry and I for example would not have been here 10 years ago if it was only a GS 300. That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed.
That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed. I'm in that club too. If there were was only a GS300 10 years ago, I wouldn't have even thought of buying a Lexus. I'd likely be a member over on the BMW board right now. lol
One more fact;
BMW just replaced the 6 cylinder 528 with a 4 cylinder turbo model. The price INCREASED 2k, so for $47,000 you get a 4300 lbs 4 cylinder turbo. Some may like that way of things but I don't, especially when the 2013 GS 350 will likely cost the same base vs base.
Seriously, anyone complaining needs to think for a second, every damn car in this class is pretty incredible. And before anyone labels me anything, I have pretty much no interest in the GS 350. My interest is in the GSh and GS F.
You know whats funny, Jaguar with the XF only has V-8s in America.
BMW just replaced the 6 cylinder 528 with a 4 cylinder turbo model. The price INCREASED 2k, so for $47,000 you get a 4300 lbs 4 cylinder turbo. Some may like that way of things but I don't, especially when the 2013 GS 350 will likely cost the same base vs base.
Seriously, anyone complaining needs to think for a second, every damn car in this class is pretty incredible. And before anyone labels me anything, I have pretty much no interest in the GS 350. My interest is in the GSh and GS F.
You know whats funny, Jaguar with the XF only has V-8s in America.
And yeah, absolutely no interest in a GS350, I don't care what generation. I need a V8 (or a 'juiced' V6). Hybrids are so quiet, I don't think I can go that route yet either, maybe 15 years from now I wil enjoy all that serenity.
For now, I need to hear the engine working, especially at WOT. 
08-19-11, 05:54 PM
#34
Now for the V-8, it is disapointing none is offered until the GS F comes. I know Henry and I for example would not have been here 10 years ago if it was only a GS 300. That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed.
That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed. i guess we should wait a little bit and see the gsh release in europe in a few months. that will pretty much seal the whole gs "normal" segment and whether it has enough guts to really go against the rivals.just imagine this, when magazines are doing sports sedan v8 comparo (we see that all the time), they have the 550i, e550, m56, s6, and damn, where the hell is lexus?
Well, if regular V8 wont be available, then I hope GS-F won't be as hardcore as the M5, b/c its just way too much for a daily driver. If they make GS-F somewhere around BMW 550's performance, with maybe a bit more HP and without stiffening the ride up too much, it will be perfect.
truth is, cars like these have to be at the limit and they are pushing that extra bit, it's NOT for the masses by any means, it's for the hardcore ones who have the dough for those "toys". and just imagine the isf with 415hp, and then they come out with the gsf and also 400hp. something doesn't sound right
With the 3IS coming out in a year and a half, my thought is that it will get the newest/latest/greatest V6 and 8AT at launch, at which time it will also go into the GS as well, either for 2014 or 2015 model year.
New LS comes out around the same time and should be packing a new V8, so if Lexus sees a demand, that would be a good time to drop it into the GS.
One of the drivers during the test drive events last month asked why they went with a 6AT and the response from Lexus was something like, "It was the 12.3 inch screen or a better transmission, and we felt like people would care more about the screen." To me, that says they had the intention of putting the 8AT in the car but didn't because there was no more money left in the budget. Makes sense, and with the IS sitting on the market as-is until 2013, there is no other car to share costs with.
New LS comes out around the same time and should be packing a new V8, so if Lexus sees a demand, that would be a good time to drop it into the GS.
One of the drivers during the test drive events last month asked why they went with a 6AT and the response from Lexus was something like, "It was the 12.3 inch screen or a better transmission, and we felt like people would care more about the screen." To me, that says they had the intention of putting the 8AT in the car but didn't because there was no more money left in the budget. Makes sense, and with the IS sitting on the market as-is until 2013, there is no other car to share costs with.
i don't know how far along is lexus' development on the next v8 for the LS, but i hope at least they make sure the 4gs engine bay has enough space
we all remember what happened when lexus tried to stuff the 460 in the 3gs regarding the "choice", i don't know what to think, whether the 8 speed is that much more expensive, or the 12.3" screen is that incredibly more expensive than say a 9".
i will say this though, one "problem" with 8 speed is tq. since the rpm drops so low, tq becomes more important. the 8 speed from lexus so far is ok with the v8 coz' the v8 is producing decent tq. but if it's mated to the v6 with 277tq, would it make driving more difficult and drivers will feel ever more that the car is hunting for gears? i think that can be a big question mark
08-19-11, 07:18 PM
#35
Very good point about the 8AT. Truthfully, if they can get competitive MPG out of the 6AT I really don't care that much...just wonder how much better it could be with two more gears.
The real kicker/draw would be an updated V6 that the 8AT gets mated to
The real kicker/draw would be an updated V6 that the 8AT gets mated to
08-19-11, 07:26 PM
#36
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I'll be honest as a 450h owner the only real thing I miss from the V-8 is the sound. It is just as fast from a start and faster in many cases when it comes to passing power. Drawbacks are a smaller trunk which has rarely been an issue for me. I just got my 90k service done and the hybrid powertrain has been FLAWLESS. I just drove her from Atlanta to Miami on my new 20" Vossen CV3s (shameless plug) and she didn't break a sweat and the passing power when I needed it was great while getting 25 MPG with a loaded car. I'm so used to CVTs now that I PREFER them, something I could not say years ago. When I drive a car and it shifts, I think its old school and intrusive.
We can't even say weight is an issue since the current GS 450h weighs 4100lbs, the same or even LESS than competitors V-8s.
My first Lexus V-8 was the SC 400 which I loved, the GS 400 I loved and the 430. The GS 400 is really what drew me to this site and to Lexus. I felt the "future" was the GS 450h compared to a V-8. If I did a V-8, I am 99% certain it would be some sort of high performance model like Henry did with the M3 or getting an IS F. I'll be honest, my thoughts have changed and driving a regular V-8 around town isn't really appealing to me UNLESS its a high performance model.
I'm not saying Lexus is right at all, clearly V-8s still sell, even in small numbers but I'm one of the people Lexus must have aimed at.
I've changed. I am pretty certain any car we buy here on out that is just something to drive around it will be a hybrid and when the time comes for high performance, I welcome back 12 MPG
We can't even say weight is an issue since the current GS 450h weighs 4100lbs, the same or even LESS than competitors V-8s.
My first Lexus V-8 was the SC 400 which I loved, the GS 400 I loved and the 430. The GS 400 is really what drew me to this site and to Lexus. I felt the "future" was the GS 450h compared to a V-8. If I did a V-8, I am 99% certain it would be some sort of high performance model like Henry did with the M3 or getting an IS F. I'll be honest, my thoughts have changed and driving a regular V-8 around town isn't really appealing to me UNLESS its a high performance model.
I'm not saying Lexus is right at all, clearly V-8s still sell, even in small numbers but I'm one of the people Lexus must have aimed at.
I've changed. I am pretty certain any car we buy here on out that is just something to drive around it will be a hybrid and when the time comes for high performance, I welcome back 12 MPG
08-19-11, 08:29 PM
#37
I don't agree with a potential GS-F competing only with the likes of a 550i. That makes no sense whatsoever.
Lexus can make a GS variant (probably a GSh with ~360-400 horsepower) that competes with the 550i, sure, but don't call it a GS-F.
If Lexus doesn't make a GS-F I will be disappointed.
If Lexus makes a GS-F and only has it compete with the likes of a 550i, I will be even more disappointed.
I'd rather Lexus not create the car at all if they're going to do that. The ISF competes with the M3. The GS-F should compete with the M5/CTS-V.
The GS-F doesn't have to produce 550 HP necessarily. The F10 M5 is 4288 lbs (curb weight). A GS-F that's 200-300 lbs lighter with 500 HP and a lower price tag could be effective.
Lexus can make a GS variant (probably a GSh with ~360-400 horsepower) that competes with the 550i, sure, but don't call it a GS-F.
If Lexus doesn't make a GS-F I will be disappointed.
If Lexus makes a GS-F and only has it compete with the likes of a 550i, I will be even more disappointed.
I'd rather Lexus not create the car at all if they're going to do that. The ISF competes with the M3. The GS-F should compete with the M5/CTS-V.
The GS-F doesn't have to produce 550 HP necessarily. The F10 M5 is 4288 lbs (curb weight). A GS-F that's 200-300 lbs lighter with 500 HP and a lower price tag could be effective.
08-19-11, 08:38 PM
#38
Sales figures for the E60 M5 -
During its five year run, 20,548 units were built composing of 19,523 saloons and 1025 wagons. 8800 were sold in the U.S., all of the sedan variety. Great Britain and Ireland claimed 1776 examples, followed by BMW's home market of Germany with 1647 units, and 1357 were sold in Japan. Italian enthusiasts claimed 512 units, and 339 examples were sold in Australia.
Clearly, this is not a high volume car, and I hope that doesn't deter Lexus from investing in one. It's not always about the sales numbers for the individual cars.
There may be various psychological "trickle down" effects at play as well. A young man may find the BMW M5 to be so "cool" that he buys a 328i. He feels proud to be associated with the likes of an automaker that produces a car like the M5. You get potential "mini"-Halo effects.
The existence of a car like the M5 elevates the prestige of the entire brand.
How many people actually buy brand new S65 AMGs per year? Not that many, and yet Mercedes felt compelled to offer it over an already powerful S63 AMG. The mere existence of the S65 AMG elevates the entire brand name for building prestige luxury sports cars.
During its five year run, 20,548 units were built composing of 19,523 saloons and 1025 wagons. 8800 were sold in the U.S., all of the sedan variety. Great Britain and Ireland claimed 1776 examples, followed by BMW's home market of Germany with 1647 units, and 1357 were sold in Japan. Italian enthusiasts claimed 512 units, and 339 examples were sold in Australia.
Clearly, this is not a high volume car, and I hope that doesn't deter Lexus from investing in one. It's not always about the sales numbers for the individual cars.
There may be various psychological "trickle down" effects at play as well. A young man may find the BMW M5 to be so "cool" that he buys a 328i. He feels proud to be associated with the likes of an automaker that produces a car like the M5. You get potential "mini"-Halo effects.
The existence of a car like the M5 elevates the prestige of the entire brand.
How many people actually buy brand new S65 AMGs per year? Not that many, and yet Mercedes felt compelled to offer it over an already powerful S63 AMG. The mere existence of the S65 AMG elevates the entire brand name for building prestige luxury sports cars.
08-19-11, 09:28 PM
#40
Super Moderator
If you upgrade the third year instead of the second , it will make second year buyer bitter, so on and so forth ......
Last edited by Gojirra99; 08-19-11 at 09:34 PM.
08-19-11, 09:53 PM
#41
yes, and all those didn't end very well. e90 330i get painful resale, a lot of people pissed about the arrangement (when e92 debut with 335). 2001 s55 (if i got the year right) also have awful resale compared to any of the supercharged version too, same reasoning (and it has pretty good power to begin with). i don't prefer this kind of engine update during a generation at all, PERIOD. but i was just saying if i they do that say during facelift, that might have been "better".
08-20-11, 12:52 AM
#42
Just a quick speculation that no one has mentioned - Just look at the hood (engine compartment), isn't kinda big for a 350 V6.. I mean, i think they built it this way for Future Power-plants.. Either it FI V6, V8 or V10.. they all seem to be able to fit nicely..
08-20-11, 01:43 AM
#43
mike that's not a good way for comparison, there are a lot of other factors. but one thing we can say is gs460 is about 300lb lighter than the gs450h. so unless the new hybrid has some much lighter battery and/or improved lighter engine, it's heavier than a comparable v8 variant
yes, and all those didn't end very well. e90 330i get painful resale, a lot of people pissed about the arrangement (when e92 debut with 335). 2001 s55 (if i got the year right) also have awful resale compared to any of the supercharged version too, same reasoning (and it has pretty good power to begin with). i don't prefer this kind of engine update during a generation at all, PERIOD. but i was just saying if i they do that say during facelift, that might have been "better".
yes, and all those didn't end very well. e90 330i get painful resale, a lot of people pissed about the arrangement (when e92 debut with 335). 2001 s55 (if i got the year right) also have awful resale compared to any of the supercharged version too, same reasoning (and it has pretty good power to begin with). i don't prefer this kind of engine update during a generation at all, PERIOD. but i was just saying if i they do that say during facelift, that might have been "better".
so i think 450h might be reasonable alternative these days.
08-20-11, 04:37 AM
#44
Pole Position
08-20-11, 07:21 AM
#45
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