*Batman*

It's 375lbs lighter than the BMW. About the same as the A6.

I think performance will lag. But the A6 feels pretty cheap, so in a way Lexus is positioning the car like Audi has the A8 - nicer than the competition but with a dated power train.

*Batman*

I sometimes wonder if Lexus even has a full time power train division. BMW has launched so many new engines in the last 5 years, you wonder if Lexus's power train engineers have been sleeping or if they don't exist.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

I don't even wonder anymore, I'm ready to make the full blown accusation. Love everything else about Lexus but I'm thinking Rip Van Winkle started to head the division back in 2001 and never left.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

slow"ER", that's pretty different from slow. again for you and me we want speed, of course we think the gs350 is slow. i don't even need the a6 to say that, given i have the m3 and have driven plenty of m5. but then again is the gs350 enough for my daily need if i have to? oh yeah, more than enough. and for those who are driving a camry now? damn the gs350 is a rocket

Vladi

Actually A6 3.0T is 4,045lbs so GS is lighter. A6 2.0T is 3,680lbs and we don't know the weight of GS250 yet.

BMW 528i with 3.0l NA six is actually 3814lbs which is not bad at all, 3.0l TT is same as A6 but 550i is a superpig at 4,300lbs.

Jag XF with V8 NA is around 4,000lbs. Supercharged around 4,300lbs.

ST430

While we're on powertrains and performance, anybody have info on the : "six-speed sequential shift automatic gearbox"? Is this a true sequential transmission a la ferrari and toyco's past mr2 SMT effort or auto w/o lockkup? Very curious about this.

*Batman*

Since Lexus launched the formidable 460 V8, Lexus powertrain division have released these 3 engines (I'm not counting Toyota engines re-used in the CT and HS):
2UR-GSE V8 (2008)
2UR-FSE V8 hybrid (2008)
1LR-GUE V10 (2010)

In the same time BMW has introduced 8 engines (excluding Mini and RR engines):
N57 V6D (2008)
N63 V8TT (2009)
S63 V8TT (2009)
N74 V12 (2009)
N55 I6T (2009)
H63 V8 hybrid (2010)
N20 I4T (2011)
N13 I4TT (2011)

If you start counting from 2009 the picture is even more dire!

I reckon if they launched this new GS with new engines, they could take back the number 3 spot in this segment. With old engines, they'll still sell well, but won't gain a big share.

Mr. Burns

That's a flawed way of looking at it. For example I can also list the number of new models BMW has come out with over the last two years and compare them to Lexus and BMW would win by a long shot. However the situation would be reversed if we were having this conversation 2 years from now.

BKE420

wonder if lexus is going to pull the '06-'07 GS enging swap?

MR_F1

I think it would be absolutely retarded to have so many different specs of powertrains. It's a silly and petty comparison, and Toyota/Lexus make some of the best motors in the business (silly decisions like de-tuning the GS460 aside). Moot point.

Re: A6 3.0T, with very similar torque to weight ratio's, I doubt the A6 will "feel" much if any faster than the GS and I'm willing to be that in actual testing, their difference won't be more than a tenth or two in acceleration figures, with 0 difference in the real world.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Most of these BMW engines are redundant, they are the same engines with different displacement. The current Lexus/Toyota V8 has several variations as well.

4.6L V8 in LS460
4.6L V8 in GS460 (detuned)
4.6L V8 in GX460 (completely different)
5.7L V8 in LX570
5.0L V8 in IS-F
5.0L V8 + hybird in LS600h

And if you're not going to count Toyota I4 engines used in HS/CT, then don't count BMW's 4 cyl engines either, as they clearly have no place in a premium car.

*Batman*

First of all you are wrong. The ones above are different engines. I didn't count the GX460 and LX570 engine because those are from 2007 and were first used in the Tundra. I also didn't include the 460 engines because those are also 2007.

Secondly, its common sense that an new car introduction is likely to be more successful with new engines.

*Batman*

So in that case you believe the new GS350 will deliver acceleration similar to the outgoing GS450h, because thats what independent test have measured on the A6. I don't believe it, and Lexus doesn't either according to their press release.

LexFather

Lexus can't win with some. When they lead with engines, technology, etc, the detractors don't mention it. When the Lexus gets old, then you here every reason in the book why is sucks.

As Mr. Burns stated, we live in a moving world, Lexus had a stronger argument in 2006/2007.

Funny but the LFA has an engine that only Porsche can match for rareness, sound and intensity but the arguement then becomes "oh only 500" or "who cares that car doesn't count".

Some people don't like turbos. I mean it take BMW turbos to make the power of a N/A Lexus. The Lexus 4.6 makes 380hp, BMW needs turbos to make 20 more hp from a similar displacement engine.

The fact is the brands have their own philosophies on things and do things differently. The Germans have had a HP race for a decade now. Everytime they declare its over, someone comes with more power. Its crazy and cool at the same time.

Again the facts are
1. The GS is lightest in class (I don't count a FWD,4 cylinder A6, you can keep that)
2. The "old" 3.5 V-6 still offers near best in class MPG and acceleration.

If someone wants to complain about a HP rating, i have free subscriptions to C&D I can send them.

Now for the V-8, it is disapointing none is offered until the GS F comes. I know Henry and I for example would not have been here 10 years ago if it was only a GS 300. That said I think bitkahuna hinted that Lexus probably focused a lot more on this version of the hybrid compared to the current one which was a first of its kind and damn near a test bed.

One more fact;

BMW just replaced the 6 cylinder 528 with a 4 cylinder turbo model. The price INCREASED 2k, so for $47,000 you get a 4300 lbs 4 cylinder turbo. Some may like that way of things but I don't, especially when the 2013 GS 350 will likely cost the same base vs base.

Seriously, anyone complaining needs to think for a second, every damn car in this class is pretty incredible. And before anyone labels me anything, I have pretty much no interest in the GS 350. My interest is in the GSh and GS F.

You know whats funny, Jaguar with the XF only has V-8s in America.

Mr. Burns

A6 3.0T runs with the V8s in the segment, and it needs to considering it's the most powerful engine you can get in that car.