Lexus ExtraCare Fraud on my GS460
07-10-14, 10:46 AM
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Lexus ExtraCare Fraud on my GS460
So I took my GS 460 into Putnam Lexus for an oil consumption test at Lexus Corporate's suggestion. Oil consumption test came back with 1.9 qts burned in 1200 miles. I think they may have overfilled it too, but whatever, that's what the number came out to. This started when the car had 93K on it (I told them I could have the shop where I take my car write a letter) and the consumption test started a bit before 110K.
After the test the dealer calls me and says, "Your car is exceeding the factory specs for consumption, there is definately a problem, we need to tear down the engine to figure out where the oil is going. Do you approve the charges?" I say, nope, I have the extended warranty which runs out 1/20/2015 or ~120K miles (according to my extended warranty application, more on this later).
I asked if they need maintenence records on the car or any further documentation from me (I don't have the dealer do the servicing of the car) and Putnam Lexus says, I've seen these cases before and Lexus is more interested in maintaining goodwill (side note: I'm 37, have bought 4 lexus' in the past and have a lifetime of purchases ahead of me, hopefully!) so he doubts this will be a big deal and they will be able to take care of it quickly once everyone at Lexus is sync'd up.
So my car sits at Putnam for a week and then I get the call: Lexus is dening goodwill and if you want to talk to someone call the 800 number and open a case. What about the warranty I purchased I say? The car is out of warranty he says and you can talk to you case manager about that too. Oh we prefer you return our rental car today.
Wow.
So I call the 800 number, wait 3 days (standard policy) for someone to return my call despite the fact that there is a case open on the issue. Judy at Lexus calls me back and was quite standoffish, unhelpful in every way. Later, she even closed my case 2 times after without any sort of resolution! One time she transfered me to the Lexus Care 800 number, hung up and closed my case without any sort of information about next steps. I reopened the case and her "supervisor" calls me back because I requested escalation (I didn't) didn't really answer anything or was willing to write anything down and told me to call Extra Care and Coliseum Lexus and then closed my case again!
Bottom line on denial is this:
Lexus Care changed the dates/mileages on the application and never calls me to say anything about it. Neither they or Coliseum Lexus confirms those changes with me, nor did I ever get their booklet that evidently shows the changes. However, they are now holding me to the dates/mileages that they changed things to?
I've now talked with the GM at Coliseum Lexus where I purchased the car and he is going to go back to Lexus Care to see what they have to say about it. He says the documentation is ambiguous, confusing and is "relieved that this is their problem to solve and not his".
I'm going to see this through to some sort of resolution as I don't appreciate being treated this way, especially by Lexus Corporate. They could really write a case study on this situation to show how to alienate a customer and kill goodwill built up over the better part of 15 years in less than 1 week. Well done Lexus!
I'll update this thread when the next communication comes through, wish me luck.
After the test the dealer calls me and says, "Your car is exceeding the factory specs for consumption, there is definately a problem, we need to tear down the engine to figure out where the oil is going. Do you approve the charges?" I say, nope, I have the extended warranty which runs out 1/20/2015 or ~120K miles (according to my extended warranty application, more on this later).
I asked if they need maintenence records on the car or any further documentation from me (I don't have the dealer do the servicing of the car) and Putnam Lexus says, I've seen these cases before and Lexus is more interested in maintaining goodwill (side note: I'm 37, have bought 4 lexus' in the past and have a lifetime of purchases ahead of me, hopefully!) so he doubts this will be a big deal and they will be able to take care of it quickly once everyone at Lexus is sync'd up.
So my car sits at Putnam for a week and then I get the call: Lexus is dening goodwill and if you want to talk to someone call the 800 number and open a case. What about the warranty I purchased I say? The car is out of warranty he says and you can talk to you case manager about that too. Oh we prefer you return our rental car today.
Wow.
So I call the 800 number, wait 3 days (standard policy) for someone to return my call despite the fact that there is a case open on the issue. Judy at Lexus calls me back and was quite standoffish, unhelpful in every way. Later, she even closed my case 2 times after without any sort of resolution! One time she transfered me to the Lexus Care 800 number, hung up and closed my case without any sort of information about next steps. I reopened the case and her "supervisor" calls me back because I requested escalation (I didn't) didn't really answer anything or was willing to write anything down and told me to call Extra Care and Coliseum Lexus and then closed my case again!
Bottom line on denial is this:
Lexus Care changed the dates/mileages on the application and never calls me to say anything about it. Neither they or Coliseum Lexus confirms those changes with me, nor did I ever get their booklet that evidently shows the changes. However, they are now holding me to the dates/mileages that they changed things to?
I've now talked with the GM at Coliseum Lexus where I purchased the car and he is going to go back to Lexus Care to see what they have to say about it. He says the documentation is ambiguous, confusing and is "relieved that this is their problem to solve and not his".
I'm going to see this through to some sort of resolution as I don't appreciate being treated this way, especially by Lexus Corporate. They could really write a case study on this situation to show how to alienate a customer and kill goodwill built up over the better part of 15 years in less than 1 week. Well done Lexus!
I'll update this thread when the next communication comes through, wish me luck.
Last edited by 2008gs460; 07-10-14 at 02:58 PM.
07-10-14, 11:47 PM
#4
Long story short. Went to Longo and bought my GS430. Brakes were squealing and got worst every few days. Pads, Rotors and all the components looked good, but it was getting horribly loud every day the passed. My rep/services advisors and his tech actually found the problem. When they restored the car to be sold in the lot. They did all the maintenance and new pads and rotors and so on. It ends up that the tech who worked on my car made the mistake and used a wrong component (I forgot which) but they basically mismatched the wrong parts. So in my eyes it was their fault. The mistake happened at the dealership I bought the car at and it was being serviced there too. They tried to have me pay for i,. But then I explained to them, If I bought my car from you guys with warranty and your tech even found out it was another tech that messed up in the first place, who's fault is it? The service supervisor denied the warranty and goodwill. I made a small case of it with my S.A. (who was always awesome, thank you Jimmy 
) They ended up saying they'd pay for the parts and I'd have to cover labor, though I still said no. I felt like I was right and I made sure I contacted all the people I know that would hear me out. Give in mind I was actually a car salesman accross the street at Spirit Honda for a Year and at Wonderies Toyota for another year. hehehe. So I kind of knew how the chain of command worked. I emailed the GM, Longo/Penske and CC'd the Service manager on all the emails and on top of that I called them personally and left voicemails about my experience and how I've left them an complaint email. I even called Lexus Corp and talked to a rep and emailed them as well. I wasn't rude but I gave them a piece of my mind.They all replied to me and apologized and took my side on the case. They got on the shop supervisors case and covered the whole service and rental.
It sounds like youre in the right so do what it takes to get the right peoples attention.
Good luck !
) They ended up saying they'd pay for the parts and I'd have to cover labor, though I still said no. I felt like I was right and I made sure I contacted all the people I know that would hear me out. Give in mind I was actually a car salesman accross the street at Spirit Honda for a Year and at Wonderies Toyota for another year. hehehe. So I kind of knew how the chain of command worked. I emailed the GM, Longo/Penske and CC'd the Service manager on all the emails and on top of that I called them personally and left voicemails about my experience and how I've left them an complaint email. I even called Lexus Corp and talked to a rep and emailed them as well. I wasn't rude but I gave them a piece of my mind.They all replied to me and apologized and took my side on the case. They got on the shop supervisors case and covered the whole service and rental.It sounds like youre in the right so do what it takes to get the right peoples attention.
Good luck !
Last edited by YogiFTLC; 07-10-14 at 11:53 PM.
07-11-14, 09:45 AM
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I provided the Lexus Corporate case manager with a package of documentation including the original application agreement, the sales contract and various other things. I also included a letter with it and asked them to respond, in writing, to my assertions. I could not provide the pamphlet with the modified dates/mileages, because I never got one.
She called me back, flatly refused to write anything down, transfered me to Lexus Care, hung up and closed my case.
Lexus Care was a 1st level call center that really could only repeat details from the modified contract and send canned form letters in the mail to me that may be relevant to my issue. They said for further investigation I need to talk with the Lexus Corp case manager. But, the case manager closed my case by handing me off to someone who had no authority to actually resolve or speak to my problem!
So as of today I'm being held to dates and mileages that I didn't agree to, that were changed without my permission/knowledge and of which I possess no written documentation.
I'm a human in the Lexus circular file!
So now I'm waiting for the GM at Coliseum Lexus to get back to me, it seems his contact at Lexus Care (hopefully someone other than that call center) is on vacation until next week.
She called me back, flatly refused to write anything down, transfered me to Lexus Care, hung up and closed my case.
Lexus Care was a 1st level call center that really could only repeat details from the modified contract and send canned form letters in the mail to me that may be relevant to my issue. They said for further investigation I need to talk with the Lexus Corp case manager. But, the case manager closed my case by handing me off to someone who had no authority to actually resolve or speak to my problem!
So as of today I'm being held to dates and mileages that I didn't agree to, that were changed without my permission/knowledge and of which I possess no written documentation.
I'm a human in the Lexus circular file!
So now I'm waiting for the GM at Coliseum Lexus to get back to me, it seems his contact at Lexus Care (hopefully someone other than that call center) is on vacation until next week.
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07-11-14, 12:31 PM
#8
So I read through all these posts and I'm not sure I missed this or not, but you have the original warranty paperwork with the mileage you agreed to, with your signature?
If so, than I agree with Schmexus, contact a lawyer and provide the documentation you have to him, for a small fee he can send a letter with your documentation and request they provide the changes to your warranty with your signature Lexus claims to have... Unfortunately, it takes the next step sometimes to get companies to stop giving you the run around. Good luck!
If so, than I agree with Schmexus, contact a lawyer and provide the documentation you have to him, for a small fee he can send a letter with your documentation and request they provide the changes to your warranty with your signature Lexus claims to have... Unfortunately, it takes the next step sometimes to get companies to stop giving you the run around. Good luck!
07-11-14, 01:09 PM
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You didn't miss a thing. This whole experience is other worldly.
Yes, I have the original paperwork, yes it is filled out differently than what the warranty evidently says. Yes, I provided it to the case manager at lexus and was told verbally (remember they refuse to write anything down) "it doesn't matter, this type of contract means x and y even though the original application says a and b."
As far as legal representation, the suggestion was to exhaust all avenues with Lexus before taking that step. However, let me summarize the legal discussions I've had regarding this matter relevant to my personal situation, maybe this will help someone in the future:
1) If there is ambiguity in the contract, it favors the insured.
2) You cannot send a 6 page pamphlet which changes the terms and mail it to the consumer years after the purchase of the contract was made.
3) Mandatory arbitration is not required if one can meet the prima facie case of fraud.
4) Statements made by the selling dealer are binding, as rule of agency, he is the agent for Lexus Financial.
I'm going to let things play out with Coliseum and Lexus Financial. I still have hope that Lexus will do the right thing for a customer who has owned multiple lexii with extended warranties and has never made a claim before.
Yes, I have the original paperwork, yes it is filled out differently than what the warranty evidently says. Yes, I provided it to the case manager at lexus and was told verbally (remember they refuse to write anything down) "it doesn't matter, this type of contract means x and y even though the original application says a and b."
As far as legal representation, the suggestion was to exhaust all avenues with Lexus before taking that step. However, let me summarize the legal discussions I've had regarding this matter relevant to my personal situation, maybe this will help someone in the future:
1) If there is ambiguity in the contract, it favors the insured.
2) You cannot send a 6 page pamphlet which changes the terms and mail it to the consumer years after the purchase of the contract was made.
3) Mandatory arbitration is not required if one can meet the prima facie case of fraud.
4) Statements made by the selling dealer are binding, as rule of agency, he is the agent for Lexus Financial.
I'm going to let things play out with Coliseum and Lexus Financial. I still have hope that Lexus will do the right thing for a customer who has owned multiple lexii with extended warranties and has never made a claim before.
Last edited by 2008gs460; 07-11-14 at 04:05 PM.
07-17-14, 10:43 AM
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Coliseum Lexus got back to me after a week and a half and gave me the same line about the dates and that I was wrong and further since I didn't bring my car in at 93K I'm at fault and said goodbye. I'm now getting blamed in a whole new way!
Putnam got back to me and let me know they can fix my car for the smoking deal of $8800 + tax (they did advise that this is worst case scenario although it might be less!). And no, they won't give me Lexus warranty pricing, nor Lexus parts pricing. Seemingly, they are giving me no break at all on anything.
I have engaged with one more person in Lexus Financial in Torrance now. Only talked once this morning. I will say the conversation started out with the "We cannot help you line", however, I told her this: I have an application that says I've got coverage until this date/mileage. The contract when issued removes 1.5 years from the time and 20K miles from the covered period. That's a 20%+ reduction in what I thought I was getting for the same price. It's my decision to make if I'm still interested, not Lexus Financial's. A customer cannot make that decision if nobody tells me I need to make it.
She was the first person to actually listen to my comments and not immediately dismiss them. So that's progress, I'd say. I emailed all of the documentation justifing my claim and she'll get back to me early next week.
I'm not going away. I truly believe that I have a legit gripe here and will not stop until they directly ack my complaints and stop the smoke/mirrors stuff.
Putnam got back to me and let me know they can fix my car for the smoking deal of $8800 + tax (they did advise that this is worst case scenario although it might be less!). And no, they won't give me Lexus warranty pricing, nor Lexus parts pricing. Seemingly, they are giving me no break at all on anything.
I have engaged with one more person in Lexus Financial in Torrance now. Only talked once this morning. I will say the conversation started out with the "We cannot help you line", however, I told her this: I have an application that says I've got coverage until this date/mileage. The contract when issued removes 1.5 years from the time and 20K miles from the covered period. That's a 20%+ reduction in what I thought I was getting for the same price. It's my decision to make if I'm still interested, not Lexus Financial's. A customer cannot make that decision if nobody tells me I need to make it.
She was the first person to actually listen to my comments and not immediately dismiss them. So that's progress, I'd say. I emailed all of the documentation justifing my claim and she'll get back to me early next week.
I'm not going away. I truly believe that I have a legit gripe here and will not stop until they directly ack my complaints and stop the smoke/mirrors stuff.
07-17-14, 10:53 AM
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I actually found the original copy of my application agreement. It doesn't have my signature on it! The original case manager faxed me a copy of what they had and it does have a signature similar to my own on it. How did it get there? The mystery continues.
I cannot remember, but, since the mileage was wrong on the application I probably saw it and said I won't sign that, the mileage is wrong!
BTW, the GM at Coliseum Lexus was unwilling/unable to respond to that... Actually he said it doesn't matter because the contract was from so long ago. Uh, okay buddy...
09-24-14, 09:41 AM
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Closing the loop on this for those interested.
Long story short, I had to get legal representation. Action was threatened and the dealer (after 4 weeks of thinking about it) will be refunding my extended warranty cost. It took 3 months to get here and I'm still surprised that nobody at Lexus or the various dealers I've dealt with offered anything in the way of goodwill or anything. I'm thankful that the dealer is "making it right" all things considered, but, boy was this process difficut.
Thus, this case is finally coming to a close and I'm sorry to say, this will be the last Lexus I'll ever purchase.
Long story short, I had to get legal representation. Action was threatened and the dealer (after 4 weeks of thinking about it) will be refunding my extended warranty cost. It took 3 months to get here and I'm still surprised that nobody at Lexus or the various dealers I've dealt with offered anything in the way of goodwill or anything. I'm thankful that the dealer is "making it right" all things considered, but, boy was this process difficut.
Thus, this case is finally coming to a close and I'm sorry to say, this will be the last Lexus I'll ever purchase.
09-24-14, 11:12 AM
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Negative. Nobody wants to help with the problem that initiated this whole debacle. I was looking at the alldatadiy for the car and it pretty much says any oil between 0w-50 is okay for the 1UR-FSE with 0w-20 best for "startup performance".
So I'm going to start messing with different weights and trend it to see what happens. I've been changing the oil with Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 every 2500 miles for awhile now and I think consumption is much better on that oil, perhaps as high as 1100 miles/qt so I'm open to a science experiment when I go through all of the ultra that I bought previously.
So I'm going to start messing with different weights and trend it to see what happens. I've been changing the oil with Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 every 2500 miles for awhile now and I think consumption is much better on that oil, perhaps as high as 1100 miles/qt so I'm open to a science experiment when I go through all of the ultra that I bought previously.