BinaryJay

Sent them a pic but only after I had talked to them and they told me to keep driving it (I was on the road, I pulled over as soon as I could after I noticed the clouds of smoke pouring out the back). I sent the email to the service manager but as it turns out he doesn't work on Saturdays.

In any case, they told me they made a record of telling me that I could keep driving it so if my driving it to them instead of towing it caused any additional damage I am off the hook.

What exactly gets removed and replaced during the valve spring job that might cause coolant to start entering the cylinders?

If they do diagnose coolant in the cylinders, would a day of driving it with that condition cause any other problems other than the obvious cosmetic ones... such as irreversible catalytic converter damage? Would a coolant leak into one of the cylinders cause the coolant itself to get contaminated? I assume that this would warrant at the very least an oil change to get rid of contamination in the oil but I'm not sure if a coolant change would also be expected.

Do you guys think all of that crud will clean off the exhaust tips and bumper? I sure hope so, because I get the feeling that going after Lexus to fix cosmetic issues caused by a botched repair job might be tricky though I would feel totally entitled to it.

If they do determine that the repair job was at fault for this, I am going to feel especially pissed because not only did they return the car with my wheels damaged but also returned it freaking more broken mechanically than it was when it went in. :|

I hope I get a sincere apology (after correcting everything to my satisfaction) and admittance of their mistakes at the very least.

TWong350

iTrader: (8)

J-,

WOW! I haven't been on the boards in a long time now. I just responded to your IM only to find this right after!

White smoke is a definite indicator of water/coolant burning. Valve stem seals would cause oil to enter the combustion chamber and cause a blue-ish smoke. That said, it definitely sounds like a potential head gasket issue.

But...it really depends on how they did the valve springs. There are two ways of doing it and I'm assuming that they tried #1.

1. Cylinder heads left in place. Using a leak down tester (or equivalent) to pressurize the cylinder while they remove the valve springs. Leaving the heads in place, it allows them to pressurize the cylinder to prevent the valves from falling into the cylinders when the retainers are removed. Not a complicated process but failure to properly pressurize the cylinder can result to a valve falling and the heads needing full removal.

2. Full removal of the heads and replacement of the valve springs on a shop bench.


Now they could have messed up the valve stem seals while they were replacing the springs, but really not likely. I haven't looked at the TSIB for valve replacement but do you know if it indicated that the valve stem seals should be replaced along with the springs?

One other thing, I have never taken off the intake manifold on our cars but sometimes intake manifolds have coolant passages running through them as well and can share the same gasket with the intake manifold. If the gasket here has gone bad, it can cause coolant to leak into the intake track. Dunno...just a thought.

A good cooling system pressure test should help reveal the issue. A leak down test can definitely shed some light too.

Good luck and keep us posted.

LexFather

Considering this is a new recall and it seems you are one of the first to do it doubt there is much info here in regards to what is done. I'd take it back to the dealer ASAP.

BinaryJay

The correction states:

Completed TSB #2595 (likely to not mean anything to any of you since it's probably Canada specific). Replaced all valve springs and gaskets.

Parts:
1 - 11213-31040 - Gasket
1 - 11214-31020 - Gasket
1 - 11328-31030 - Gasket
24 - 13741-0P010 - Retainer
1 - 17176-31020 - Gasket
1 - 23915-46011 - Insulator Fuel Pu
2 - 90430-16012 - Gasket (2)
1 - 90430-A0001 - Gasket
24 - 90501-30030 - Spring
4 - 11159-0P010 - Gasket

I'm looking at the US TSB for this that you sent me:



So it does appear that they are using the updated parts (expected). So the most suspicious part here is that 11213-31040 is the cylinder head cover gasket. And 11214-31020 cylinder head cover no. 2 gasket

So either they botched the replacement of one of these gaskets, or the gaskets the used came defective out of the package but that seems to me that it might be the most likely cause. Bad gasket or bad install = coolant and/or oil burning + not thoroughly testing things after this major surgery = fed up binary jay.

Still looking for advice for when they come to the same conclusion (perhaps) and tear the car apart (again) if they really ought to be replacing any other fluids or components as a result of this error.

TWong350

iTrader: (8)

Based on this info, it appears as though the TSIB is suggestion option #1 in my previous post. I pulled up the TSIB to confirm this (step 39 shows the compressed air). Also confirmed that they did not replace the valve stem seals at all. Just the springs and retainers (Steps 44 and 45).

The cylinder head cover gaskets are just valve cover gaskets and have zero relation to the issue here. If these weren't put in correctly, then you'd just have an oil leak in the engine compartment.

The other thing it could be is coolant from the throttle body, if coolant is fed there. Look at step 14 of the TSIB. It references "Do not disconnect the water bypass hose".

But yeah, the first thing I'd do if I were given the car to look at would be to first confirm if it was coolant or oil that's burning. Seems to be to be coolant, based on your description. From here, I'm pressure test the coolant system. If there's indication that the system will not hold pressure, I'd start it up after about 10-15 minutes under pressure and see if it smokes upon startup. This 10-15 minutes should give it some time to enter the combustion chamber. Once that's confirmed, I'd pull all plugs to inspect. I guarantee one or more (or all) of them will be cleaner than the others.

No real damage would occur, really. If anything, it helped clean the carbon on the valves!

charmz

what dealership do you go to if you dont mind me asking?

BinaryJay

I'd rather not say right now as I think it would be unfair of me to put a spotlight on them before I get the whole story about what's happening here. I have confidence that they will make things right one way or another, and I suppose it's possible that this problem could be totally unrelated coincidental occurrence.

jtrue28

I still haven't gotten a letter, and the online Lexus site doesn't say anything about my car needing the recall....is this correct for my 2008?

Sorry you've had such a horrible experience Jay...definitely get it back to the dealership ASAP. Keep us informed as to what they do to fix it.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I also read that BMW changed the steering on this 5 to more of an electronically assisted set up....more like Lexus. It no longer has that BMW feel. Since I don't like the plain Jane looks, everything negative that's added on makes it that much longer before we give in and start liking it. Like we do with every BMW.

As for the topic, I was afraid to take mine in for this repair thinking they might screw something up. The JMLexus techs have been pretty good over the years but I get nervous when the enhine is opened.
I really hope the issues are resolved on this one. That will make me feel better about doing it.

BinaryJay

If anybody is watching this thread and waiting to find out what the heck happened with my car, I unfortunately still do not have any news. I was promised when I brought the car in that they would look at it and call me on Monday but it never happened.

So, I'm not sure if they've looked at it and are doing something about it and simply haven't thought to give me the courtesy of filling me in on what they are tearing apart now or they just never got around to it yet.

I hate having to call and pester them every time so I'm going to give them another day to give me some news.

CAK 500

I say pester them. To death if necessary.

BinaryJay

In my experience pestering people usually does not result in their best effort being made. I know it sure doesn't work on me.

Kcook700

iTrader: (2)

In my experience, white smoke means the engine is burning oil.

Some of the other comments sound legit too. The orangish color is probably from coolant. They would have had to pulled the head(s) on the car to replace the valves, so they could have f-ed up on the re-install of the head(s). Possibly its not seating correct on the block.

BinaryJay

If there was enough coolant going out the back to condense into an orange sludge shouldn't I be worried about all of my exhaust components downstream ... like my brand new O2 sensors, or catalytic converter or will that crap all burn away safely eventually after the problem is corrected?

BinaryJay

My car is ready to be picked up.

First piece of good news is that they said they replaced the wheel they damaged (they specifically said it was replaced and not refinished).

Second, they asked me -- Who did the last oil change on your car? I asked why? They told me that the cause of the smoking was that the oil was overfilled and some combination of "putting a cleaner through when they do the springs" (no cleaning procedure was documented on my invoice). Anyway, the cleaner part didn't make any sense to me and I'm not too sure about overfilled oil either.

At any rate, I informed them that THEY were the last ones to change the oil as documented on the invoice from when they did the service bulletin for the ECU and O2 sensors. They said they had no record of that but when you look at the parts list fo rthe TSB it has ELEMENT, FILTER, Gasket, Oil-Engine.

They said they did a drain and fill of the oil no charge, but I'm bringing that invoice just to remind them that they were the ones that screwed it up if that's what they're blaming it on.

Apparently they did an "Executive Detailing" on the car (I guess to make up for the damage), but I'm not sure what that involves... in fact, it kind of scares me if they had somebody with a rotary buffer on my car without my consent.

I was told the car was road tested and running fine, so hopefully I don't pick it up and step on it and see plumes of smoke coming out the back. :|

BTW they had the car a total of three full days. Seems like a long time to bolt on a new wheel and change the oil. Maybe something else was going on that I'm not being told about.