GS compared to ES
09-11-07, 06:32 PM
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GS compared to ES
If anybody's interested in my impressions of the 2007 GS vs the 2007 ES having had time with both.
I know that they are 2 different cars for different buyers, but with the big price difference yet seemingly same engine size and interior space, many wonder why the price difference, so they are comparable in that sense and many people have been choosing between the two.
In summary, the ES is clearly entry level luxury more concerned with the appearance of luxury but doesn't quite deliver it in the overall experience. I'd say that it's imitation luxury rather than the real thing.
The GS exceeds the ES on many many points and can in my opinion be classed within the luxury segment, although it could still do better on some points, mainly to do with having more Lexus quality throughout the cabin eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment, rather than these things feeling like a Toyota.
The ES though does not do enough to get away from it's Camry roots. Externally it looks nicer than a Camry and nicer than a GS (in my opinion), but from a distance you can actually mistake it for a Camry. Although inside the first impression you get is Lexus, the impression after a while is that it's a Toyota / Lexus hybrid. It's soul is a Toyota, whereas the GS is a Lexus with some Toyota parts that spoil it a little bit but do not do enough to alter the fact that it's a Lexus.
Indeed, I'd say that the previous generation ES felt more of a solid car than this one. The latest ES feels lighter and therefore a bit cheaper and even more like a Camry.
Interior as well as exterior design wise, it looks lovely. But the everyday details let it down, unlike the GS. You really need the under leg booster extension since the driver's seats is too short. The same is true in the back but you don't have that option. It's an ample cabin so it should be comfortable for adults in the back and that's what it's designed for, but with short seats it defeats the purpose.
The front armrest is totally in the wrong position. I'm tall enough to sit quite far back but my elbow sits on the release. Totally uncomfortable. If you're short, then the center console is behind you. This is not a problem in the GS.
These details and others begin to defeat the proposition. It should be a more comfort orientated car compared to the GS with more space in the back and a softer, non sports ride. But it's actually got less comfortable seating all round and an unusable armrest. The front wheel drive creates more legroom in the back but further betrays it's non luxury roots. It corners ok, but feels like a boat. The GS is the same size but the weight distribution makes it feel smaller.
There are many important quality deficiencies / sub luxury touches. The standard stereo in the ES is a joke compared to the GS. It's actually amongst the worst standard stereos I've heard in any car.
The boot closing action is terrible and too light. Maybe designed for old people with arthritis but feels incredbily cheap. The GS again feels higher quality here.
The GS will give you external electrochromatic mirrors. Seems a small detail but when switching between the interior which is EC and the exterior which isn't, you notice it. The GS also has a smog sensor, which is one of my favourite features. Its failed to switch quickly enough only once in my GS, until that one incident I was always breathing clean air. Also the GS has a pollen / dust cleaning recirculating mode. Press a button and the air inside the car will be automatically cleaned for about 3 minutes. In the Lexus line up, I believe only the LS and maybe LX also has this.
The steering wheel on the ES has terrible cheap feeling buttons. Definitely not luxury. The GS center console with speed dials for bluetooth is a big advantage, much quicker than voice recognition. The voice recognition on the ES seems to be better on the ES though.
The engine is a big contradiction too. The GS has torque lower down, the ES much higher up. You therefore have to push the ES much more when you want to accelerate which detracts from the luxury serenity it's supposed to give you. There's also hesitation when kicking down which almost got me in trouble once when the car just didn't respond as quickly as I'm used to in the GS.
There are though a few convenience places where the ES wins. Integrated coat hooks that retract. They feel well made and add the right luxury touch. The GS doesn't have this (although maybe added to the 2008?). The sun visors on the ES are notably more solid while the GS ones feel a bit lightweight. With a direct comparison it's even more stark a feeling. The overhead sunglasses compartment on the GS is very plasticy and has a poor action. The ES is stil plastic but thicker, better put together and has a better action.
The ES interior lighting is much brighter and therefore much more useful, as are the puddle lights. With all of the above, it seems that they took some GS shortcomings and made a concious effort to not repeat them on the ES. Also if boot space is important than the ES wins by far.
So yes there are a few things that the ES does better. But overall, these advantages are minor compared to the more important things the ES does badly and that the GS does well, at least for me. Much better engine with torque lower down is so much better on the highway, more confidence on cornering, useable center armrest, much better standard stereo, enough rear room when I need it.
Indeed, although I haven't driven the IS, I'd say that unless room was really important, the IS would be far better than the ES.
What else do you get for your extra on the GS, at least in California? Cornering headlights, center lcd console even with non nav, smog sensor, automatic air cleaning, EC outside mirrors, rear sunshade, rain sensing wipers.
If they swapped out the small number of parts of the GS interior eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment that feel like a Toyota, then the GS would move from 80% luxury to nearly 100% quite easily.
The ES on the other hand is best described as imitation luxury. A cars whose basics are not luxury with luxury added on top, sometimes without thought and poorly executed. The armrest alone is a serious flaw - in the wrong position with a plastic button on it's surface.
So if you're considering the ES vs GS, I suggest you look very hard since for me the extra is definitely worth it. The ES is cheaper for a reason. The ES Lexus novelty wears off after a while and you're left with things that shouldn't be wrong in a luxury car. You may as well have purchased a Camry or Accord to have provided about the same service for thousands less without wood trim.
I know that they are 2 different cars for different buyers, but with the big price difference yet seemingly same engine size and interior space, many wonder why the price difference, so they are comparable in that sense and many people have been choosing between the two.
In summary, the ES is clearly entry level luxury more concerned with the appearance of luxury but doesn't quite deliver it in the overall experience. I'd say that it's imitation luxury rather than the real thing.
The GS exceeds the ES on many many points and can in my opinion be classed within the luxury segment, although it could still do better on some points, mainly to do with having more Lexus quality throughout the cabin eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment, rather than these things feeling like a Toyota.
The ES though does not do enough to get away from it's Camry roots. Externally it looks nicer than a Camry and nicer than a GS (in my opinion), but from a distance you can actually mistake it for a Camry. Although inside the first impression you get is Lexus, the impression after a while is that it's a Toyota / Lexus hybrid. It's soul is a Toyota, whereas the GS is a Lexus with some Toyota parts that spoil it a little bit but do not do enough to alter the fact that it's a Lexus.
Indeed, I'd say that the previous generation ES felt more of a solid car than this one. The latest ES feels lighter and therefore a bit cheaper and even more like a Camry.
Interior as well as exterior design wise, it looks lovely. But the everyday details let it down, unlike the GS. You really need the under leg booster extension since the driver's seats is too short. The same is true in the back but you don't have that option. It's an ample cabin so it should be comfortable for adults in the back and that's what it's designed for, but with short seats it defeats the purpose.
The front armrest is totally in the wrong position. I'm tall enough to sit quite far back but my elbow sits on the release. Totally uncomfortable. If you're short, then the center console is behind you. This is not a problem in the GS.
These details and others begin to defeat the proposition. It should be a more comfort orientated car compared to the GS with more space in the back and a softer, non sports ride. But it's actually got less comfortable seating all round and an unusable armrest. The front wheel drive creates more legroom in the back but further betrays it's non luxury roots. It corners ok, but feels like a boat. The GS is the same size but the weight distribution makes it feel smaller.
There are many important quality deficiencies / sub luxury touches. The standard stereo in the ES is a joke compared to the GS. It's actually amongst the worst standard stereos I've heard in any car.
The boot closing action is terrible and too light. Maybe designed for old people with arthritis but feels incredbily cheap. The GS again feels higher quality here.
The GS will give you external electrochromatic mirrors. Seems a small detail but when switching between the interior which is EC and the exterior which isn't, you notice it. The GS also has a smog sensor, which is one of my favourite features. Its failed to switch quickly enough only once in my GS, until that one incident I was always breathing clean air. Also the GS has a pollen / dust cleaning recirculating mode. Press a button and the air inside the car will be automatically cleaned for about 3 minutes. In the Lexus line up, I believe only the LS and maybe LX also has this.
The steering wheel on the ES has terrible cheap feeling buttons. Definitely not luxury. The GS center console with speed dials for bluetooth is a big advantage, much quicker than voice recognition. The voice recognition on the ES seems to be better on the ES though.
The engine is a big contradiction too. The GS has torque lower down, the ES much higher up. You therefore have to push the ES much more when you want to accelerate which detracts from the luxury serenity it's supposed to give you. There's also hesitation when kicking down which almost got me in trouble once when the car just didn't respond as quickly as I'm used to in the GS.
There are though a few convenience places where the ES wins. Integrated coat hooks that retract. They feel well made and add the right luxury touch. The GS doesn't have this (although maybe added to the 2008?). The sun visors on the ES are notably more solid while the GS ones feel a bit lightweight. With a direct comparison it's even more stark a feeling. The overhead sunglasses compartment on the GS is very plasticy and has a poor action. The ES is stil plastic but thicker, better put together and has a better action.
The ES interior lighting is much brighter and therefore much more useful, as are the puddle lights. With all of the above, it seems that they took some GS shortcomings and made a concious effort to not repeat them on the ES. Also if boot space is important than the ES wins by far.
So yes there are a few things that the ES does better. But overall, these advantages are minor compared to the more important things the ES does badly and that the GS does well, at least for me. Much better engine with torque lower down is so much better on the highway, more confidence on cornering, useable center armrest, much better standard stereo, enough rear room when I need it.
Indeed, although I haven't driven the IS, I'd say that unless room was really important, the IS would be far better than the ES.
What else do you get for your extra on the GS, at least in California? Cornering headlights, center lcd console even with non nav, smog sensor, automatic air cleaning, EC outside mirrors, rear sunshade, rain sensing wipers.
If they swapped out the small number of parts of the GS interior eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment that feel like a Toyota, then the GS would move from 80% luxury to nearly 100% quite easily.
The ES on the other hand is best described as imitation luxury. A cars whose basics are not luxury with luxury added on top, sometimes without thought and poorly executed. The armrest alone is a serious flaw - in the wrong position with a plastic button on it's surface.
So if you're considering the ES vs GS, I suggest you look very hard since for me the extra is definitely worth it. The ES is cheaper for a reason. The ES Lexus novelty wears off after a while and you're left with things that shouldn't be wrong in a luxury car. You may as well have purchased a Camry or Accord to have provided about the same service for thousands less without wood trim.
09-11-07, 07:54 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
If anybody's interested in my impressions of the 2007 GS vs the 2007 ES having had time with both.
I know that they are 2 different cars for different buyers, but with the big price difference yet seemingly same engine size and interior space, many wonder why the price difference, so they are comparable in that sense and many people have been choosing between the two.
In summary, the ES is clearly entry level luxury more concerned with the appearance of luxury but doesn't quite deliver it in the overall experience. I'd say that it's imitation luxury rather than the real thing.
The GS exceeds the ES on many many points and can in my opinion be classed within the luxury segment, although it could still do better on some points, mainly to do with having more Lexus quality throughout the cabin eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment, rather than these things feeling like a Toyota.
The ES though does not do enough to get away from it's Camry roots. Externally it looks nicer than a Camry and nicer than a GS (in my opinion), but from a distance you can actually mistake it for a Camry. Although inside the first impression you get is Lexus, the impression after a while is that it's a Toyota / Lexus hybrid. It's soul is a Toyota, whereas the GS is a Lexus with some Toyota parts that spoil it a little bit but do not do enough to alter the fact that it's a Lexus.
Indeed, I'd say that the previous generation ES felt more of a solid car than this one. The latest ES feels lighter and therefore a bit cheaper and even more like a Camry.
Interior as well as exterior design wise, it looks lovely. But the everyday details let it down, unlike the GS. You really need the under leg booster extension since the driver's seats is too short. The same is true in the back but you don't have that option. It's an ample cabin so it should be comfortable for adults in the back and that's what it's designed for, but with short seats it defeats the purpose.
The front armrest is totally in the wrong position. I'm tall enough to sit quite far back but my elbow sits on the release. Totally uncomfortable. If you're short, then the center console is behind you. This is not a problem in the GS.
These details and others begin to defeat the proposition. It should be a more comfort orientated car compared to the GS with more space in the back and a softer, non sports ride. But it's actually got less comfortable seating all round and an unusable armrest. The front wheel drive creates more legroom in the back but further betrays it's non luxury roots. It corners ok, but feels like a boat. The GS is the same size but the weight distribution makes it feel smaller.
There are many important quality deficiencies / sub luxury touches. The standard stereo in the ES is a joke compared to the GS. It's actually amongst the worst standard stereos I've heard in any car.
The boot closing action is terrible and too light. Maybe designed for old people with arthritis but feels incredbily cheap. The GS again feels higher quality here.
The GS will give you external electrochromatic mirrors. Seems a small detail but when switching between the interior which is EC and the exterior which isn't, you notice it. The GS also has a smog sensor, which is one of my favourite features. Its failed to switch quickly enough only once in my GS, until that one incident I was always breathing clean air. Also the GS has a pollen / dust cleaning recirculating mode. Press a button and the air inside the car will be automatically cleaned for about 3 minutes. In the Lexus line up, I believe only the LS and maybe LX also has this.
The steering wheel on the ES has terrible cheap feeling buttons. Definitely not luxury. The GS center console with speed dials for bluetooth is a big advantage, much quicker than voice recognition. The voice recognition on the ES seems to be better on the ES though.
The engine is a big contradiction too. The GS has torque lower down, the ES much higher up. You therefore have to push the ES much more when you want to accelerate which detracts from the luxury serenity it's supposed to give you. There's also hesitation when kicking down which almost got me in trouble once when the car just didn't respond as quickly as I'm used to in the GS.
There are though a few convenience places where the ES wins. Integrated coat hooks that retract. They feel well made and add the right luxury touch. The GS doesn't have this (although maybe added to the 2008?). The sun visors on the ES are notably more solid while the GS ones feel a bit lightweight. With a direct comparison it's even more stark a feeling. The overhead sunglasses compartment on the GS is very plasticy and has a poor action. The ES is stil plastic but thicker, better put together and has a better action.
The ES interior lighting is much brighter and therefore much more useful, as are the puddle lights. With all of the above, it seems that they took some GS shortcomings and made a concious effort to not repeat them on the ES. Also if boot space is important than the ES wins by far.
So yes there are a few things that the ES does better. But overall, these advantages are minor compared to the more important things the ES does badly and that the GS does well, at least for me. Much better engine with torque lower down is so much better on the highway, more confidence on cornering, useable center armrest, much better standard stereo, enough rear room when I need it.
Indeed, although I haven't driven the IS, I'd say that unless room was really important, the IS would be far better than the ES.
What else do you get for your extra on the GS, at least in California? Cornering headlights, center lcd console even with non nav, smog sensor, automatic air cleaning, EC outside mirrors, rear sunshade, rain sensing wipers.
If they swapped out the small number of parts of the GS interior eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment that feel like a Toyota, then the GS would move from 80% luxury to nearly 100% quite easily.
The ES on the other hand is best described as imitation luxury. A cars whose basics are not luxury with luxury added on top, sometimes without thought and poorly executed. The armrest alone is a serious flaw - in the wrong position with a plastic button on it's surface.
So if you're considering the ES vs GS, I suggest you look very hard since for me the extra is definitely worth it. The ES is cheaper for a reason. The ES Lexus novelty wears off after a while and you're left with things that shouldn't be wrong in a luxury car. You may as well have purchased a Camry or Accord to have provided about the same service for thousands less without wood trim.
I know that they are 2 different cars for different buyers, but with the big price difference yet seemingly same engine size and interior space, many wonder why the price difference, so they are comparable in that sense and many people have been choosing between the two.
In summary, the ES is clearly entry level luxury more concerned with the appearance of luxury but doesn't quite deliver it in the overall experience. I'd say that it's imitation luxury rather than the real thing.
The GS exceeds the ES on many many points and can in my opinion be classed within the luxury segment, although it could still do better on some points, mainly to do with having more Lexus quality throughout the cabin eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment, rather than these things feeling like a Toyota.
The ES though does not do enough to get away from it's Camry roots. Externally it looks nicer than a Camry and nicer than a GS (in my opinion), but from a distance you can actually mistake it for a Camry. Although inside the first impression you get is Lexus, the impression after a while is that it's a Toyota / Lexus hybrid. It's soul is a Toyota, whereas the GS is a Lexus with some Toyota parts that spoil it a little bit but do not do enough to alter the fact that it's a Lexus.
Indeed, I'd say that the previous generation ES felt more of a solid car than this one. The latest ES feels lighter and therefore a bit cheaper and even more like a Camry.
Interior as well as exterior design wise, it looks lovely. But the everyday details let it down, unlike the GS. You really need the under leg booster extension since the driver's seats is too short. The same is true in the back but you don't have that option. It's an ample cabin so it should be comfortable for adults in the back and that's what it's designed for, but with short seats it defeats the purpose.
The front armrest is totally in the wrong position. I'm tall enough to sit quite far back but my elbow sits on the release. Totally uncomfortable. If you're short, then the center console is behind you. This is not a problem in the GS.
These details and others begin to defeat the proposition. It should be a more comfort orientated car compared to the GS with more space in the back and a softer, non sports ride. But it's actually got less comfortable seating all round and an unusable armrest. The front wheel drive creates more legroom in the back but further betrays it's non luxury roots. It corners ok, but feels like a boat. The GS is the same size but the weight distribution makes it feel smaller.
There are many important quality deficiencies / sub luxury touches. The standard stereo in the ES is a joke compared to the GS. It's actually amongst the worst standard stereos I've heard in any car.
The boot closing action is terrible and too light. Maybe designed for old people with arthritis but feels incredbily cheap. The GS again feels higher quality here.
The GS will give you external electrochromatic mirrors. Seems a small detail but when switching between the interior which is EC and the exterior which isn't, you notice it. The GS also has a smog sensor, which is one of my favourite features. Its failed to switch quickly enough only once in my GS, until that one incident I was always breathing clean air. Also the GS has a pollen / dust cleaning recirculating mode. Press a button and the air inside the car will be automatically cleaned for about 3 minutes. In the Lexus line up, I believe only the LS and maybe LX also has this.
The steering wheel on the ES has terrible cheap feeling buttons. Definitely not luxury. The GS center console with speed dials for bluetooth is a big advantage, much quicker than voice recognition. The voice recognition on the ES seems to be better on the ES though.
The engine is a big contradiction too. The GS has torque lower down, the ES much higher up. You therefore have to push the ES much more when you want to accelerate which detracts from the luxury serenity it's supposed to give you. There's also hesitation when kicking down which almost got me in trouble once when the car just didn't respond as quickly as I'm used to in the GS.
There are though a few convenience places where the ES wins. Integrated coat hooks that retract. They feel well made and add the right luxury touch. The GS doesn't have this (although maybe added to the 2008?). The sun visors on the ES are notably more solid while the GS ones feel a bit lightweight. With a direct comparison it's even more stark a feeling. The overhead sunglasses compartment on the GS is very plasticy and has a poor action. The ES is stil plastic but thicker, better put together and has a better action.
The ES interior lighting is much brighter and therefore much more useful, as are the puddle lights. With all of the above, it seems that they took some GS shortcomings and made a concious effort to not repeat them on the ES. Also if boot space is important than the ES wins by far.
So yes there are a few things that the ES does better. But overall, these advantages are minor compared to the more important things the ES does badly and that the GS does well, at least for me. Much better engine with torque lower down is so much better on the highway, more confidence on cornering, useable center armrest, much better standard stereo, enough rear room when I need it.
Indeed, although I haven't driven the IS, I'd say that unless room was really important, the IS would be far better than the ES.
What else do you get for your extra on the GS, at least in California? Cornering headlights, center lcd console even with non nav, smog sensor, automatic air cleaning, EC outside mirrors, rear sunshade, rain sensing wipers.
If they swapped out the small number of parts of the GS interior eg sun visor, sunglasses compartment that feel like a Toyota, then the GS would move from 80% luxury to nearly 100% quite easily.
The ES on the other hand is best described as imitation luxury. A cars whose basics are not luxury with luxury added on top, sometimes without thought and poorly executed. The armrest alone is a serious flaw - in the wrong position with a plastic button on it's surface.
So if you're considering the ES vs GS, I suggest you look very hard since for me the extra is definitely worth it. The ES is cheaper for a reason. The ES Lexus novelty wears off after a while and you're left with things that shouldn't be wrong in a luxury car. You may as well have purchased a Camry or Accord to have provided about the same service for thousands less without wood trim.
09-11-07, 10:51 PM
#3
If you do a search, you'll see i did a compairson between these two cars too. Different things listed. The only thing that I really liked over the GS is the seat. It actually had way more butt cushin(sp) than my GS. I'll try and see if I can find my post.
09-11-07, 10:54 PM
#4
Well they have my car and this time they gave me a '07 ES350 loaner. I swear, half the things I found wrong with my car (GS350) is fixed in this car.
1) I don't get a back ache in the drivers seat. It has the same features as my GS (sheesh, I would've hope we have more features on the gs) BUT they made the seat bottom with more foam. Its actually comfortable.
2) The radio (nonML) is better than my ML in picking up stations. Then again I have mine in the shop for this complaint.
3) Interior lights are LED too. Awe, I thought it was a GS only thing.
4) Steering wheel is streamlined. Instead of having open buttons, its like they shrink wrapped rubber around the whole button area so there is no openings around the buttons.
5) The rear seats have cup holders built in the center armrest. The GS is there too, but it slides out from the top.
6) If you have booster seats, the seatbelt is easier to put on, Its they moved the buckle an inch farther from the door. So you can put on the seatbelt easier now, as the buckle isn't under the booster seat.
7) The gas mileage is better, in the ONE day I had it, it says I've gotten 23mpg. My driving the GS the same way would say about 18-19mpg. (I'm aware this has way less HP, just stating if gas mileage is a concern..)
8) The Manumatic is the same sludgebox as the one in the GS, and theres nothing to turn off or a sport setting.
9) This loaner has just under4k. And I noticed its quiet. I don't hear any creaking sounds from the dash. Now I'm beginning to think I do have a creaking problem. Not the same as others. Most people say it makes the sound near the glass or the pillars. I swear as I hit bumps, it comes from the center dash area. as a creaking sound like two plastic parts rubbing.
10) The license plate has LED lights. So does the GS. I'm just mentioning this cuz I like that feature.
11) While I wasn't listening that hard, I swear, there is no ticking sound from the engine while idling. If you ever left your window open on the GS while idling in a drive thru, you'll know the loud sound I'm talking about.
12) The center armrest needs to be a bit more forward for your arm. But they made it smart. If you opened it, theres a lever you move at the front that pulls the cover closed. Nice.
13) The handle to get in and out of the car is articulated. Really nice. it tucks away nicly.
What makes the GS better?
1) MY ES350 didn't have ML or reverse camera or parking sensors,HIDs. I miss those. (This is not a fault to the ES. Mine just didn't have those options)
2) When you step on the gas, the car moves at a slower pace. You can tell. Going up a hill, it downshifts all the way to move. While the GS downshifts, its moves like a GT car should.
3) The fit and finish on the ES feels lower. More rubber around the dash, less leather.
4) No LED rear lights.
5) It has the little fans in the seat. I think it works worse than that in the GS. I'm guessing its because of the more foam in the seat.
1) I don't get a back ache in the drivers seat. It has the same features as my GS (sheesh, I would've hope we have more features on the gs) BUT they made the seat bottom with more foam. Its actually comfortable.
2) The radio (nonML) is better than my ML in picking up stations. Then again I have mine in the shop for this complaint.
3) Interior lights are LED too. Awe, I thought it was a GS only thing.
4) Steering wheel is streamlined. Instead of having open buttons, its like they shrink wrapped rubber around the whole button area so there is no openings around the buttons.
5) The rear seats have cup holders built in the center armrest. The GS is there too, but it slides out from the top.
6) If you have booster seats, the seatbelt is easier to put on, Its they moved the buckle an inch farther from the door. So you can put on the seatbelt easier now, as the buckle isn't under the booster seat.
7) The gas mileage is better, in the ONE day I had it, it says I've gotten 23mpg. My driving the GS the same way would say about 18-19mpg. (I'm aware this has way less HP, just stating if gas mileage is a concern..)
8) The Manumatic is the same sludgebox as the one in the GS, and theres nothing to turn off or a sport setting.
9) This loaner has just under4k. And I noticed its quiet. I don't hear any creaking sounds from the dash. Now I'm beginning to think I do have a creaking problem. Not the same as others. Most people say it makes the sound near the glass or the pillars. I swear as I hit bumps, it comes from the center dash area. as a creaking sound like two plastic parts rubbing.
10) The license plate has LED lights. So does the GS. I'm just mentioning this cuz I like that feature.
11) While I wasn't listening that hard, I swear, there is no ticking sound from the engine while idling. If you ever left your window open on the GS while idling in a drive thru, you'll know the loud sound I'm talking about.
12) The center armrest needs to be a bit more forward for your arm. But they made it smart. If you opened it, theres a lever you move at the front that pulls the cover closed. Nice.
13) The handle to get in and out of the car is articulated. Really nice. it tucks away nicly.
What makes the GS better?
1) MY ES350 didn't have ML or reverse camera or parking sensors,HIDs. I miss those. (This is not a fault to the ES. Mine just didn't have those options)
2) When you step on the gas, the car moves at a slower pace. You can tell. Going up a hill, it downshifts all the way to move. While the GS downshifts, its moves like a GT car should.
3) The fit and finish on the ES feels lower. More rubber around the dash, less leather.
4) No LED rear lights.
5) It has the little fans in the seat. I think it works worse than that in the GS. I'm guessing its because of the more foam in the seat.
09-12-07, 08:17 PM
#5
Nice observations and comparison, both of you. My two points for choosing the GS over the ES:
1. 350AWD
2. Style of the GS
I liked the ES350 very much when it first came out and though about getting it, but then I noticed that at times, I couldn't tell the ES from the previous generation Camry (front end, back is distinguised). I need a $40K+ car to be sort of "unique" if not too vanilla.
I live in NE, so having a RX, I know the benefits of AWD.
1. 350AWD
2. Style of the GS
I liked the ES350 very much when it first came out and though about getting it, but then I noticed that at times, I couldn't tell the ES from the previous generation Camry (front end, back is distinguised). I need a $40K+ car to be sort of "unique" if not too vanilla.
I live in NE, so having a RX, I know the benefits of AWD.
09-13-07, 07:30 AM
#6
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Good comparison. When buying our Lexus we choose the ES350 because the price difference was too much more for the GS350 considering the upgrades and/or differences in the GS350. Also, we were not that impresed with the slightly increased HP in the GS350. OTOH, both are great cars! It's just a personal choice.
09-13-07, 07:52 AM
#7
Thats a very in-depth write up and really brings into consideration the price difference in ES and GS. I have not been in a suitable financial situation to be testing out brand new Lexus, but I've always had quite a high expectation for the brand. Hopefully my next purchase won't be a disappointment.
When you mention the "cheap feeling buttons" on the steering wheel of ES, do you mean flimsy and loose buttons with excessive space between the recess and the button? That has always been one of my fears of interior design in a vehicle. If they can't make a button properly, what can they do correctly?
When you mention the "cheap feeling buttons" on the steering wheel of ES, do you mean flimsy and loose buttons with excessive space between the recess and the button? That has always been one of my fears of interior design in a vehicle. If they can't make a button properly, what can they do correctly?
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09-15-07, 08:25 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Great write-up, and oh so true (speaking from an experience of a former ES350 driver for 4 month with a buyback after two failed trannies that moved me into GS350AWD 
)
I just want to add one more thing: do the search for problems on GS forum versus ES forum. 'Nough said...
)I just want to add one more thing: do the search for problems on GS forum versus ES forum. 'Nough said...
09-16-07, 06:49 PM
#13
Driver School Candidate
Agreed. This thread has puzzled me, because I didn't/don't understand why we're comparing a FWD car with a RWD car. They clearly appeal to two different markets and driving preferences.
09-16-07, 07:08 PM
#14
Lexus Champion
I agree. You beat me to the punch. Should be comparing the GS to other similar/competing cars (the LS?), if it hasn't been done already.
09-16-07, 10:41 PM
#15
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I dont know why some people always want to imply that they are smarter than others. It reminds me of kindergarden kids. This is a old news saying that ES is noth worth the money because it is similar to camry. Driving a loaner car for couple of hours doesnt make you an expert about the car. unlike you, I own both ES and camry. It is true that they have both the same engine and transmission but ES has softer ride, less cabin noise (even less than previous ES models), better qality materials and all the bells and whistles that your GS has ( I have UL model which I bought for 40k). Can you tell me except for the different feel ride and accelaration what else GS has that is worth 10K more than my car. I gaurantee you none (go to lexus.com and compare). It has same leather, mark levinson, same carpet and dash materials. These are things that we see, I am sure they share a lot of components that are not visible to our eyes.To me 10k more is not worth couple of more HP, besides the fact that I dont like sports car at this age. If I ever wanted to drive a luxury sports car I would drive one that comes with a stick shift not automatic, and If I want a pick up a brand I will go with BMW. It is a brand that I am not a big fan of. But the fact is, they build true sports car unlike japanese made imitatation. So gentlemen, If you like sports car and want to spend 50,60, 70 or 80k for a car because you can afford it, good for you but please dont make ignorant comments or imply that people who buy ES or bought it for last 17 -18 years are stupid. People have differnent needs and look at their pockets before making a decision. I am sure some of you would dream driving a porsche 911 or BMW-6series or mercedes s55, but all you could afford was a GS.