beachfront

At Fry's today and while looking for CD's I see a Denon 5.1 DVD Audio Sampler CD used to set up surround systems.

So I grab it and there is a speaker calibration section which provides noise to the front Left, Center, Front Right, Rear Left, Rear Right and Sub.

I expected the Rear Left and Rear Right to come from the speakers behind me but they actually were the same as the Front Left and Front Right.

Is this correct and if so how is this surround?

Was I supposed to set up the ML system because all I have ever done is pop in CD's and Movies...

N

2thfixr

Were you in surround mode? For CD's you have to manually switch the system by going into the AUDIO menu.

beachfront

My bad...

It was a DVD Audio CD so it was in surround mode.

Is there any setup involved with ML?

DrexLex

Usually, DVD-A discs will duplicate the program in the "DVD-Video Zone" so that the discs can play on DVD-V players, too. These steps might get you to them from the disc nav screen:

1) Touch the upper right hand button, "page 2". This will bring you to the second screen.

2) Touch the lower left button on the second screen "search". This will bring you to the third screen.

3) Press the "+" button once to advance to group 2 of the disc.

4) Press "enter."

5) You should now be on screen 1 again. View the format in the box that is top row, second from the left to see what the format is...ex. Dolby Digital 3/2.1, DTS 3/2 etc. Play any of the 5.1 tracks.

You were getting only a stereo signal from the DVD-A zone (that's all the ML unit supports), and even then, surround decoding it is meaningless wrt channel calibration. But actually, there's nothing to calibrate--it's all been covered by the system designers. All you need to do is tweak the scant few controls that are offered to get the best effect in your opinion.

beachfront

DrexLex.

Thanks for the info !!

So basically there are 2 formats on some DVD-A's and you need to find the right one if it does not sound right?


I was listening to the music in "PPCM ML Surround". While I do not have a clue what that means, when I went to group 2 as you suggested it went to "DOlby Digital ML Surround" which was what I was looking for.

Sounds awesome now!

LAST ITEM:
How often do I have to do the Group 2 thing?
DO I have to check on EVERY CD / DVD/ DVDA that I pop in?

Thanks-

DrexLex

Yes, there are two formats on most DVD-A discs. DVD-A is a close cousin to DVD-V, but was introduced after DVD-V, so it was designed to allow for backwards compatibility with the installed base of DVD-V players. You don't get all the benefits of DVD-A's advanced audio format, but at least you can enjoy the program. The exact degree of this compatible support is up to the content maker to decide. It is not required, but most discs do offer it.

PPCM means Packed PCM, It is another way of saying the source was losslessly compressed with MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing). This is needed to cram the 6-ch 96/24 PCM signals down to fit into the data rate of the disc format. While this would be the best way to listen to 2-ch sources (with or without the ML Surround mode turned on), the ML system does not support access to multichannel PCM. So if you want to hear discrete 5.1 from DVD-A, you have to find your way through to the Group 2 audio. This is only an issue for DVD-A discs. It will not happen for DVD-V. But as you may already know from playing DVDs at home, in a minority of cases there are discs with 5.1 and 2-ch audio, and you have to manually select the 5.1 from a menu.

Once you have a 5.1 Dolby or DTS track playing, you have the option to activate ML Surround or to turn it off. In either case you will hear the 5.1 surround, but ML mode activates some additional processing, where Logic7 extracts the center and surround info from the L/R channels, just like it does from regular stereo content. It actually helps the soundfield work better in a car, IMHO. On top of that, Harman tuned the EQ much better in ML Surround mode then the non-ML mode (I presume deliberately) so as to make the choice for ML more obvious.

beachfront

Drex-

Thanks for the explanation.

Makes total sense and now I realized I have been listening to all my DVD-A's in PPCM mode. There is a HUGE difference regarding the search for Group 2.

I would have never figured this %$#& out, so again I appreciate the help.

N

SilverSprt

I tried these steps with both my DVD-A discs. For step 3 where you're suppose to press the "+" button, I couldn't locate this button. After clicking the search button, the screen that showed was a keypad that lets you choose a specific chapter, but no "+" button. Is this step only available on certain DVD-A's? When my DVD-As play, the format boxes show PPCM 48khz etc..not Dolby Digital. I do see it change to "Dolby Digital" when I insert a DVD-V disc.

DrexLex

Beachfront and I both have 2006 GS/ML, so maybe there is some difference in how it works for 2007? Anyone played DVD-As in their 2007? Could you reach the 5.1 discrete tracks?