From USA Today : Lexus GS falls short of Infiniti M (merged threads)
03-25-05, 05:55 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by enigma354
I laud Toyota's efficiency drives, which can be expected to increase under its new CEO (aka fewer door handle styles, etc.), but I think sharing engines, despite the quality of the chosen engine in mind, is too drastic a measure to implement across the board at Lexus and to a lesser extent at Toyota.
I would prefer that Lexus work on designing and marketing a diverse array of products, including engine choices.
BTW, Nissan is perhaps the largest Japanese car manufacturer to have a significant foreign ownership stake...Renault took 37% in 1999, then increased it to 45% in 2002...it's thanks to ex-Renault executive 'Le Cost Cutter' Carlos Gosen that Nissan could turn it around.
And Renault itself is 45% owned by the French govt.
I would prefer that Lexus work on designing and marketing a diverse array of products, including engine choices.
BTW, Nissan is perhaps the largest Japanese car manufacturer to have a significant foreign ownership stake...Renault took 37% in 1999, then increased it to 45% in 2002...it's thanks to ex-Renault executive 'Le Cost Cutter' Carlos Gosen that Nissan could turn it around.
And Renault itself is 45% owned by the French govt.
Before Ghosen, they had 24 platforms. 1 made money
03-25-05, 06:06 PM
#62
Don't count Lexus out yet...IMO with the GS350 and GS450h, the performance aspects of Lexus are definitely improving.
Infiniti may be up-and-coming, and in review-land may have even stolen some of the GS' thunder, but in order to reach the top their interior quality needs improving (in particular, among other things). It's true that their past is riddled with failures, but Infiniti likely will grow into a strong player with its current lineup...and move from 3rd-tier (in some aspects) to 2nd-tier (which it already is in many) and to top-tier (possibly).
Infiniti may be up-and-coming, and in review-land may have even stolen some of the GS' thunder, but in order to reach the top their interior quality needs improving (in particular, among other things). It's true that their past is riddled with failures, but Infiniti likely will grow into a strong player with its current lineup...and move from 3rd-tier (in some aspects) to 2nd-tier (which it already is in many) and to top-tier (possibly).
03-25-05, 06:17 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Good point. That is what Edmunds did. They did not base their judgement on driving the cars like Mario Andretti to Neiman-Marcus. They based it on what they thought is overall the best car for the money, and simply could not see themselves paying 50k for the Rl or M.
I must've missed that part of the review when I read through it (quote in bold).
Can you point me a link to the Edmund's review again?
03-25-05, 06:27 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by psteng19
[/b]
I must've missed that part of the review when I read through it (quote in bold).
Can you point me a link to the Edmund's review again?
I must've missed that part of the review when I read through it (quote in bold).
Can you point me a link to the Edmund's review again?
In other words, the GS is perfect if you're willing to forego the last 10 percent of the performance envelope. In years past that 10 percent is all I cared about, but at my advanced age that other 90 percent is looking more important all the time.
Here's your winner. This is the car your $50 grand should be spent on. Well, your $60 grand.
The difference is that the Lexus just feels better than the Infiniti. The Lexus feels special. Although not as powerful, its engine is smoother and more refined, its interior is quieter and more elegant, and its suspension tuned more precisely. Driving the Lexus makes you feel like your money has been spent on the very best, and the car will reward you for years to come.
This is quite a car. It's the best sport sedan from Japan in its price range. It may even be the best sedan in its class. Nice job, Lexus.
You get the point
03-25-05, 06:35 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Still, on paper, it's the Lexus that comes out on top. Its combination of performance, luxury and astonishing attention to detail cannot be ignored. It's a car worthy of its price premium over the others, and it's a car anyone would be proud to own
In other words, the GS is perfect if you're willing to forego the last 10 percent of the performance envelope. In years past that 10 percent is all I cared about, but at my advanced age that other 90 percent is looking more important all the time.
Here's your winner. This is the car your $50 grand should be spent on. Well, your $60 grand.
The difference is that the Lexus just feels better than the Infiniti. The Lexus feels special. Although not as powerful, its engine is smoother and more refined, its interior is quieter and more elegant, and its suspension tuned more precisely. Driving the Lexus makes you feel like your money has been spent on the very best, and the car will reward you for years to come.
This is quite a car. It's the best sport sedan from Japan in its price range. It may even be the best sedan in its class. Nice job, Lexus.
You get the point
In other words, the GS is perfect if you're willing to forego the last 10 percent of the performance envelope. In years past that 10 percent is all I cared about, but at my advanced age that other 90 percent is looking more important all the time.
Here's your winner. This is the car your $50 grand should be spent on. Well, your $60 grand.
The difference is that the Lexus just feels better than the Infiniti. The Lexus feels special. Although not as powerful, its engine is smoother and more refined, its interior is quieter and more elegant, and its suspension tuned more precisely. Driving the Lexus makes you feel like your money has been spent on the very best, and the car will reward you for years to come.
This is quite a car. It's the best sport sedan from Japan in its price range. It may even be the best sedan in its class. Nice job, Lexus.
You get the point
But you did conveniently leave out this part.
"But the Acura RL has run a very close second, very close, and the Infiniti M45 Sport a close third."
That there pretty much contradicts with what you said.
For someone who is trying hard to not come off as biased, you certainly aren't doing such a good job
03-25-05, 06:43 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by psteng19
I still don't see the part where it says "could not see themselves paying 50k for the Rl or M."
But you did conveniently leave out this part.
"But the Acura RL has run a very close second, very close, and the Infiniti M45 Sport a close third."
That there pretty much contradicts with what you said.
For someone who is trying hard to not come off as biased, you certainly aren't doing such a good job
But you did conveniently leave out this part.
"But the Acura RL has run a very close second, very close, and the Infiniti M45 Sport a close third."
That there pretty much contradicts with what you said.
For someone who is trying hard to not come off as biased, you certainly aren't doing such a good job
03-25-05, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
If I was going to argue FOR the RL or M, well, I think I would have included that part. And in the Edmunds thread we had, I believe I said I can agree with the GS 1st but was shocked the RL was 2nd, ahead the M45 sport. Of course I am biased some but I know my facts about the other 2 car makers as well as Lexus.
That's the end of my time in this thread
03-25-05, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by psteng19
Honestly, I'll stop bickering but I just don't think it was Edmund's intention to say that they don't think the RL or M deserves their (or anyone elses) $50k the way you quoted them.
That's the end of my time in this thread
That's the end of my time in this thread
03-25-05, 07:10 PM
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Hmm, why do people get so bothered over such comparisons/reviews anyway? Buying a car is a very personal thing like decorating a home, music genre one listens, type of food one likes etc. which is based on his/her's own biases/opinions/needs/experiences/requirements/personality.
Here in Singapore, I am not able to test the M because the brand is just not represented here. We chose the new GS300 RWD (glacier frost/ash) because of the great service and support rendered on our previous Gen 2 GSes. Also, price wise compared to its rivals E, 5, A6 and S, it offered the most bang for buck and features for its asking price. Another consideration is the renowned reliability of Lexi that is so far unmatched by other brands especially in our tropical climate. To me, horsepower is not important since Singapore is only 640 square km but the quality/suppleness of the ride.
Here in Singapore, I am not able to test the M because the brand is just not represented here. We chose the new GS300 RWD (glacier frost/ash) because of the great service and support rendered on our previous Gen 2 GSes. Also, price wise compared to its rivals E, 5, A6 and S, it offered the most bang for buck and features for its asking price. Another consideration is the renowned reliability of Lexi that is so far unmatched by other brands especially in our tropical climate. To me, horsepower is not important since Singapore is only 640 square km but the quality/suppleness of the ride.
03-25-05, 07:11 PM
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Honestly speaking, i dotn give a rats a$$ what a review guy is saying or who says what, even if its a reputable car magazine. The hell - what do they know about luxury or comfort? **** - its a subjective thing! They are giving rating on some subjective things - and what are they to know? Its your money - you go buy what you please and what makes sense to you. I just read car magazines but dont base any of my decision on it. The M is thought to have been the best value right now - for performance and what not....i personally feel that if it was cheaper than it is right now - id still not get it. Why? Because i know spendniong 50K for a fully loaded GS is worth more to me...becasue I feel the quality and appeal of the design and beauty is unparallel to anything else...thats my feeling. Why should i care what a magazine says? Afer all - its a guy that drives the dam thign and makes his own arguments for whetehr he likes it or not. Hell - anyone of us could od that too. lol
Guys..im tno tryign to sound pissy - just givign u my two cents.
I feel that even though the performance of the GS is less than the M, Id still buy it. The extra 4-5K im spending and getting an equally comparable car but with less horsepower still makes sense to me because I know i can pay for the beauty and appeal it gives. the physical attractiont he car has..i can live with it being 40 horses less. 245 horsepower is not underpwoered. So what if someone else feels that or soem car magazine tells u that? What is good or bad to u is not necessarily tru for all parties. I think car magazines are a good source of information, but i mean - get real..its not like im goign to make a 50K decision becasue they say The RL is 1st or the Gs is last or vice versa. It doesnt matetr - thats their take on it. So what?
My preference is simple..I want a sporty luxury sedan crafted exquistiely appealing with style and beauty and superior refinement twisted aggresively well with its performance. The onyl car that gives me that is the GS. It has the interior refinement like a palace. the agresiveness and boldness of a fierce animal. The look and design of sporty aggression. The quality and crafstsmanship in its detailing and the sport luxury look it exemplifies ina nd out is what i loev about it that i have not seen on ANY other car. (with ALL these thigns workign simultaeously)...the beamer 5 series is a shietty lookign car from inside...the uotside is awesome. but like i said - the GS is the overall package. For me, id rather pay 4 thousand more, get 40 horses less but really feel satisfied driving somethign becasue IIIIIIIIIIIII like it. Not becasue soemoen else says or claims is the best car or not.
The GS is the best car from my view becasue of the purpose it serves me altogether that i mentioned above. If the GS was ranked last in everything, but if this was the exacct car they were talking about....meaning this was the actual vehicle they ranked last (if they did)....id still buy it becasue it has everythign id want in a luxury sport sedan - that suits my taste and money.
Guys..im tno tryign to sound pissy - just givign u my two cents.
I feel that even though the performance of the GS is less than the M, Id still buy it. The extra 4-5K im spending and getting an equally comparable car but with less horsepower still makes sense to me because I know i can pay for the beauty and appeal it gives. the physical attractiont he car has..i can live with it being 40 horses less. 245 horsepower is not underpwoered. So what if someone else feels that or soem car magazine tells u that? What is good or bad to u is not necessarily tru for all parties. I think car magazines are a good source of information, but i mean - get real..its not like im goign to make a 50K decision becasue they say The RL is 1st or the Gs is last or vice versa. It doesnt matetr - thats their take on it. So what?
My preference is simple..I want a sporty luxury sedan crafted exquistiely appealing with style and beauty and superior refinement twisted aggresively well with its performance. The onyl car that gives me that is the GS. It has the interior refinement like a palace. the agresiveness and boldness of a fierce animal. The look and design of sporty aggression. The quality and crafstsmanship in its detailing and the sport luxury look it exemplifies ina nd out is what i loev about it that i have not seen on ANY other car. (with ALL these thigns workign simultaeously)...the beamer 5 series is a shietty lookign car from inside...the uotside is awesome. but like i said - the GS is the overall package. For me, id rather pay 4 thousand more, get 40 horses less but really feel satisfied driving somethign becasue IIIIIIIIIIIII like it. Not becasue soemoen else says or claims is the best car or not.
The GS is the best car from my view becasue of the purpose it serves me altogether that i mentioned above. If the GS was ranked last in everything, but if this was the exacct car they were talking about....meaning this was the actual vehicle they ranked last (if they did)....id still buy it becasue it has everythign id want in a luxury sport sedan - that suits my taste and money.
03-25-05, 09:30 PM
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Honestly speaking, i dont give a rats a$$ what a review guy is saying or who says what, even if its a reputable car magazine. The hell - what do they know about luxury or comfort? **** - its a subjective thing! They are giving rating on some subjective things - and what are they to know? Its your money - you go buy what you please and what makes sense to you.
my 2cents.....
I don't understand ppl who think that going from 0-60 in cpl of seconds less than the other car, going about 220mph to pick up milk from 7-11 or do the slalom course when going to pick up jimmy from the school is just what a LUXURY SPORT car should include.........u get my drift???
I rather be caught dead than paying 50K+ for an ACURA or an INFINITI....period.....This may sound childish but I have 2 lexuses. or lexei (i guess in plural
)..a 99 and a 2006 GS..Every single time when i drive these cars or tell someone that i drive a LEXUS...i highly doubt that you get the same response as you would if you said "INFINITI" ...Lexus has a name that Infinti, i agree , is getting close to, FINALLY, by making some very good vehicles. But IT IS STILL A FREAKIN INFINITI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have said this before and i'll say it again...I'll take my 245hp-V6 rwd with 13 spkr-7.1 Mark Levinson!, Touch Screen Voice activated NAV!, BACK UP CAM!, Park assist!, blue led's, luxury overflowing, exquisite, reliable, eyecatching (*cough* looking for more adjectives*cough*)car all neatly and beautifuly packaged behind the "L" emblem inside and especially outside!
I have neither driven nor want to drive a M....why???? look at the back of this car....pls excuse me while i puke....
03-25-05, 09:34 PM
#72
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"I rather be caught dead than paying 50K+ for an ACURA or an INFINITI...."
I think many MB and BMW owners feel this way about Lexus too. They feel that Lexus just doesn't have the cache, and the perception is that Lexus makes some nice comfy SUVs and reliable but boring looking sedans.
I think many MB and BMW owners feel this way about Lexus too. They feel that Lexus just doesn't have the cache, and the perception is that Lexus makes some nice comfy SUVs and reliable but boring looking sedans.
03-25-05, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Look at the facts. The GS is a brand new all new platform with an all-new V-6 and all new tranny. The M has shared V-6, borrowed platform, old tranny. Those are facts.
The Infiniti M also uses a 2nd gen FM platform, with over 60% new components.
Platform sharing and component sharing is a good thing. It allows manufacturers to achieve better QC and economies of scale.
So the GS300 should be the GS350 already!
03-25-05, 10:04 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by NYlexus
yeah...what he said.....
I have neither driven nor want to drive a M....why???? look at the back of this car....pls excuse me while i puke....
I have neither driven nor want to drive a M....why???? look at the back of this car....pls excuse me while i puke....
But I agree. The rear of the Infiniti is simply overdone. They tried too hard, and missed badly, IMO.
Like I have said before, I haven't seen a Nissan or Infiniti that I thought looked nice from every angle since the 90-96 Z. Either the headlights are too big and bulky (looking like bug-eyes, not an attractive look to my eye), or the rear-end treatment is trying way too hard to be sexy (such as the new M and the Altima).
Infiniti's are nice cars, they just haven't looked all the good over the years.
Not that the Lexus are without exterior pimples too but, the Lexus body and the Lexus interior do a better job of overcoming it's sometimes pimply face.
Last edited by KevinGS; 03-25-05 at 10:40 PM.
03-25-05, 10:08 PM
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I think many MB and BMW owners feel this way about Lexus too. They feel that Lexus just doesn't have the cache, and the perception is that Lexus makes some nice comfy SUVs and reliable but boring looking sedans.
I am sure like INFINTI owners could care less about my personal opinions i really could care less what BMW and MB buyers think of LEXUS......I could've easily bought the 530 (i actually test drove it before buying my GS)oh yeah the car had juice but the "sometimes likeable" exterior, interior and the IDRIVE just compeletly turned me off. Instead of "juice" i opted out for the WHOLE package. I knew about the M from infiniti but didnt think about it the second time..just my opinion.
