looknow12

The roads were extremely slippery this evening so I had a small chance to play. Due to traffic on the way home, there was limited but available options. I took some back roads through the woods of New York and Connecticut. The roads were covered completely with snow (about 1" compacted) with no salt or sand present on most if not all of the roads I travelled.

First off Traction:
The GS has a lot of torque at the rear wheels and despite using the Snow Mode, the vehicle does wish to spin with most opportunities. I guess that goes with the territory and it doesn't help that mine has the 18" wheels on it. Not at all good for snow traction.

The traction control systems are much more dynamic than the old GS (I had a 2000) which use to cut power dramatically and then seconds later give it back to you. When accelerating while turning or traveling uneven roads, the GS initially will try to slide the rear out either to the outside of the turn, or by using gravity on uneven roads. I've been driving on snowy roads my whole life so for the first half of the journey, I would react to the slide before the VDIM could by compensating the wheel. Later on I noticed that the VDIM wasn't more than a msec behind me and continuing to accelerate and not adjust my wheels would cause the GS to adjust the steering along with the driving wheels to keep me close to the straight and narrow. It was comforting once I got used to it. Definitely something I'd feel comfortable about if the wife was driving on her own.

Beyond Traction:
As I made my way beyond the heavier congested state roads and to the twisty mountain back roads I found myself driving faster than most drivers. Running off camber turns on these narrow roads at first caused me to use a lot of caution. The thought of spilling my new GS off of very narrow roads (most of these roads were only about 16 feet wide) and into rocks or trees was not something I was encouraging, but the amazing thing is the GS did so with no errors. Turns were made as if the vehicle was a AWD. The front end I expected to understeer and snow plow into banks did not...it came right around for me. If not an understeer, I figured at least a full vehicle slide, nope nothing. As mentioned before, the only slide out was caused momentarily by acceleration forces to which the VDIM countered nicely.

A bit of play:
I then found a parking lot. It didn't have too many cars in it, so I had a chance to do a bit of playing. The parking lot was 5 rows of parking with spaces on each side of these rows. There were paved curbs at the end of each row, so I slalomed through the parking taking hard turns at the end of each row. A vehicle would normally understeer in such situations (I wasn't gas'ng througn the turns) but the GS instead braked the correct wheel(s) and turned me hard into the turn. During this, the traction light displayed, and the beeps occurred. This reminded me more of the VSC system. When gas'ng through the turns before oversteering, the GS would brake the outside front wheel and stop such an activity again beeping with a display of the indicator reminded me. These corrections were not as suttle as my above 30mph encounters, but then again, nor were my actions and I expected this.

Braking:
The grabbiness of the 430's brakes made me feel like I'd slide every time I just tapped the breaks but not so. The brakes were very good and only rarely did the ABS interject. In some cases I'd shift down to 2nd or 1st to bring me down steep hills. I love the fact that the shift tronic system allows you to shift to first. The older GS's steering wheel shifters would only allow you to grind things down to 2nd.

All and all the GS handled the snow covered roads very well and I was comfortable and would drive again in the snow. I believe the AWD model would have helped me through the mountaneous roads particulary eliminating the fish tails though the VDIM did a great job (when I let it do so).

Is the GS supposed to display any indicators or beeping when steering, braking, and throttle corrections are made (VDIM) above 30mph?

Sandman

Great review - thanks! I was very impressed with how well this RWD car with so much power could be tamed so nicely on the snow and ice! VDIM is pretty awesome.

Rockville

That review says it all. I was waiting for someone with your snow driving experience to test the VDIM. I too felt a little sheepish about you taking the GS430 out on the rink to play with. It is difficult to let the VDIM do its job when you already have snow skills. Once you get accustomed to its nature you get more and more confident. I was able to compare an AWD GS300 and found it slower to react to skidding even though it would have the upper hand in the straights, uphills and initial standstill starts. I found I could get into trouble easier in the AWD. The VDIM makes owning a high performance RWD which is OK for snow driving. BTW threadsters only Lexus has this system.....

lexguynj

Thanks fo the review. Consider the tires also too. Does the GS430 have High Performance Summer Tires or All Seasons?

I used to have a 2001 GS430 with the 17" Rims and Summer Tires and it was scary driving in any kind of snow accumulation. Fish tailing and just trying to get started from a stop position was an ordeal. I switched over to High Performance All Season on my 17" and there was a definite improvement.

Again the best way is Snow Tires for a GS430, but who has the time to switch over rims every winter? I am not one of those people. The GS430 is still not made for snow and consider all those other crazy drivers out there, it's like target practice on your beautiful GS430.

MrAce

Just curious, did you try going up any steep inclines where there was a lot of ice or hard packed snow?

I am in CT as well and even my Audi A4 3.0 Quattro got stuck at the bottom of my driveway due to ice. I got it out by de-icing around the tires, backing out of the driveway and then builind up enough speed to carry me past the steep part that was iced over into the heaver snow where I got traction.

I do not have snow tires. I have high performance Vredestein Giugiaro tires which stink in the snow.

I am really wanting to buy the new GS 430 but am nervous about getting up my driveway in the winter with snow and ice.

I am wondering if snow tires plus the traction control system would do it.

How did you feel when you drove it? Would you take it up a snowy hill?

spwolf

you have to consider that snow tires would be awesome difference in ice conditions. Anything but snow tires under 45F will be degrading experience.So GS430 might be able to handle it - although AWD car will do acceleration better, GS430's VDIM might make experience safer, but only with winter tires...

Incendiary

What is VDIM exactly?

I thought AWD didn't help with straights... Just corners, uphills, and starts.

Incendiary

Snow tires won't help on ice, but they'll help with everything else. Didn't realize someone in CT would need this advice, but I guess people everywhere need to hear it at least once...

Rockville

Hello Incendiary, Where are you in MD? VDIM is a new stability system invented by Lexus. It smooths out the rough edges of the original VSC ( Vehicle Skid Control). In fact it is so effective that you can drive the high performance RWD GS430 with impunity in the slick conditions. Throw away any notion you previously had about RWD and Traction Control etc. when discussing VDIM. It is different. One of the features that makes it different is that it utilizes the Electronic power steering by itself. It can make subtle course corrections on its own. It can handle ice on one side of the car and dry pavement on the other in both acceleration mode and braking. This situation would usually lead to rotation of the car. The VDIM is not deterred and will keep the car going straight. VDIM is like magic happens. The discussion is now focused on tires. The tires that Looknow12 is using are 18" Run Flat All Seasons. If you were to equip the GS430 with studs it would handle ice quite easily IMO. I haven't been able to fool it yet and I've been very aggressive in fresh fallen snow which is like ball bearings to turn on. If you would like to try it please come by the dealership in Rockville if it snows this weekend. The second best test would be just cold and wet pavement say at 33 degrees. The AWD is fun to drive also and really digs in for you on the straights, uphill and a standing start. It does not help you in the corners in slippery conditions contrary to popular belief. Yesterday there was a bad wreck on the GW Parkway when a Toyota 4Runner skidded off the parkway and spun into some trees at speed. They had to cut the top off and extract the driver. It was on television and pretty gruesome to watch the rescuers dabbing the blood from the driver's face. I can tell you that if the 4Runner had been equipped with VDIM it probably would not have happened. The Lexus GS300 AWD has a 70% rear power devotion under normal conditions and can switch to 50/50 if it senses slipping at the back end. This does not solve the problem of carrying too much speed or throttle into a turn and the VSC eventually has to try to correct the oversteer or understeer but is often too late. The VDIM monitors the situation and predicts the skid and makes a smaller correction much earlier and you may not even realize that it just saved your skin. BTW it is exclusive to Lexus.

Bernie Kitts AKA Rockville

MrAce

Just moved from San Diego, CA...

looknow12

I did take it up some fairly steep inclines (perhaps 25-35% grade) on a traveled road and the GS did fine (momentum with me but through tight turns). I stopped at an intersection where there was a 15-20% grade and the GS slowly but surely made it up. I tried stopping with one wheel on my short steep driveway (one wheel meaning curb weight was not evenly distributed among the rear tires). This is an exercise I do with my GX all the time after a snow fall. The GX never faulters. Most time it never even engages the traction control as I pull up slowly. My incline from the road is easily 35%. With the GS stopped, one wheel raised on the driveway, I tried accelerating, the GS moved a little bit and than began spinning, traction control reduced the throttle to nearly nothing. I was unsuccessful after trying for only seconds. My *** end was in the road so I couldn't stay there. This incline is such that I believe the front valiance will hit if I drive up and down it. Having said that, I might try to approach it a broader angle but not too broad to avoid hitting the valiance. My driveways plowed and to roads are clear now, so it may be some time till I can retest it. But for clarification, I approached this obstacle as if the GS were a goat (to steal Rockville's expression). It's an unfair test for a two wheel drive car (RWD or FWD).

Grade is measured as Rise(ft) / Distance (ft) = Grade % so you can compare you driveway accordingly. If your driveway is 200' long and has an elevation of 50' then you've got a 25% grade.

I imagine with snow tires narrow than stock which is 245 and a bit of practice you won't have a problem at all. I recommend a 225 width tire.

Incendiary

Wow, thanks for the in-depth reply. I'm in Baltimore, but I'm also in the DC area often. If you have a bunch of cars available to test drive, I'll send my friend, as he's been looking into one. I'm unfortunately unavailable for the next few weeks, but when I get a chance I'll stop in and say hi.

Incendiary

Heh, was just teasing anyway. But yeah, summers are a big no-no when it's cold out, and especially if there's any snow or ice on the roads. Get snow tires, whether they be real snow tires or performance snows. I'm in the DC/Baltimore area, so I have Dunlop WinterSport M3's, since it doesn't snow too much here. For CT I'd imagine you might want some real snows, like some Q-rated Blizzaks...

Rockville

My customer Dave picked up his new GS430 last night. He usually changes off the factory treads when he buys a car. Most owners will wait until the first set wear down and replace them with the newest and best recommended by CL. From everyones experience with the Run Flats on the SC430 and the dramatic difference in the ride once a conventional high performance tire replaced the originals I've had a healthy skepticism of Run Flats. Of course Lexus has their own reasoning and here in the Eastern Region (Virginia up to Maine and West as far as Pittsburgh) we are issued 100% runflats and no spare. Another one of our recent GS300 buyers is a State Trooper and he also has a GX470. All he wanted was a spare of some kind and including the Spare tire clamp it will cost close to $300 for the small temporary. Anyway David's Crystal White GS430 now has Michelin Pilot Sport AS 245-40-18's. He left the dealership about 9PM and at 9:10 he called me to tell that the ride was so much better than the three test drives he took on the runflats. He doesn't have a spare until we can get one. The Michelins I was familiar with from use on the SC430. David also liked Yokohamas which are very quiet. BTW he also had the inside the rear glass parcel shelf mount of the XM antenna. It would have been a travesty to put the big black square on Crystal White trunk lid. He is very happy and thank you Club Lexus for the idea and photos of placement. We are going to install them all that way from now on.

looknow12

I do find my GS with tje runflats to be very quiet, it's hard to imagine it being much quieter, but after reducing the pressure to 32 I notice only suttle differences in the ride. It is still a bit too stiff. Is there a market for runflat tires with 500 miles on them?