2006 Lexus GS300 or 2006 BMW 530i?
03-05-05, 12:22 PM
#31
Lexus Connoisseur
Hehe. I was only adding agreement to what you and spwolf had mentioned. the rolling start accelerations are more realistic because you'll be doing more passing on the roads from a rolling momentum rather than from a stop light. 
03-05-05, 12:29 PM
#32
Originally Posted by flipside909
Hehe. I was only adding agreement to what you and spwolf had mentioned. the rolling start accelerations are more realistic because you'll be doing more passing on the roads from a rolling momentum rather than from a stop light.
03-05-05, 08:22 PM
#33
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by DrexLex
And I still agree with that point. But now that my calculation error is quoted in your post--I just wanted to explain.
03-05-05, 09:51 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by spwolf
Its kind of funny - when BMW had smaller hp ratings but larger torque, everyone pointed it out - now that Lexus has smaller hp and large torque, BMW lovers forget that part of the story.
There is nothing magical about BMW power ratings, nor does BMW understate their ratings (rather some other manufacturers overstate theirs). What they usually have is car that weights less, is geared shorted (0-60) and has a lot of torque. Well, GS300 now has more torque than 330i (upcoming one, current one is way behind), is also short geared and weights almost the same - hence 0-60 times are now the same.
Same for GS430 and 545i - torque ratings are similar (slightly at lower rpm from Lexus), weight is the same and 545i Auto even has 17" wheels standard to improve acceleration, yet is 0.1 slower from 0-60 than GS.
So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).
There is nothing magical about BMW power ratings, nor does BMW understate their ratings (rather some other manufacturers overstate theirs). What they usually have is car that weights less, is geared shorted (0-60) and has a lot of torque. Well, GS300 now has more torque than 330i (upcoming one, current one is way behind), is also short geared and weights almost the same - hence 0-60 times are now the same.
Same for GS430 and 545i - torque ratings are similar (slightly at lower rpm from Lexus), weight is the same and 545i Auto even has 17" wheels standard to improve acceleration, yet is 0.1 slower from 0-60 than GS.
So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).
03-07-05, 02:30 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Sandman
I think that both Lexus and BMW are known to be conservative with their specs. BMW is claiming 0-60 in 6.6s for the new engine (6.9s for the current model). Lexus is claiming 6.8s. Not something to ignore but not a major difference. Both engines have direct injection and variable intake and exhaust valves. Both have sophisticated 6 sp automatics. I was quite impressed with the new GS300 steering. I will be interested to hear what you report back after driving the car.
I'm looking forward to reading the magazine reviews and seeing the numbers that they get. I forget which mag (Motor Trend??) did it but you probably know that last month there was a sport/luxury sedan shoot-out and the 530 came in 3rd behind the Acura TL and Infiniti M. The GS was not included - much to my dismay! Having driven these cars and knowing that the mags tend to favor raw performance over refinement I would expect that the M would still take top place if the GS were included but I would be quite surprised if the RL were to beat the GS. I'm expecting that the mags will be very positive on the GS when they finally test it.
I'm looking forward to reading the magazine reviews and seeing the numbers that they get. I forget which mag (Motor Trend??) did it but you probably know that last month there was a sport/luxury sedan shoot-out and the 530 came in 3rd behind the Acura TL and Infiniti M. The GS was not included - much to my dismay! Having driven these cars and knowing that the mags tend to favor raw performance over refinement I would expect that the M would still take top place if the GS were included but I would be quite surprised if the RL were to beat the GS. I'm expecting that the mags will be very positive on the GS when they finally test it.
I did take a test drive this weekend on the new GS.
Again, i still do not like the steering response on the new GS (still too overboosted- although I am happy to report that its better than W211 E-class). I have no problem with the active steering like car and driver states, nor it feels artificial. Car and driver is probably the only magazine that i saw has such a negative response on the active steering. Personally the active steering works great and does not feel artificial at all.
The handling of the new GS is also improved but not M45/E60 level. The E60's lateral grip and dynamics are far better than GS. E60 has the least body roll of any car outthere simply due to excellent Active Stablization. The M45 on the other hand is also quiet amazing in its body roll and grip. Steering reponse on the M45 is a tad firmer than GS. I really like the M45.
The GS shines in the interior. No butts about it. It feels richer than the M45 (which is not that bad for a infiniti- this can't be said about the G35). The engine and transmission on the GS430 really worked well together. Very smooth as compare to the E500. But this is a norm for this category, so nothing that special. You could say that E500 is below norm in this category.
Things I don't like about the GS-
1. Exterior- I have to say this. I really think the new GS is too ugly, especially the head light and the rear end. This thing just reminds me of a $30k Maxima.
2. Trunk- who ever designed the trunk and rear should be fired immediately. This is a horrible design. Just too small.
For 8 years, I had hoped that Toyota would do a much better job. I walked away a little dissappointed at this latest effort.
Personally, this car needs a more focus exterior (copying maxima is not a good idea). A little less power steering boost. More power.
Nissan did a much better job with the new M45. If lexus was aiming at the 545i, i am afraid it has missed mark again. If lexus aimed at W211, then it sunk the W211 by a good margin. But then again, there are two cars in this category that is at least a step ahead (m45 and 545i). Both BMW and Infiniti are more fun to drive, and is just as smooth and quiet.
BTW, I am the few that really likes the new BMW E60 exterior styling.
03-07-05, 04:57 PM
#36
Originally Posted by chiawei
The 530 were the old engined 225HP with 214lb of torque. So the number will improve. BMW factory claim are always about 0.3 worse than mag average. While Lexus seems to be on the mark.
I did take a test drive this weekend on the new GS.
Again, i still do not like the steering response on the new GS (still too overboosted- although I am happy to report that its better than W211 E-class). I have no problem with the active steering like car and driver states, nor it feels artificial. Car and driver is probably the only magazine that i saw has such a negative response on the active steering. Personally the active steering works great and does not feel artificial at all.
The handling of the new GS is also improved but not M45/E60 level. The E60's lateral grip and dynamics are far better than GS. E60 has the least body roll of any car outthere simply due to excellent Active Stablization. The M45 on the other hand is also quiet amazing in its body roll and grip. Steering reponse on the M45 is a tad firmer than GS. I really like the M45.
The GS shines in the interior. No butts about it. It feels richer than the M45 (which is not that bad for a infiniti- this can't be said about the G35). The engine and transmission on the GS430 really worked well together. Very smooth as compare to the E500. But this is a norm for this category, so nothing that special. You could say that E500 is below norm in this category.
Things I don't like about the GS-
1. Exterior- I have to say this. I really think the new GS is too ugly, especially the head light and the rear end. This thing just reminds me of a $30k Maxima.
2. Trunk- who ever designed the trunk and rear should be fired immediately. This is a horrible design. Just too small.
For 8 years, I had hoped that Toyota would do a much better job. I walked away a little dissappointed at this latest effort.
Personally, this car needs a more focus exterior (copying maxima is not a good idea). A little less power steering boost. More power.
Nissan did a much better job with the new M45. If lexus was aiming at the 545i, i am afraid it has missed mark again. If lexus aimed at W211, then it sunk the W211 by a good margin. But then again, there are two cars in this category that is at least a step ahead (m45 and 545i). Both BMW and Infiniti are more fun to drive, and is just as smooth and quiet.
BTW, I am the few that really likes the new BMW E60 exterior styling.
I did take a test drive this weekend on the new GS.
Again, i still do not like the steering response on the new GS (still too overboosted- although I am happy to report that its better than W211 E-class). I have no problem with the active steering like car and driver states, nor it feels artificial. Car and driver is probably the only magazine that i saw has such a negative response on the active steering. Personally the active steering works great and does not feel artificial at all.
The handling of the new GS is also improved but not M45/E60 level. The E60's lateral grip and dynamics are far better than GS. E60 has the least body roll of any car outthere simply due to excellent Active Stablization. The M45 on the other hand is also quiet amazing in its body roll and grip. Steering reponse on the M45 is a tad firmer than GS. I really like the M45.
The GS shines in the interior. No butts about it. It feels richer than the M45 (which is not that bad for a infiniti- this can't be said about the G35). The engine and transmission on the GS430 really worked well together. Very smooth as compare to the E500. But this is a norm for this category, so nothing that special. You could say that E500 is below norm in this category.
Things I don't like about the GS-
1. Exterior- I have to say this. I really think the new GS is too ugly, especially the head light and the rear end. This thing just reminds me of a $30k Maxima.
2. Trunk- who ever designed the trunk and rear should be fired immediately. This is a horrible design. Just too small.
For 8 years, I had hoped that Toyota would do a much better job. I walked away a little dissappointed at this latest effort.
Personally, this car needs a more focus exterior (copying maxima is not a good idea). A little less power steering boost. More power.
Nissan did a much better job with the new M45. If lexus was aiming at the 545i, i am afraid it has missed mark again. If lexus aimed at W211, then it sunk the W211 by a good margin. But then again, there are two cars in this category that is at least a step ahead (m45 and 545i). Both BMW and Infiniti are more fun to drive, and is just as smooth and quiet.
BTW, I am the few that really likes the new BMW E60 exterior styling.
I just checked my February R/T mag - Road Test Summary on Pg 144: They tested the 530 last June and only got 7.2s. This is 0.3s slower than BMW claims.
I'm looking forward to seeing some side by side comparisons. There are so many different ways to test a car and so many external factors that influence the results.
Both the GS and 5 series are very light and both have similar sophistication. We will probably see a lot of leap-frogging over the next 18 months as incremental improvements are released.
Regarding the new engine for the 5 - is it me or did BMW take the new info off of the website?!?
I thought that this is where I saw their claim of 0-60 = 6.6s (automatic)I like the GS steering feel. To me it has a lot of the feel of the IS which gets a lot of compliments for being almost psychic in the steering department - almost anticipating your thoughts. But then again I was looking for some luxury in the blend so that is probably why I like the GS more than the M. Yes the magazines have really beat BMW up about their variable steering. One point I can understand is that if you rapidly decelerate into a tight turn the steering ratio is varying rapidly as you decelerate - so it can almost feel dangerous.
I agree that the trunk looks small - because it is. And the opening is really small. But I took some luggage and placed it inside. You know, the room that is there is very usable. In my 01 GS sometimes the room wasn't so usable because of irregular surfaces and the door closers getting in the way.
As for the external looks, well I know this is a point of taste so I respect your opinion. But like wine taste it is subjective. Saying that the GS looks like the Maxima is like saying a $100 bottle of wine is the same as a $5 gallon jug of wine with a screw top. They are both made from grapes but that is where the similarities end. To me one is refined and the other is crude. The both have almost a "fastback" look - but I don't see refinement in the Maxima architecture. No offense meant to a Maxima lover. But the Maxima looks to be designed by the Co-op Student and the GS looks to be desgined by the Master. I doubt that the Maxima was Lexus' intent. And I don't think that Lexus really wants to dethrone the 5-series. Probably isn't going to happen as long as Lexus has the focus on Luxury. That will always hold them back somewhat - but they have gotten pretty close with this GS.
Just as a point of interest look into the front wheel wells of the the GS and behold the front suspension. Lexus doesn't talk much about its new suspension but man does it look well engineered!!
And it handles a world better than the Gen 2.Thanks for sharing your observations with me.
03-07-05, 05:00 PM
#37
Now You See It - Now you Don't...
Originally Posted by lexguynj
I am in the market for either one of these vehicles by the middle of this year, so trying to make a decision.
BMW's website has been recently updated and listing the 2006 BMW 530i with the new 6 Cylinder Engine specs (255HP).
LINK: http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530iSedan
I have to say that I like the new gen GS. It looks sleeker and sportier. The GS430 looks incredible, however the problem I have is that the GS300 looks just OK to me (rims are so so, power is adequate, cornering and handling are OK).
Sure we can argue about the styling, price & reliability between these 2 vehicles (BMW being less reliable & higher in price as compared to Lexus), however the BMW 5 series has all the options that you want in a sports sedan. Most importantly the sports package with 18" Rims, wide tires & a true Sports Suspension. Sure it's an expensive option, but the even the stock 5 series has better cornering and handling than a new GS300.
You can then tell me that aftermarket upgrades can improve a GS300's handling. I can tell you that why spend all that extra money for a car that you THINK can have the potential to be great, but doesn't have it yet when you spend $45K to $50K on it. Then you realize the money you spend for upgrades can get you into the GS430 price range and why not get a GS430 with its beautiful V8?
Also the new BMW engine although has slightly more HP than the GS300 will also feel like a rocket (the current 225HP BMW 6 is quick). The GS300 is still good, but is it fun to drive and inspiring like the BMW?
I know this is a Lexus forum and I too am a Lexus owner (as well as a BMW owner), but the GS is a Sports Sedan, so it should be fun to drive, it should be quick, agile and have incredible handling. Some may say that it already has all of that. I say that it just does everything well, which is good, but doesn't inspire or make you giddy with excitement.
The GS430, like the BMW 545i will make you smile and has monster power, but if you are not in the market for those V8 versions, then a 530i with Sports Package is more appealing than a new GS300 IMHO.
Your comments would be much appreciated.
BMW's website has been recently updated and listing the 2006 BMW 530i with the new 6 Cylinder Engine specs (255HP).
LINK: http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530iSedan
I have to say that I like the new gen GS. It looks sleeker and sportier. The GS430 looks incredible, however the problem I have is that the GS300 looks just OK to me (rims are so so, power is adequate, cornering and handling are OK).
Sure we can argue about the styling, price & reliability between these 2 vehicles (BMW being less reliable & higher in price as compared to Lexus), however the BMW 5 series has all the options that you want in a sports sedan. Most importantly the sports package with 18" Rims, wide tires & a true Sports Suspension. Sure it's an expensive option, but the even the stock 5 series has better cornering and handling than a new GS300.
You can then tell me that aftermarket upgrades can improve a GS300's handling. I can tell you that why spend all that extra money for a car that you THINK can have the potential to be great, but doesn't have it yet when you spend $45K to $50K on it. Then you realize the money you spend for upgrades can get you into the GS430 price range and why not get a GS430 with its beautiful V8?
Also the new BMW engine although has slightly more HP than the GS300 will also feel like a rocket (the current 225HP BMW 6 is quick). The GS300 is still good, but is it fun to drive and inspiring like the BMW?
I know this is a Lexus forum and I too am a Lexus owner (as well as a BMW owner), but the GS is a Sports Sedan, so it should be fun to drive, it should be quick, agile and have incredible handling. Some may say that it already has all of that. I say that it just does everything well, which is good, but doesn't inspire or make you giddy with excitement.
The GS430, like the BMW 545i will make you smile and has monster power, but if you are not in the market for those V8 versions, then a 530i with Sports Package is more appealing than a new GS300 IMHO.
Your comments would be much appreciated.
03-08-05, 10:31 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Sandman
Hey, thanks for the info. I recently saw some 545 reviews and the car seemed to get about 0.3s better than BMW claimed like you said. Hmmmm........
I just checked my February R/T mag - Road Test Summary on Pg 144: They tested the 530 last June and only got 7.2s. This is 0.3s slower than BMW claims.
I'm looking forward to seeing some side by side comparisons. There are so many different ways to test a car and so many external factors that influence the results.
Both the GS and 5 series are very light and both have similar sophistication. We will probably see a lot of leap-frogging over the next 18 months as incremental improvements are released.
Regarding the new engine for the 5 - is it me or did BMW take the new info off of the website?!? I thought that this is where I saw their claim of 0-60 = 6.6s (automatic)
I like the GS steering feel. To me it has a lot of the feel of the IS which gets a lot of compliments for being almost psychic in the steering department - almost anticipating your thoughts. But then again I was looking for some luxury in the blend so that is probably why I like the GS more than the M. Yes the magazines have really beat BMW up about their variable steering. One point I can understand is that if you rapidly decelerate into a tight turn the steering ratio is varying rapidly as you decelerate - so it can almost feel dangerous.
I agree that the trunk looks small - because it is. And the opening is really small. But I took some luggage and placed it inside. You know, the room that is there is very usable. In my 01 GS sometimes the room wasn't so usable because of irregular surfaces and the door closers getting in the way.
As for the external looks, well I know this is a point of taste so I respect your opinion. But like wine taste it is subjective. Saying that the GS looks like the Maxima is like saying a $100 bottle of wine is the same as a $5 gallon jug of wine with a screw top. They are both made from grapes but that is where the similarities end. To me one is refined and the other is crude. The both have almost a "fastback" look - but I don't see refinement in the Maxima architecture. No offense meant to a Maxima lover. But the Maxima looks to be designed by the Co-op Student and the GS looks to be desgined by the Master. I doubt that the Maxima was Lexus' intent. And I don't think that Lexus really wants to dethrone the 5-series. Probably isn't going to happen as long as Lexus has the focus on Luxury. That will always hold them back somewhat - but they have gotten pretty close with this GS.
Just as a point of interest look into the front wheel wells of the the GS and behold the front suspension. Lexus doesn't talk much about its new suspension but man does it look well engineered!! And it handles a world better than the Gen 2.
Thanks for sharing your observations with me.
I just checked my February R/T mag - Road Test Summary on Pg 144: They tested the 530 last June and only got 7.2s. This is 0.3s slower than BMW claims.
I'm looking forward to seeing some side by side comparisons. There are so many different ways to test a car and so many external factors that influence the results.
Both the GS and 5 series are very light and both have similar sophistication. We will probably see a lot of leap-frogging over the next 18 months as incremental improvements are released.
Regarding the new engine for the 5 - is it me or did BMW take the new info off of the website?!?
I thought that this is where I saw their claim of 0-60 = 6.6s (automatic)I like the GS steering feel. To me it has a lot of the feel of the IS which gets a lot of compliments for being almost psychic in the steering department - almost anticipating your thoughts. But then again I was looking for some luxury in the blend so that is probably why I like the GS more than the M. Yes the magazines have really beat BMW up about their variable steering. One point I can understand is that if you rapidly decelerate into a tight turn the steering ratio is varying rapidly as you decelerate - so it can almost feel dangerous.
I agree that the trunk looks small - because it is. And the opening is really small. But I took some luggage and placed it inside. You know, the room that is there is very usable. In my 01 GS sometimes the room wasn't so usable because of irregular surfaces and the door closers getting in the way.
As for the external looks, well I know this is a point of taste so I respect your opinion. But like wine taste it is subjective. Saying that the GS looks like the Maxima is like saying a $100 bottle of wine is the same as a $5 gallon jug of wine with a screw top. They are both made from grapes but that is where the similarities end. To me one is refined and the other is crude. The both have almost a "fastback" look - but I don't see refinement in the Maxima architecture. No offense meant to a Maxima lover. But the Maxima looks to be designed by the Co-op Student and the GS looks to be desgined by the Master. I doubt that the Maxima was Lexus' intent. And I don't think that Lexus really wants to dethrone the 5-series. Probably isn't going to happen as long as Lexus has the focus on Luxury. That will always hold them back somewhat - but they have gotten pretty close with this GS.
Just as a point of interest look into the front wheel wells of the the GS and behold the front suspension. Lexus doesn't talk much about its new suspension but man does it look well engineered!!
And it handles a world better than the Gen 2.Thanks for sharing your observations with me.
The 7.2 was probably the worst ever on the RT (which shared the same report as edmunds), and edmunds stated that it could be faster.
2. GS is suppose to be a sportsedan. And it should be one and aimed at the 5 series. Infiniti did a much better job with the M. It has luxury (not as good as GS, but not far off either), it's fun to drive (again not as fun as BMW, but close enough). For me M is a much better effort than GS is.
If Lexus wanted GS to be like a over grown Avalon, than it miss the mark as well.
I just think the GS is not focused enough to be either.
03-08-05, 02:40 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
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Originally Posted by Sandman
Am I being a "blonde" or did BMW take down the new engine info for the 5-series?
Either way BMW dealer says March / April production for June delivery for the new 2006 530s.
03-08-05, 05:54 PM
#40
I concur with your statement, but it depends on your future goals.
The 5 series looks awesome and with the sports package your basically set. So if your looking for a sporty sedan right off the bat with no future mods, the 5 series is where you wanna go. I saw one just today in silver and it looked pretty damn good.
However, if you plan on modding I would difinitely look into the gs. It has lots of potential and it's a Lexus, the reliability is going to be there. I love the new styling and the interior looks great. I have always hated the center console and buttons of the bimmers. Their buttons looks old.
If you want the best of both worlds get a 430 and mod it.
The 5 series looks awesome and with the sports package your basically set. So if your looking for a sporty sedan right off the bat with no future mods, the 5 series is where you wanna go. I saw one just today in silver and it looked pretty damn good.
However, if you plan on modding I would difinitely look into the gs. It has lots of potential and it's a Lexus, the reliability is going to be there. I love the new styling and the interior looks great. I have always hated the center console and buttons of the bimmers. Their buttons looks old.
If you want the best of both worlds get a 430 and mod it.
03-08-05, 06:30 PM
#41
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Posts: n/a
Well we haven't even mentioned that the 5 interior is laughable for the price. Period. Its stark and empty. Has anyone here been inside one? Its sad, way behind the GS, M, E, A6 and the RL. Funny, but I do find all those lines interesting but every auto publication has stated, its not worthy of the price.
And looks, the 5, sadly, now looks like a Kia with lines in the side. The German proportions are gone. The E39 was pretty much perfect. The new 5 is quite ugly.
People used to look at BMWs with this expression
now the expression is 
BMW stated when the new 5 came out, they saw it as simply a superior vehicle to everything else and will price it as such.
And again, if your going to get an automatic BMW, you might as well get the M or GS. At this point, unless you track your car or drive like Jeff Gordan, you won't be able to tell much any difference.
And looks, the 5, sadly, now looks like a Kia with lines in the side. The German proportions are gone. The E39 was pretty much perfect. The new 5 is quite ugly.
People used to look at BMWs with this expression
now the expression is BMW stated when the new 5 came out, they saw it as simply a superior vehicle to everything else and will price it as such.
And again, if your going to get an automatic BMW, you might as well get the M or GS. At this point, unless you track your car or drive like Jeff Gordan, you won't be able to tell much any difference.
03-08-05, 06:46 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
I priced a similarly equipped 530 to a loaded GS 300. Mind you the GS has some things the 5 does not have and the 5 has some things the GS does not have but both have the major items.My price went from 45k base to 58k
Congratulations on Building Your BMW. Standard model shown.
If you like what you see below, be sure to save your configuration in order to enjoy a host of benefits. For example, you can apply online for a lease or financing with BMW Financial Services. Or forward your saved BMW directly to a BMW center. Or simply return to your saved BMW at a later time to continue where you left off.
2005 530i Sedan
Destination Charge
$695
Exterior
Titanium Silver Metallic
Interior
Poplar Grain Wood Trim
Packages
Sport Package
$3,300
Premium Sound Package
$1,800
Premium Package
$1,800
MSRP
$45,400
Price as configured
$57,875
Options
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
$1,275
Power Rear Sun Shade/Manual Rear Side Window Shade
$575
Xenon Adaptive Headlights with dynamic auto-leveling
$800
BMW On-Board Navigation System
$1,800
Rear Deck Spoiler
$430
03-08-05, 06:54 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
I was curious. I loaded a 525 the same way. Yes 184hp. 53k with comparative features to a loaded GS 300.
2005 525i Sedan
Destination Charge
$695
Exterior
Titanium Gray Metallic
Interior
Packages
Premium Sound Package
$1,800
Premium Package
$2,000
Sport Package
$3,000
MSRP
$41,300
Price as configured
$53,835
Options
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
$1,275
Power Rear Sun Shade/Manual Rear Side Window Shade
$575
Xenon Adaptive Headlights with dynamic auto-leveling
$800
BMW On-Board Navigation System
$1,800
Rear Deck Spoiler
$430
Leather Selector Lever w/Wood Inlay
$160
03-08-05, 07:09 PM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
Forget about the price, when you see the pics of both cars from various angles I would say the GS is a far better looking car both inside and out. About the only nice feature of the bmw is the front end. The side is so so and the rear is just plain ugly 
As for the interior, I very much dislike bmw's double cowl dash. Reminds me of an ATM machine. To me its a no brainer... the GS all the way vs a bmw 5 series.
As for the interior, I very much dislike bmw's double cowl dash. Reminds me of an ATM machine. To me its a no brainer... the GS all the way vs a bmw 5 series.