Battle of the Big 3! GS series vs 5 series vs E class
04-09-05, 03:38 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by flossn
Two points; AMG and M
Bring back a stronger more performance driven L-Tuned and they would bring some customers over. Yeah it would be rough starting out but I'm sure AMG and M weren't so well taken to in their early years. .
Bring back a stronger more performance driven L-Tuned and they would bring some customers over. Yeah it would be rough starting out but I'm sure AMG and M weren't so well taken to in their early years. .
I drove the new GS today, the styling is very appealing and the interior is just THAT much better than before. Not too crazy about the buttons being bottom left of the steering wheel and it's fairly "hidden". The car seems very room, almost 740i roomy in the back. Power, eh....I think they can improve A LOT in that catagory. The handling was not bad either. Oh I drove the GS300 AWD. I can't imagine the GS430 beiing much faster than last gen GS430 but the wheels look HOT.
Sick, this is AC BTW...great write up....only wish Lexus would make an AMG and M competitor but I don't think we'll ever see one here in the US...no need to change a successful formula.
I think I will buy my mother a GS300 AWD, if she decides to give up her ES330 and she absolutely LOVES her ES...
04-09-05, 06:30 PM
#47
Originally Posted by spwolf
I dont think Lexus will want to sell as many per year, that means bigger incentives, etc, etc. I doubt they will significantly raise production from their estimates either. From their sales goals, seems they will be happy to hoover around 300k mark this year, and that probably means lower incentives on RX330.
I dont see what the big hoopla for 530i is, it was significantly slower in any performance measurment than GS430 in CD, so for the same price it doesnt make any sense. It was below average in handling as well among cars tested so buying 530i performance? Hm.
To me 530i is definetly the souless car of the group, no emotion in the design both interior and exterior, typical German coldness and engineering.
I dont see what the big hoopla for 530i is, it was significantly slower in any performance measurment than GS430 in CD, so for the same price it doesnt make any sense. It was below average in handling as well among cars tested so buying 530i performance? Hm.
To me 530i is definetly the souless car of the group, no emotion in the design both interior and exterior, typical German coldness and engineering.
C&D could have gotten a sports packaged 530i at that price. Which would beat GS430 in handling hands down. 530i in that test was a base 530i (hence that price tag listed in C&D test is wrong).
That's why I really dislike C&D test recently. They delibereately twisted data to fit the outcome they choose. Simple as that. At the price tested, they could have opted for either a base 545i or fully loaded 530i with sports package. Instead they choose a base 530i.
In addition, they micraculously deducted $2k off GS430's sticker by not counting the moonroof and the parking sensor (which was part of the test car). They inflated price on the 530i.
Looking at C&D's own test on 530i sports earlier last year. 530i sports has significant advantage over GS430 in grip/handling. This month test was rigged to make a point.
04-09-05, 07:53 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by E55_POWER
Actually, MB and BMW sold the AMG and M models without discounting the cars and still had about a 2 year backlog on those sporty cars.
I drove the new GS today, the styling is very appealing and the interior is just THAT much better than before. Not too crazy about the buttons being bottom left of the steering wheel and it's fairly "hidden". The car seems very room, almost 740i roomy in the back. Power, eh....I think they can improve A LOT in that catagory. The handling was not bad either. Oh I drove the GS300 AWD. I can't imagine the GS430 beiing much faster than last gen GS430 but the wheels look HOT.
Sick, this is AC BTW...great write up....only wish Lexus would make an AMG and M competitor but I don't think we'll ever see one here in the US...no need to change a successful formula.
I think I will buy my mother a GS300 AWD, if she decides to give up her ES330 and she absolutely LOVES her ES...
I drove the new GS today, the styling is very appealing and the interior is just THAT much better than before. Not too crazy about the buttons being bottom left of the steering wheel and it's fairly "hidden". The car seems very room, almost 740i roomy in the back. Power, eh....I think they can improve A LOT in that catagory. The handling was not bad either. Oh I drove the GS300 AWD. I can't imagine the GS430 beiing much faster than last gen GS430 but the wheels look HOT.
Sick, this is AC BTW...great write up....only wish Lexus would make an AMG and M competitor but I don't think we'll ever see one here in the US...no need to change a successful formula.
I think I will buy my mother a GS300 AWD, if she decides to give up her ES330 and she absolutely LOVES her ES...
Glad to see you around mahn! I hope you stick around, your experience and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.As for the LExus (now called GT or so) line, well I don't think they can outpower the Germans. It seems they want to see how well the hybrids sell and industry/press reaction to them. Then with technology on the batteries improving (and all hybrid tech), the GT line could be forthcoming. The GT line would by hybrid higher performance cars.
Glad to see you here mahn
04-09-05, 08:29 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by chiawei
that's because C&D rigged the test.
C&D could have gotten a sports packaged 530i at that price. Which would beat GS430 in handling hands down. 530i in that test was a base 530i (hence that price tag listed in C&D test is wrong).
That's why I really dislike C&D test recently. They delibereately twisted data to fit the outcome they choose. Simple as that. At the price tested, they could have opted for either a base 545i or fully loaded 530i with sports package. Instead they choose a base 530i.
In addition, they micraculously deducted $2k off GS430's sticker by not counting the moonroof and the parking sensor (which was part of the test car). They inflated price on the 530i.
Looking at C&D's own test on 530i sports earlier last year. 530i sports has significant advantage over GS430 in grip/handling. This month test was rigged to make a point.
C&D could have gotten a sports packaged 530i at that price. Which would beat GS430 in handling hands down. 530i in that test was a base 530i (hence that price tag listed in C&D test is wrong).
That's why I really dislike C&D test recently. They delibereately twisted data to fit the outcome they choose. Simple as that. At the price tested, they could have opted for either a base 545i or fully loaded 530i with sports package. Instead they choose a base 530i.
In addition, they micraculously deducted $2k off GS430's sticker by not counting the moonroof and the parking sensor (which was part of the test car). They inflated price on the 530i.
Looking at C&D's own test on 530i sports earlier last year. 530i sports has significant advantage over GS430 in grip/handling. This month test was rigged to make a point.
Man you are lame. The BMW has some major shortfalls, face it. A 545i wouldn't have fared much better, just look at the Automobile (a long Euro fans magazine) comparison, where your beloved 545 lost to the GS430.
04-10-05, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Wow, AC! Glad to see you around mahn! I hope you stick around, your experience and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
As for the LExus (now called GT or so) line, well I don't think they can outpower the Germans. It seems they want to see how well the hybrids sell and industry/press reaction to them. Then with technology on the batteries improving (and all hybrid tech), the GT line could be forthcoming. The GT line would by hybrid higher performance cars.
Glad to see you here mahn
Glad to see you around mahn! I hope you stick around, your experience and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.As for the LExus (now called GT or so) line, well I don't think they can outpower the Germans. It seems they want to see how well the hybrids sell and industry/press reaction to them. Then with technology on the batteries improving (and all hybrid tech), the GT line could be forthcoming. The GT line would by hybrid higher performance cars.
Glad to see you here mahn
Anyway, my E55 is gone and I now have a CL55 now...fairly boring car actually even after Kleeman mods. Power is crazy but the car is "souless".
The new GS is HOT!! I would actually consider it if they added more power.
04-11-05, 10:26 AM
#51
Originally Posted by IsraelRX
Man you are lame. The BMW has some major shortfalls, face it. A 545i wouldn't have fared much better, just look at the Automobile (a long Euro fans magazine) comparison, where your beloved 545 lost to the GS430.
That base 545i with softer suspension just barely lose out on the handling.
It outperformed GS430 in all aspect (acceleration, brakes..).
Again, automobile tested a none-sport 545i, which actually did much better than I expected it would do with lousy tire and soft suspension. Still the 2 year old 545i is better performing car period.
No one knows exact finish order except the top three. I can't believe that listing by alphabetically would be twisted into 2nd to last place finish.
545i has a major sitcker shock compare to GS430. That will probably mean it will not win. But to say that 545i has major shortfall is beyond crap. BMW normal suspension tuning are very soft and spongy. That's why you rarely see a none-sports BMW on the road. Because it's rarely ordered.
04-12-05, 05:37 PM
#52
Originally Posted by flossn
Two points; AMG and M
Bring back a stronger more performance driven L-Tuned and they would bring some customers over. Yeah it would be rough starting out but I'm sure AMG and M weren't so well taken to in their early years. Lexus is just so far behind in this game, but they need to start if they want to build a fan base. If people are still using old stock supra motors to run rediculous 1/4 mile times, I would love to see what Toyota could do if they wanted to launch a true performance Lexus.
Bring back a stronger more performance driven L-Tuned and they would bring some customers over. Yeah it would be rough starting out but I'm sure AMG and M weren't so well taken to in their early years. Lexus is just so far behind in this game, but they need to start if they want to build a fan base. If people are still using old stock supra motors to run rediculous 1/4 mile times, I would love to see what Toyota could do if they wanted to launch a true performance Lexus.
That is what I am waiting for...
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