lyonkster

Those replying to this thread to say that they'd prefer doing some repairs on a 16 year old car instead of making new car payments are missing the point. The comparison is not between new cars and working on old cars, the comparison is between the 2GS and other vehicle of a similar vintage. And I definitely agree with the OP that the 2GS has way more suspension issues than other similar cars.

My '01 430 is almost constantly clunking, popping, or thumping. I've replaced lower control arms, caster arms, upper control arms, ball joints, rear knuckle bushings, rack mounts, etc. And within a few months of each of these, something else starts clunking.

The problem is not replacing the parts, I actually enjoy tinkering with the car. The problem is that it takes time to figure out what is clunking, and until then, I feel like I am driving a jaloppee that is about to lose a wheel. Not fun, and not right for a Lexus.

In contrast, my '97 Chrysler minivan, with more miles on it than the GS, has never once had a clunk. And it's riding on a completely original suspension, with the exception of new control arms which I put in only due to a brake upgrade I was doing, there was nothing wrong with the original arms.

Obviously someone can say that it's just my experience with each car. But look at the GS forum; at any given time you can find half dozen active threads asking for help diagnosing a mysterious clunk. On the Chrysler forum, I can't remember the last time someone complained about a clunk, a ball joint, control arm, etc.

I still love my 2GS, and I have no idea what I'd replace it with (I toyed with idea of M5's and S8's, but don't feel like shelling out the $$$), so I'll keep driving the GS. But that does not take away from the OP's correct observation, that these cars have a fairly troublesome suspension.

Dangit2001

I get the the point of this thread. I am a new GS owner but I do understand that the 2GS has problems with the suspension. I love the car, I rather work on fixing the problems than make payments on another car. This generation GS just happens to have a flaw in the suspension. You have two choices, either accept it or look for some something else.

Cars are not made to be trouble free like they were back in the day.

lyonkster

Actually they are. I remember well the days of the 3,000 mile oil changes, annual spark plug replacement, annual coil/points/condensor/wire replacements, constant mixture adjustments to get the car to run well. Shocks went out every couple of years. Fan belts broke/wore out every couple of years. And any engine or tranny making it to 100K without a rebuild was an anomaly.

Cars have become much more maintenance/trouble free over the years.

Dangit2001

I have to disagree. With all the electronics that are involved in managing the car, I feel that they cause more problems instead of providing a trouble free car.

All those things you mention above regarding maintenance I would say apply to older cars, simple mechanics no computers or sensors.

lyonkster

I was just replying to your comment that "Cars are not made to be trouble free like they were back in the day." So "older cars" are not included in the category of "cars of old"?

And despite computers and electronics, cars are way more reliable now than back then, when things broke left and right. The old cars were much simpler and cheaper to work on, no doubt, but they were not nearly as reliable as present day cars.

Dangit2001

Well for the sake of an on going back and forth and changing the topic of this thread. I am just going to say, you have your opinion and I have mine and I respect your opinion.

lyonkster

Ditto. Peace out.

SoCal Cyco

iTrader: (20)

i must be really lucky, I have not had to replace any suspension parts due to failure....now modifying yes

Ava92

iTrader: (3)

Lol before this i had an old TL that had the whole longblock and trans replaced under warranty

no problems with my GS400 for years now besides O2 sensor, door actuator, and mod problems like LED tails shorting and tires ripping in half

My front susp is all original besides coilovers and a few bushings maybe I lucked out. You guys have got me sweatin now

lyonkster

Not to scare you, but my scorecard at 150K is - ball joints, LCAs, UCAs, Caster arms, rear knuckle bushings, all AC servos, all door actuators, motor mounts, radiator, power steering pump.

It's actually not that bad a list for a 15 year old car with 150K; as I said earlier, the only nuisance is the nearly constant clunking or popping that takes lots of diagnostic efforts.

MattyG

It is true that the Lexus suspension is definitely going to cause more long term problems than your Chrysler. But the thing to remember is that the minivan's suspension was designed for simplicity rather than outright speed or performance.

Your Chryco uses a MacPherson strut front and a leaf spring beam axle back, and those are used quite widely because they are easy to manufacture and do workaday duty rather than trying to scream around fast corners. Interestingly now VW likes them too if you go by this generation of Jetta, and even Nissan went with this design for the Maxima back in the mid-nineties.

The GS uses double wishbone front and back and it's multi-link. Very sophisticated for the era. This design keeps suspension geometry optimum under different conditions while still retaining a smooth ride - a Lexus trademark.

The reason you may be seeing a lot of "suspension problem" threads on here is that this forum is a resource for the second, third or even fourth owners who buy their cars used. There's no way to know how the cars were driven or if they spent their time on pockmarked pothole roads.

Also a lot people on the 2GS thread like to mod their cars by lowering them and using larger than factory wheel/tire combinations.

I actually think cars, even our 2GS are relatively trouble free compared to the problems high performance touring cars had years ago. But I think it depends on individual owners and their own take on what they see as value vs fixes to the car. Lexus sort of did a compromise. They wanted a larger interior while trimming the outside dimensions. They also wanted a smooth ride while preserving cornering ability. So you kinda had to figure out if you wanted all the troubles of the German cars with their very expensive issues, or opt for a generally reliable car.

I don't think these cars were ever meant to be completely trouble free for 200K like say a Toyota Camry or Yaris.

lyonkster

You make a valid point, the more complex the suspension, the more things can go wrong. And the Lexus is certainly more complex than the Chrysler, I'll grant you that.

Still, I think the problem with the Lexus is not the complexity, but the poor engineering. A well engineered suspension should not have failing balljoints, bushings, etc, at the rates that we are seeing here. The Chrysler suspension, though less complex, also has ball joints and bushings, and I have never had one wear out. I'm guessing that this is because it is better engineered and is more heavy duty.

Now, I can to some extent accept your argument that something designed for performance may be more likely to wear out than something designed for durability, maybe this was Lexus' decision in this case. But I am a little skeptical. The Lexus suspension is not in the same class as a Ferrari or even a BMW, so it's hard for me to accept that "performance trumps durability". I don't think that the performance of the 2GS suspension justifies such poor durability. If it competed with the BMW's, then maybe, but it does not.

In the end, if the components were better engineered, they would not be failing like they have been for many of us.

That could be. My experience is as a second owner of car that I got with 30K miles and all records, and I maintained it religiously. I drive on good roads, and have kept it completely stock. Yet I am constantly dealing with thumps and clunks.

Again, I am not criticizing the car, I like it and have no idea what I'd get instead. I just happen to agree with the OP that the suspensions on these cars are (IMO) not very well engineered for durability.

MattyG

I would never call a Lexus suspension, "poorly engineered", per se. I would just call it a compromise. I know that my GS430 seems to sail over rough pavement with a few thumps and such, but it is never teeth-rattling harsh. And yet I can crank around a corner and whip a tailgater off my rear bumper that quick.

And I am actually using UHP Michelin Pilot AS3's with a W speed rating. Sometimes I've had a "clunk" as I turn into my back alley from the street. But I don't hear clunks at speed. I have the infamous wobble too, but it has been minimized with my AS3's. My problem is warped rotors from the previous owner. I guess I put up with it because the car offers so much more in terms of performance and its overall drive experience.

The gist of what you're saying is that a minivan's suspension is different from a high performance sedan's suspension and that the problems the two have are different. The Chryco minivans are dirt cheap these days and they certainly have had their issues including entire transmission meltdowns.

If you compare the Lexus' main competition: the E class and the E39, you'll soon discover the thousands of dollars that those fancy Germans cost their owners over a year if they have not been maintained properly. My fave is the E39 and it has a leaky V8 engine that will self destruct if you don't replace its bio-degradable cooling system and assorted gaskets. And the E class can be a whole other horror show.

I guess what I'm saying is you can't fix what the manufacturer did 20 years ago. You just have to deal with it or upgrade and that too can bring a whole other set of problems.

mizike

I am just getting into this 2002 Lexus GS 300 only has 63k miles on it, inside is beauty, engine is beauty, transmission awesome, engine power straight 3.0 solid. I think I will have to deal with some things for sure, but the options were High Car Payments and High insurance full coverage and not even paying the car off before it would have hit 120k miles easily. Thats not an option. I have a 2007 Saab 9-3 V6 Turbo, 160k miles on it and it has been my favorite care to date, paid cash for it, same thing just minor things here and there odds and ends weird issues that were just saab related. Seems the same with the Lexus, most got 200 to 300k miles, the forums are for people that love the car and work on them or get them fixed up. I have so many friends with new cars that are **** off the line, 2016 Camry, day 3 had to go back it was all messed up slipping transmission. New 2015 cars with 40 to 50k miles on them computers going bad, multiple thousand dollars to fix. New cars have so many electrical controlled parts you cant even open the hood for less than 500 bux. At least the older cars are pretty damn reliable, LUXURY that has been dropped in all these cheap plastic KIAS, CAMRY, CIVICS, insides are crap. Lexus REAL WOOD GRAIN, ALL LEATHER, its a different type of animal. No car payment, no high insurance, so there are trade offs for sure, but I think its worth it all day to enjoy and fix up these luxury cars, they dont look like every car on the road and dont cost 1000 bux every time in the shop.

SoCalSC4

If anyone wants to have some car maintenance fun, pick up a similar vintage E39 BMW.

A friend of mine has a 2000 540i 6-speed with similar mileage to my GS (140K) and the darned thing always needs something. Recently, he dealt with a coolant leak that required disassembling the front of the engine. Once that was buttoned-up, he noticed an oil leak - front & rear main seals. So, apart comes the front of the engine again - and out comes the transmission to replace the rear main.

At least it's slower than my GS400 He has a bunch of Dinan stuff on his E39, and I run a TRD thermostat, SRT intake, and axle-back exhaust. As old as it is, the 1UZ never ceases to amaze me.

On my 2GS, I've replaced the caster arms and lower ball joints. I consider these wear items, similar to shocks or brakes. BTW, I've had H&R coilovers in it since 2003, and have never had a front end shake - but I've always run custom built wheels that were hub-centric.