1QWKGS4

iTrader: (3)

The Pennzoil Ultra and Redline was a bit better on the Evaporation than Amsoil (NOACK Test)

And The Castro was a lil better on the Oxidation that the Amsoil (TEOST Test)

But the Amsoil won on all the most important categories.. Cold Crank, TBN and Four Ball wear Test.

UDel

I did not see the weights of the oil listed in that test but think they were all 5W30 correct? If they were all 5W30 then It may not be the fairest test. Mobil 1 5W 30 and Castrol 5W 30 are Group 3's. Mobil 1 OW 40 is a believe a group 4 and Castrol OW 30 is a group 4 synthetic which may have helped their performance over the ones they used.

1QWKGS4

iTrader: (3)

You are correct sir. it was 5w-30 test. From what I read other big name oil companies 0w-20 or 0w-30 perform just as well or better than Amsoil in the high temp (According to the specs on each oil brand)

0w-20 Amsoil is rated at 228 degrees Celsius Which is 442F

0w-20 Mobil 1 Extended @ 235 degrees Celsius which is 455F (highest I've seen comparing most brands)

5w-30 Regular Mobil 1 Synthetic is @ 230 degrees Celsius which is 446F


The only thing i can conclude that Amsoil is a little better is the higher TBN usually about 2-3 points higher. And their Cold Crank is better according to their cold "Pour" scores..

The higher TBN is what makes the Amsoil last so long.. other than a little better cold crank.. Its not the Super oil they lead everyone to believe.. If Mobil 1 or Castrol put more TBN in than its probably be very similar mileage-wise. But Amsoil isn't as high Temp as claimed if you do a fair test on the other weights..

SaiyanGS3

iTrader: (8)

Wow...there is a lot of misinformation in this thread concerning Amsoil. I wonder if the OP is a dealer. I used to see a lot of these type of threads on BITOG. I will say that there is NO BEST OIL on the market because BEST is subjective. I have a lot of experience with oil and their properties. Dr. Haas is a doctor, he isn't a guru of oil. Amsoil does have a very high TBN but that doesn't make it better than other oils. You have GS engines running on strictly dino oil with 300k miles on them. You have NY taxis running on dino oil with severe driving...motors have 500k. Due to SN requirements, all dino oils are Group 2 plus...meaning they hsve to add syn oil to base stock to achieve SN rating. If you do 25k oci, that's great...but that doesn't make it better than a person running PP or M1EP doing 10k oci...because both engines are still performing the same. Is Amsoil going to allow your GS engine to perform any better than an engine running PP, M1, Castrol synthetic? The answer is an astounding no. This is facts. I will also say that Fram OCOD filters are crsp but their synthetic filters are great! I typically run WIX, or Purolator Gold when i catch a good autozone code. As far as oil, I run whatever I find on sale as I'm well educated past the point of useless marketing. I'm still living off my current stash I bought from Kmart 4 years ago. The local store was closing so they were selling ALL of their oils for $4/gallon. So i bought everything on the shelf and asked the store manager to sell me everything in the back. I haven't purchased oil in over 4 years lol. My storage consist of every brand of syn and dino oil. Since I do mostly stop/go, I run for 7k and drain.

aj007

I have to play devil's advocate, just because your style of argument demands it... no offense.

So? Isn't BITOG exactly where you would expect to see long detailed articles about oil??? Seems like you are implying something. Please state it directly.

Subjective??? Things that are subjective are things like taste, smell, fashion, beauty, moral values, etc.. Determining the best of something for a given application based on scientific measurements is not subjective, but concrete and evidence-based.


Interesting here. You discredit Dr. Haas for being only a doctor, but you say you have "a lot of experience with oil" and yet do not state your qualifications as compared to Dr. Haas'. You are clearly making a comparison between you and Haas, but do so unfairly. At any rate, I would say that being a doctor is a plus since he probably knows how to think logically and critically.

I swear I am not associated with these oil guys, you just pushed a lot of my buttons. Cheers

SaiyanGS3

iTrader: (8)

That's ok as I don't care if I pushed your buttons. No offense taken buddy. If you are an OG on bitog, then you will know understand where my statement comes from. If the OP is a member of bitog, then he will understand my comment as that site had issues with certain amsoil dealers making inflated claims on the site until knowledgeable members ran them away. I'm not going to explain the backstory on Dr. Haas even though it's a great article...it has a few holes in it. Also I never compared myself to a doctor. I myself am a Petroleum Engineer with Upstream, Midstream, and Downstream experience. I also work for a Big 5 oil company...so yeah I know what I'm talking about.

Ok sensitive guy who gets upset at forum postings lol....since you have facts on determining which oil on the market is the best, please PROVE which is the best oil on the market and provide hard FACTS that back up your claim. I would like to see your historical data that discusses the composed base stocks groups involved, TAN, TBN, Calcium, ect. AND show how that provides superior performance over every oil on the market...ALONG with providing historical data that proves that it will make every engine in the world perform better vs every other oil on the market. Since you states that Since you had issue with me saying that it's subjective, prove your points with facts. I would like to see you prove your statement of "Determining the best of something for a given application based on scientific measurements is not subjective, but concrete and evidence-based."

I could get deeper with technical terms...but I don't want to blow your mind just yet. I'm waiting for you to do the unthinkable....do what hasn't been done before smart guy. You obviously know something my peers and I don't know. Provide FACTS of which oil in the market is the absolute best. I'm looking for hard data. I'm waiting...

RamAirRckt

I have an Amsoil dealership yes, do I sell it? No, just to me and my family (at cost), I'm not into sales. I got it to run the long oil changes. Is it the best? No, someone else said it, there is no one best oil. They have to meet min specs. But not saying there is oils that outperform others too.

NOACK, I don't worry about too much, I can control it (add more oil). As it is my car runs about 1/2 quart oil use for 25k miles. So my thoughts that is probably the NOACK loss. Can't complain there.

I guess what I would like to see is this:

If any oil is just as good as any other, run it for 25k (with oil analysis) and if it still is usable, that is fine. I don't like the idea of with as many miles as I drive having to change the oil every other month. In the nasty winters here, that sucks and I don't care to do it. If Amsoil gives me that one thing it is well worth it for me. That is my main reason to use it. So in my case, I save quite a bit of $$ on Amsoil alone. At Walmart nowdays you pay as much for Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Plat as Amsoil. Oil has got sooo expensive now. Being we don't know if oils are Group 2, 3, 4 or ? anymore, I still with what I know.

When I was in the Army we did oil analysis and I think I had one vehicle in the 8 years I was in that we actually changed the oil and filters on. Bigger stuff, M35's and M939's (Semi actually, M931), We just didn't change oil often and that was terrible short trips and starting it up for 10 min weekly at times and then shutting it off. Granted, very large sumps and big filters. I think the 6.2L HMMWV's and CUCV's got semi annual oil changes. 15W40 dino oil.

Most oils run low TBN, I like high TBN for the long drain. Before I went back to Amsoil I just ran diesel oil, Mobil 1 5W40 or Rotella 5W40, Rotella 15W40, Delo 15W40, whatever I found cheap. But xW40 is too thick for a 1UZ-FE. So I went back to Amsoil because I could get the high TBN oil.

I'm with Saiyan on oil changes with dino oil. 7k-7500 on dino, Ill run 10k on Mobil 1 or Castrol or whatever synthetic. Amsoil is the only one I would consider going 25k I pushed 30k once, that was too much. That would put me with at least 2 oil changes in the dead of winter. And in the long run, still more expensive to do it that way than Amsoil. Its just cost effective.

SaiyanGS3

iTrader: (8)

Great response. Just FYI, my response wasn't meant for you, it was meant for the clueless guy I quoted. He came in with a jargon and once I listed technical things to verify, he dissappeared. I know that you are very knowledgeable on oil so I definitely understand where you are coming from. Oil is very expensive now. I haven't priced oil personally in years, but I do know that the prices have gone up. I would rather have a high TBN too!! If you don't mind, how much does 6 qts of Amsoil run now and days? I remember the delta in price in yesteryears didn't make it economical. Since prices of syn has gone up, I'm interested in hearing the price. You can PM me if you don't want to post.

aj007

What??? lol, I didn't respond to you because I didn't want to embarrass you again. And now I see you're back-peddling from your initial accusations... haha, you're funny.

SaiyanGS3

iTrader: (8)

Just another newb troll who doesn't know anything. Embarrass me due to your knowledge please. You know nothing and never will be able to counter my response. Ignorn list you go. It's people like you why this board has gone to ish now. Ugh.

UDel

I priced it a few weeks ago and it was around $75 for 6 quarts once you included shipping. That is way too much to pay just for oil for 1 oil change even if it is good oil so I decided to go with a different synthetic brand. If they have a sale I will try Amsoil.

RamAirRckt

If you go like I do for 25k oil changes, its way cheaper. If you short change the oil, then its more expensive.

Cost of Mobil 1 EP 5W30 on Walmart.com is $8.98. You should be able to get a 5 quart jug cheaper per quart, but we need 5.5 quarts IIRC. Maybe be able to squeak by with 5 quarts on the 51348 filter.
Wix Filter 51515 or 51348 $5
$9x6=54+5=$59, even if you change it at 10000 miles, to go 25k that is approaching $180. If you can catch sale price oil that helps. If you change at 3000 miles with any oil that is still very costly to go 25000 miles.

So Amsoil is cheaper for 25k miles. I have hard proof on my personal car that 25k miles on Amsoil 0W20 and Amsoil filter shows that it is NOT in any way hurting the engine. I've done oil analysis 3x in the last 66k miles, Amsoil 0W20 (30100 miles), Castrol Edge Titanium (gold bottle) 5W20 (11000 miles) and then Amsoil 0W20 again (25050 miles). The Castrol Edge did fine but was on par with the Amsoil by 11k, where the Amsoil survived 25k, Castrol didn't have the high enough TBN to go more than about 12-14k tops. Nearly 100% identical conditions. I drive the same drive all the time.

If you choose less distance on the oil changes, then yes, it is more expensive. But no reason to toss out good oil and a filter early.

aj007

Hey, uh, you should knock-off the name calling which is only going to backfire for you. And attacking me isn't going to distract from your first post in this thread. If you are going to accuse the OP - and possibly others - of spreading misinformation then you better be prepared to defend your argument from criticism as well. You can't expect to make serious charges like that without a rebuttal... get a life.

UDel

You have a good point which I have considered, I would be nervous driving 25K miles on the same oil/filter but I don't doubt yours and others test results with amsoil. If I am traveling a lot, very busy, staying at a apartment with no garage to change my own oil, it would be very nice not to have to worry about oil changes every 6000-10,000 miles/every year and it would not cost much more for Amsoil if I could get away with 1 oil change with Amsoil compared to 2 with Mobil 1 or Castrol. in the same amount of miles

I can get a 5qt jug of Mobil 1 5W30 Synthetic at Wal mart for around $24, I think the last one I got was a little cheaper on sale plus a qt for 8 or 9 bucks, oil filter is 5 or 6 bucks so my oil changes are normally around $38, normally I will have enough of the extra quart left over to not have to buy an extra qt for the next oil change so it would be a bit less the second change. Much better then paying $100 for Lexus or $80 for Toyota to do it.

I did a early oil change this time because I wanted to do a engine flush, I also added a product to help with a gasket leak in the winter and did not know how it would affect the Mobil 1 synthetic I have always used plus I wanted to do another transmission drain/fill. I wanted to try a higher end full class 4 or 5 synthetic just to see how it performed. I was going to try Amsoil but 75$ for 6 qts turned me off to it, a few days later I saw the deal for Castrol where I could get 5 qts of German 0W30 and a oil filter for $35 and a $10 coupon/card to Autozone was included with the deal which I could not pass up. I am going to try adding ceratec as a just in case precaution for the engine.

RamAirRckt

I don't know a single automotive company that recommends or supports ANY additives to the oil. I wouldn't mess with adding anything. Let the oil chemists do their thing, adding oil additives is as bad as politicians mandating 10% ethanol (now 15% in some places) when they have no idea, nor do they care what it will do to your engine and fuel system, not to mention lower mpg. Few if any politicians are legitimate petroleum chemists who understand what ethanol (and formerly MTBE) do to cars! (That is a whole another soap box I don't wanna get started in!)

How does one know what the "German" Castrol even is? The bottle doesn't say it does it?

Still curious of the fascination on "German" Castrol. No one seems to look for any other brands of oils that are sold overseas. Anyone know?