View Poll Results: Should I get an S4, SRT8 or stick with Lexus GS350 F-Sport AWD?
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll
Am I crazy to consider a S4 or SRT8?
07-14-14, 09:26 PM
#48
Instructor
Thread Starter
Last week, I drove two more cars from my list: (1) '08 GS350 AWD and (2) '10 LS460 AWD.
I'm intrigued by the 3rd-gen GS AWD because it has nearly everything the 4th-gen GS does ... for ~$20K less. The rub is its age, soft handling and reputation for being a less than stellar Lexus product. In a round about way, the '10 LS AWD made my short list because it nicely splits the price of the 3rd-gen and 4th-gen GS. I found both at a local dealership, which made for a great side-by-side comparison opportunity. Though I don't plan on buying a car with >100K mi miles, it's quite likely that it'll accumulate that many during my ownership. I wanted to see how they looked / felt / drove with higher miles (especially the GS).
I drove the '08 GS350 AWD w/ML and >100k mi first. Overall, I think it's a huge value leader at just over $20K with low miles, awd, ML, ventilated seats, keyless doors and start, remote start, roof, unquestioned reliability and probably faster than my 2GS4. With the 3rd-gen GS lasting until model year '11, it'll be out there for a few more model years.
+ The interior on this car hadn't been loved by one of more of its former owner(s) - showing lots of wear and tear from abuse in my opinion, but I'll be damned if it didn't drive like a champ.
+ It was quiet when cruising over good and bad roads. The tranny and suspension were smooth and quiet. The manual shifting was fun even though there were no paddles.
+ Deep list of features and powertrain that come darn close to matching the five year newer '13 4th-gen GS350 awd that costs $20K more. What do you really get? Is it just a bigger navi screen and significantly better handling?
+/- On the performance side of the ledger, it was a bit lethargic off the line and under 3K rpms, but came alive as it approached 4K. I'd like to think my 2GS4 is faster, but that's me being a homer - it's probably a hair slower.
- There was the quietest of rattles (1-2?) coming from the dash on uneven pavement, but that was it. I'm being awfully tough to hold such a little thing against it. Sorry.
I drove the '10 LS460 AWD w/ >100K mi next. WOW, but ultimately no thank you. IMHO, it's best suited to a long haul interstate cruiser. I wished it was Jekyll and Hyde, but it had no mean streak to offset the syrupy sweet ride. It's slow, handled like a pig and is a grandpa's car. I really, really, really wanted this one to work... but, I just can't do it.
+ Exuded the highest quality from everything I looked at, touched and felt. The leather was soft and supple. The seats were wide and comfy, like a couch. Dual pane windows in the front. I totally understand what it's like at the top of the Lexus food chain and this from a LS with high mileage!
+ Quietly glided over the road. So quiet. So detached from pavement imperfections. I could get used to it and wouldn't begrudge anyone else who did, too! Too bad, it can't dance. Not even a little. Nope.
+ "Hold" button that keeps the brakes applied at stops was outstanding. I could get used to that really easily.
- Slow. With a detuned version of the RWD's 380hp, the ~300lb heavier awd version is left with ~350hp. Fatty.
- Handled like a pig with embarrassing levels of squealing from the tires (like new Primacy MXM something or others) and no, I didn't drive it like an arsehole. It was on a roundabout that didn't unsettle my 2nd-gen GS or the 3rd-gen GS that I tested that day.
- Gas pedal had a horrible two-stage design probably meant to keep up the mpg's. It has a hitch in it ~2/3 of the way to the firewall. Annoying.
- Grandpa's Lexus. Admit it, that's the demographic. And there's nothing to convince folks otherwise: it's not fast and it can't handle.
Yes, I'm still aiming to drive a '13-14 GS350 AWD w/Lux package. The F-sport front bumper and 19" wheels look so much better, but I much prefer the Luxury pkg's wood trim. It has 20-way adjustments on the seats and semi-aniline leather. It has an adaptive suspension, but not the sport-tuned version or the bigger brakes. Is it worth ~$20K over the '08 that has the same powerplant and tranny?! Choices.
I'm intrigued by the 3rd-gen GS AWD because it has nearly everything the 4th-gen GS does ... for ~$20K less. The rub is its age, soft handling and reputation for being a less than stellar Lexus product. In a round about way, the '10 LS AWD made my short list because it nicely splits the price of the 3rd-gen and 4th-gen GS. I found both at a local dealership, which made for a great side-by-side comparison opportunity. Though I don't plan on buying a car with >100K mi miles, it's quite likely that it'll accumulate that many during my ownership. I wanted to see how they looked / felt / drove with higher miles (especially the GS).
I drove the '08 GS350 AWD w/ML and >100k mi first. Overall, I think it's a huge value leader at just over $20K with low miles, awd, ML, ventilated seats, keyless doors and start, remote start, roof, unquestioned reliability and probably faster than my 2GS4. With the 3rd-gen GS lasting until model year '11, it'll be out there for a few more model years.
+ The interior on this car hadn't been loved by one of more of its former owner(s) - showing lots of wear and tear from abuse in my opinion, but I'll be damned if it didn't drive like a champ.
+ It was quiet when cruising over good and bad roads. The tranny and suspension were smooth and quiet. The manual shifting was fun even though there were no paddles.
+ Deep list of features and powertrain that come darn close to matching the five year newer '13 4th-gen GS350 awd that costs $20K more. What do you really get? Is it just a bigger navi screen and significantly better handling?
+/- On the performance side of the ledger, it was a bit lethargic off the line and under 3K rpms, but came alive as it approached 4K. I'd like to think my 2GS4 is faster, but that's me being a homer - it's probably a hair slower.
- There was the quietest of rattles (1-2?) coming from the dash on uneven pavement, but that was it. I'm being awfully tough to hold such a little thing against it. Sorry.
I drove the '10 LS460 AWD w/ >100K mi next. WOW, but ultimately no thank you. IMHO, it's best suited to a long haul interstate cruiser. I wished it was Jekyll and Hyde, but it had no mean streak to offset the syrupy sweet ride. It's slow, handled like a pig and is a grandpa's car. I really, really, really wanted this one to work... but, I just can't do it.
+ Exuded the highest quality from everything I looked at, touched and felt. The leather was soft and supple. The seats were wide and comfy, like a couch. Dual pane windows in the front. I totally understand what it's like at the top of the Lexus food chain and this from a LS with high mileage!
+ Quietly glided over the road. So quiet. So detached from pavement imperfections. I could get used to it and wouldn't begrudge anyone else who did, too! Too bad, it can't dance. Not even a little. Nope.
+ "Hold" button that keeps the brakes applied at stops was outstanding. I could get used to that really easily.
- Slow. With a detuned version of the RWD's 380hp, the ~300lb heavier awd version is left with ~350hp. Fatty.
- Handled like a pig with embarrassing levels of squealing from the tires (like new Primacy MXM something or others) and no, I didn't drive it like an arsehole. It was on a roundabout that didn't unsettle my 2nd-gen GS or the 3rd-gen GS that I tested that day.
- Gas pedal had a horrible two-stage design probably meant to keep up the mpg's. It has a hitch in it ~2/3 of the way to the firewall. Annoying.
- Grandpa's Lexus. Admit it, that's the demographic. And there's nothing to convince folks otherwise: it's not fast and it can't handle.
Yes, I'm still aiming to drive a '13-14 GS350 AWD w/Lux package. The F-sport front bumper and 19" wheels look so much better, but I much prefer the Luxury pkg's wood trim. It has 20-way adjustments on the seats and semi-aniline leather. It has an adaptive suspension, but not the sport-tuned version or the bigger brakes. Is it worth ~$20K over the '08 that has the same powerplant and tranny?! Choices.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; 07-14-14 at 09:32 PM.
07-21-14, 06:00 PM
#50
Last week, I drove two more cars from my list: (1) '08 GS350 AWD and (2) '10 LS460 AWD.
I'm intrigued by the 3rd-gen GS AWD because it has nearly everything the 4th-gen GS does ... for ~$20K less. The rub is its age, soft handling and reputation for being a less than stellar Lexus product. In a round about way, the '10 LS AWD made my short list because it nicely splits the price of the 3rd-gen and 4th-gen GS. I found both at a local dealership, which made for a great side-by-side comparison opportunity. Though I don't plan on buying a car with >100K mi miles, it's quite likely that it'll accumulate that many during my ownership. I wanted to see how they looked / felt / drove with higher miles (especially the GS).
I drove the '08 GS350 AWD w/ML and >100k mi first. Overall, I think it's a huge value leader at just over $20K with low miles, awd, ML, ventilated seats, keyless doors and start, remote start, roof, unquestioned reliability and probably faster than my 2GS4. With the 3rd-gen GS lasting until model year '11, it'll be out there for a few more model years.
+ The interior on this car hadn't been loved by one of more of its former owner(s) - showing lots of wear and tear from abuse in my opinion, but I'll be damned if it didn't drive like a champ.
+ It was quiet when cruising over good and bad roads. The tranny and suspension were smooth and quiet. The manual shifting was fun even though there were no paddles.
+ Deep list of features and powertrain that come darn close to matching the five year newer '13 4th-gen GS350 awd that costs $20K more. What do you really get? Is it just a bigger navi screen and significantly better handling?
+/- On the performance side of the ledger, it was a bit lethargic off the line and under 3K rpms, but came alive as it approached 4K. I'd like to think my 2GS4 is faster, but that's me being a homer - it's probably a hair slower.
- There was the quietest of rattles (1-2?) coming from the dash on uneven pavement, but that was it. I'm being awfully tough to hold such a little thing against it. Sorry.
I drove the '10 LS460 AWD w/ >100K mi next. WOW, but ultimately no thank you. IMHO, it's best suited to a long haul interstate cruiser. I wished it was Jekyll and Hyde, but it had no mean streak to offset the syrupy sweet ride. It's slow, handled like a pig and is a grandpa's car. I really, really, really wanted this one to work... but, I just can't do it.
+ Exuded the highest quality from everything I looked at, touched and felt. The leather was soft and supple. The seats were wide and comfy, like a couch. Dual pane windows in the front. I totally understand what it's like at the top of the Lexus food chain and this from a LS with high mileage!
+ Quietly glided over the road. So quiet. So detached from pavement imperfections. I could get used to it and wouldn't begrudge anyone else who did, too! Too bad, it can't dance. Not even a little. Nope.
+ "Hold" button that keeps the brakes applied at stops was outstanding. I could get used to that really easily.
- Slow. With a detuned version of the RWD's 380hp, the ~300lb heavier awd version is left with ~350hp. Fatty.
- Handled like a pig with embarrassing levels of squealing from the tires (like new Primacy MXM something or others) and no, I didn't drive it like an arsehole. It was on a roundabout that didn't unsettle my 2nd-gen GS or the 3rd-gen GS that I tested that day.
- Gas pedal had a horrible two-stage design probably meant to keep up the mpg's. It has a hitch in it ~2/3 of the way to the firewall. Annoying.
- Grandpa's Lexus. Admit it, that's the demographic. And there's nothing to convince folks otherwise: it's not fast and it can't handle.
Yes, I'm still aiming to drive a '13-14 GS350 AWD w/Lux package. The F-sport front bumper and 19" wheels look so much better, but I much prefer the Luxury pkg's wood trim. It has 20-way adjustments on the seats and semi-aniline leather. It has an adaptive suspension, but not the sport-tuned version or the bigger brakes. Is it worth ~$20K over the '08 that has the same powerplant and tranny?! Choices.
I'm intrigued by the 3rd-gen GS AWD because it has nearly everything the 4th-gen GS does ... for ~$20K less. The rub is its age, soft handling and reputation for being a less than stellar Lexus product. In a round about way, the '10 LS AWD made my short list because it nicely splits the price of the 3rd-gen and 4th-gen GS. I found both at a local dealership, which made for a great side-by-side comparison opportunity. Though I don't plan on buying a car with >100K mi miles, it's quite likely that it'll accumulate that many during my ownership. I wanted to see how they looked / felt / drove with higher miles (especially the GS).
I drove the '08 GS350 AWD w/ML and >100k mi first. Overall, I think it's a huge value leader at just over $20K with low miles, awd, ML, ventilated seats, keyless doors and start, remote start, roof, unquestioned reliability and probably faster than my 2GS4. With the 3rd-gen GS lasting until model year '11, it'll be out there for a few more model years.
+ The interior on this car hadn't been loved by one of more of its former owner(s) - showing lots of wear and tear from abuse in my opinion, but I'll be damned if it didn't drive like a champ.
+ It was quiet when cruising over good and bad roads. The tranny and suspension were smooth and quiet. The manual shifting was fun even though there were no paddles.
+ Deep list of features and powertrain that come darn close to matching the five year newer '13 4th-gen GS350 awd that costs $20K more. What do you really get? Is it just a bigger navi screen and significantly better handling?
+/- On the performance side of the ledger, it was a bit lethargic off the line and under 3K rpms, but came alive as it approached 4K. I'd like to think my 2GS4 is faster, but that's me being a homer - it's probably a hair slower.
- There was the quietest of rattles (1-2?) coming from the dash on uneven pavement, but that was it. I'm being awfully tough to hold such a little thing against it. Sorry.
I drove the '10 LS460 AWD w/ >100K mi next. WOW, but ultimately no thank you. IMHO, it's best suited to a long haul interstate cruiser. I wished it was Jekyll and Hyde, but it had no mean streak to offset the syrupy sweet ride. It's slow, handled like a pig and is a grandpa's car. I really, really, really wanted this one to work... but, I just can't do it.
+ Exuded the highest quality from everything I looked at, touched and felt. The leather was soft and supple. The seats were wide and comfy, like a couch. Dual pane windows in the front. I totally understand what it's like at the top of the Lexus food chain and this from a LS with high mileage!
+ Quietly glided over the road. So quiet. So detached from pavement imperfections. I could get used to it and wouldn't begrudge anyone else who did, too! Too bad, it can't dance. Not even a little. Nope.
+ "Hold" button that keeps the brakes applied at stops was outstanding. I could get used to that really easily.
- Slow. With a detuned version of the RWD's 380hp, the ~300lb heavier awd version is left with ~350hp. Fatty.
- Handled like a pig with embarrassing levels of squealing from the tires (like new Primacy MXM something or others) and no, I didn't drive it like an arsehole. It was on a roundabout that didn't unsettle my 2nd-gen GS or the 3rd-gen GS that I tested that day.
- Gas pedal had a horrible two-stage design probably meant to keep up the mpg's. It has a hitch in it ~2/3 of the way to the firewall. Annoying.
- Grandpa's Lexus. Admit it, that's the demographic. And there's nothing to convince folks otherwise: it's not fast and it can't handle.
Yes, I'm still aiming to drive a '13-14 GS350 AWD w/Lux package. The F-sport front bumper and 19" wheels look so much better, but I much prefer the Luxury pkg's wood trim. It has 20-way adjustments on the seats and semi-aniline leather. It has an adaptive suspension, but not the sport-tuned version or the bigger brakes. Is it worth ~$20K over the '08 that has the same powerplant and tranny?! Choices.
09-28-14, 06:53 PM
#51
Instructor
Thread Starter
...and it's done: 2012 E550 4Matic. With a little help from depreciation (ok a lot), I'm the proud owner of a twin turbo V8 powered awd sport sedan.
Here's hoping Consumer Reports, JD Power, Edmunds and USAtoday aren't wrong on its reliability! Wish me luck. I just might need it.
Here's hoping Consumer Reports, JD Power, Edmunds and USAtoday aren't wrong on its reliability! Wish me luck. I just might need it.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; 10-09-14 at 08:58 PM.
09-28-14, 08:47 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
...and it's done: 2012 E550 4Matic. With a little help from depreciation (ok a lot), I'm the proud owner of a twin turbo V8 powered sport sedan.
Here's hoping Consumer Reports, JD Power, Edmunds and USAtoday aren't wrong on its reliability! Wish me luck. I just might need it.
Here's hoping Consumer Reports, JD Power, Edmunds and USAtoday aren't wrong on its reliability! Wish me luck. I just might need it.
Sometimes you just have to go with your heart and soul.
12-22-14, 11:55 PM
#53
Instructor
Thread Starter
Me, again. I drove a '14 Caddy CTS V Sport today and wanted to share...
Recall that I was head over heels for the CTS-V (still kinda am!), but just couldn't quite pull the trigger. The silly range (poor mpg and tiny tank) combined with an aging interior from '08 conspired to hold me up. Add to that, news of the CTS V Sport was breaking and it was supposedly a head and shoulders improvement over the prev-gen CTS. Well, I finally found my way into the driver's seat of the V Sport.
Overall, the CTS V delivered big-time on dollars per button, but I was disappointed it wasn't a knock-out against the prev-gen CTS-V. The V Sport is a nice enough car, but it's no V.
* Definitely a nice interior, but I was expecting far more. CUE was OK, but some buttons would take some adjustment to use properly. No soft touch dash. Only a few WTF's (which nearly every car has).
* Hard to believe it does 60 in 4.4-4.5s (and maybe 4.2s), but nearly every instrumented test supports it. Touchy accelerator. Didn't pull away at hwy speeds like I expected.
* Lots of racy engine noise, but I didn't care for its rodded-out TT V6 sounds. Total turn off.
* 8spd tranny and paddle shifters were grand. Rapid, blipped downshifts. Unfortunately, it was eager to start upshifting on its own though within ~10s of my manual downshift.
* Steering required constant input as it tracked every which way but straight, like the front tires were tramlining.
* Next-gen MR susp lost the plot versus the CTS-V. It didn't soak up the little stuff nearly as well and wasn't as firm (I was in Sport, but not Track mode).
* Cool gadgets: Multi-function, moveable HUD. Lane departure tied to seat buzzers. Cue system was fine, but its haptic feedback didn't seem fully connected to the activity you were performing. Configurable flat panel driver display was cool, but dubious value.
* Imperfect gadgets: Motorized cup holder lid was loud, slow and silly. Too much info presented in the HUD, like lane departure status (maybe it can be optioned off?). Color on the configurable flat panel driver display was flat and dull.
* Still no AWD, which has to be a competitive disadvantage these days.
Recall that I was head over heels for the CTS-V (still kinda am!), but just couldn't quite pull the trigger. The silly range (poor mpg and tiny tank) combined with an aging interior from '08 conspired to hold me up. Add to that, news of the CTS V Sport was breaking and it was supposedly a head and shoulders improvement over the prev-gen CTS. Well, I finally found my way into the driver's seat of the V Sport.
Overall, the CTS V delivered big-time on dollars per button, but I was disappointed it wasn't a knock-out against the prev-gen CTS-V. The V Sport is a nice enough car, but it's no V.
* Definitely a nice interior, but I was expecting far more. CUE was OK, but some buttons would take some adjustment to use properly. No soft touch dash. Only a few WTF's (which nearly every car has).
* Hard to believe it does 60 in 4.4-4.5s (and maybe 4.2s), but nearly every instrumented test supports it. Touchy accelerator. Didn't pull away at hwy speeds like I expected.
* Lots of racy engine noise, but I didn't care for its rodded-out TT V6 sounds. Total turn off.
* 8spd tranny and paddle shifters were grand. Rapid, blipped downshifts. Unfortunately, it was eager to start upshifting on its own though within ~10s of my manual downshift.
* Steering required constant input as it tracked every which way but straight, like the front tires were tramlining.
* Next-gen MR susp lost the plot versus the CTS-V. It didn't soak up the little stuff nearly as well and wasn't as firm (I was in Sport, but not Track mode).
* Cool gadgets: Multi-function, moveable HUD. Lane departure tied to seat buzzers. Cue system was fine, but its haptic feedback didn't seem fully connected to the activity you were performing. Configurable flat panel driver display was cool, but dubious value.
* Imperfect gadgets: Motorized cup holder lid was loud, slow and silly. Too much info presented in the HUD, like lane departure status (maybe it can be optioned off?). Color on the configurable flat panel driver display was flat and dull.
* Still no AWD, which has to be a competitive disadvantage these days.
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GS - 4th Gen (2013-2020)
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07-14-14 02:47 PM