2005 GS300 starter melted
03-22-12, 08:10 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
2005 GS300 starter melted
I just signed up ,,,and have a 'weird' problem with my 2005 GS300. It has 85,000 miles with zero troubles until today.
Today, I drove it around doing some errands and when I came home I parked it in the garage. About 45 minutes later I went out to drive it again and the garage was full of 'burned insulation' smell and lots of smoke. There was a buzzing coming from the starter area. I disconnected the battery.
It is apparent that the engine began cranking by itself while I was inside, and did so until the starter finally got 'smoking hot' and gave up. Keep in mind the ignition key was in my house, nowhere near the car.
I recharged the battery and reconnected it. Nothing for about 15 seconds, then all of sudden you can hear the starter trying to do something but it mostly sounds sick. The starter is obviously 'cooked' and smells really bad.
I took out the starter relay and the starter no longer does anything. Put the relay back and the starter tries to turn again. All of this is with no ignition key in the switch.
Has anyone heard of this issue before or am I the lucky first one to have it?
My suspicion is the ignition switch has failed but I have not had time to do any further investigation yet. It feels normal, for what that's worth.
Today, I drove it around doing some errands and when I came home I parked it in the garage. About 45 minutes later I went out to drive it again and the garage was full of 'burned insulation' smell and lots of smoke. There was a buzzing coming from the starter area. I disconnected the battery.
It is apparent that the engine began cranking by itself while I was inside, and did so until the starter finally got 'smoking hot' and gave up. Keep in mind the ignition key was in my house, nowhere near the car.
I recharged the battery and reconnected it. Nothing for about 15 seconds, then all of sudden you can hear the starter trying to do something but it mostly sounds sick. The starter is obviously 'cooked' and smells really bad.
I took out the starter relay and the starter no longer does anything. Put the relay back and the starter tries to turn again. All of this is with no ignition key in the switch.
Has anyone heard of this issue before or am I the lucky first one to have it?
My suspicion is the ignition switch has failed but I have not had time to do any further investigation yet. It feels normal, for what that's worth.
Last edited by GregCon; 03-22-12 at 08:21 PM.
03-22-12, 10:32 PM
#2
Instructor
Yes, worn contacts in the starter siloniod will get caught on the plunger and not release.
Your lucky there was no fire, but your starter is done. Replacing the starter is your fix.
Your lucky there was no fire, but your starter is done. Replacing the starter is your fix.
03-23-12, 07:04 AM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
Well, it turned out the be just the starter. I replaced it and everything is back to normal.
As noted, there could have easily started a fire which could have burned down my whole house......not the most impressive bit of engineering in that starter. I've never seen a starter fail in that manner before.
I also did some internet searching yesterday and saw many people paying a lot of money to have the starter replaced....all I can say is it sounds like the typical garage-ripping-people-off bit. The entire starter change out took 35 minutes and that included the time it took to put the car on and off the lift and wash my hands. It is a very easy job.
As noted, there could have easily started a fire which could have burned down my whole house......not the most impressive bit of engineering in that starter. I've never seen a starter fail in that manner before.
I also did some internet searching yesterday and saw many people paying a lot of money to have the starter replaced....all I can say is it sounds like the typical garage-ripping-people-off bit. The entire starter change out took 35 minutes and that included the time it took to put the car on and off the lift and wash my hands. It is a very easy job.
03-23-12, 08:26 AM
#5
Odd situation GregCon, glad you got it diagnosed and repaired so quickly. As for the high cost for starter replacement, you may have been reading about the GS4 starter. The V8 starter is harder to get to, I was quoted $700 at a reasonable shop.
Yvie, starter rebuild kits are available, check out Sewell.
Yvie, starter rebuild kits are available, check out Sewell.
03-23-12, 08:36 AM
#6
Instructor
Way to go!!!
And Welcome...
I would not say very easy job, took me almost twice as long in my wife's GS300, about an hour. But yes not a hard job at all... But if I had a LIFT it would be super easy and maybe it would only take me 14 minutes...
I have used a Denso starter rebuild kit that comes with 4 different contacts gaskets and plunger that match up pretty good. Contacts are also available from Lexus or Toyota or your local starter rebuild shop for cheap.
My friend pulled up in my driveway in his 1997 LX. His starter was stuck and cranking the motor, horrible noise, I immediately pulled the negative battery cable. The starter was hot, we pulled it and noticed one contact was welded to the plunger. No other damage. I replaced the contacts with some I had on hand and sanded down the plunger. He was good to go till the new parts came in...
It happens.
And Welcome...
I would not say very easy job, took me almost twice as long in my wife's GS300, about an hour. But yes not a hard job at all... But if I had a LIFT it would be super easy and maybe it would only take me 14 minutes...
I have used a Denso starter rebuild kit that comes with 4 different contacts gaskets and plunger that match up pretty good. Contacts are also available from Lexus or Toyota or your local starter rebuild shop for cheap.
My friend pulled up in my driveway in his 1997 LX. His starter was stuck and cranking the motor, horrible noise, I immediately pulled the negative battery cable. The starter was hot, we pulled it and noticed one contact was welded to the plunger. No other damage. I replaced the contacts with some I had on hand and sanded down the plunger. He was good to go till the new parts came in...
It happens.
Last edited by FrankT; 03-23-12 at 08:48 AM. Reason: If I only had a lift...
03-23-12, 08:46 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I'm glad it did not catch on fire and you got away with it. There's been some past horror stories from different car communities and their starters failing and setting itself on fire.
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03-23-12, 11:07 AM
#8
I think others answered it, the starter itself is relatively cheap. Only on the gs400 is the installation the big part of the total cost.
If your OEM failed, maybe you should question if denso got it right now 14years ago. Maybe just getting a pre-tested remanufactured one (and turning in yours for core) is the same or better than doing the rebuild. That's my logic anyway.
I just my mechanic order it and install on my gs300, so they took care of everything and carries the shop warranty.
Total out the door: 241.17. I think ~$100 labor, $140 parts more or less. Which is about the same price if I tried ordering on the internets.
If your OEM failed, maybe you should question if denso got it right now 14years ago. Maybe just getting a pre-tested remanufactured one (and turning in yours for core) is the same or better than doing the rebuild. That's my logic anyway.
I just my mechanic order it and install on my gs300, so they took care of everything and carries the shop warranty.
Total out the door: 241.17. I think ~$100 labor, $140 parts more or less. Which is about the same price if I tried ordering on the internets.
03-23-12, 02:30 PM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
I didn't spend a lot of time analyzing it but I assume the contacts in the solenoid were in contact with the main armature field. In other words, the heavy positive cable had continuity with the smaller lead, all within the starter itself. What I don't understand is why I could stop it from trying to spin by removing the relay located up by the battery.
The thing that bothers me the most is I don't know of any way a person could prevent this from happening other than redesign the inside of the starter.
On thing is for sure - that old starter was a charred mess and you could see where insulation had just poured out of the condensation weep hole after the rubber boot burned off.
The thing that bothers me the most is I don't know of any way a person could prevent this from happening other than redesign the inside of the starter.
On thing is for sure - that old starter was a charred mess and you could see where insulation had just poured out of the condensation weep hole after the rubber boot burned off.
03-23-12, 02:49 PM
#11
These are pretty damn reliable starters, and it's the same style toyota has been making for many many years, all those old toyota 4x4 trucks, corrollas, etc from the 80's have the exact same internal design as these do.
I have seen starters get replaced and the lugs get tightened too hard and it twists the contact plate on the inside. This usually just causes no connection but could possible allow it to hang the plunger.
These internal contacts get worn quite a bit after a while, and are only a couple dollars to replace, but this starter sounds like it went well beyond the point of saving.
Glad you got it fixed!
I would be interested to see a pic of the damage inside of the starter if you still have it laying around and haven't tossed it yet.
I have seen starters get replaced and the lugs get tightened too hard and it twists the contact plate on the inside. This usually just causes no connection but could possible allow it to hang the plunger.
These internal contacts get worn quite a bit after a while, and are only a couple dollars to replace, but this starter sounds like it went well beyond the point of saving.
Glad you got it fixed!
I would be interested to see a pic of the damage inside of the starter if you still have it laying around and haven't tossed it yet.
03-26-12, 06:16 AM
#12
Driver
Thread Starter
Sorry, I turned it in for the core charge. It smelled so bad I didn't want it hanging around. My car still smells!
This was a Lexus starter, installed on the factory floor and never touched since new.
One thing that is interesting is I never felt the car started that quickly - it always seemed to need about a second or two longer to start than I thought it should. The 'new' (rebuilt) starter cranks a little faster and the car starts more quickly.
This was a Lexus starter, installed on the factory floor and never touched since new.
One thing that is interesting is I never felt the car started that quickly - it always seemed to need about a second or two longer to start than I thought it should. The 'new' (rebuilt) starter cranks a little faster and the car starts more quickly.
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