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The shaky steering wheel and vibration thread!
02-06-12, 12:08 PM
#1
The shaky steering wheel and vibration thread!
I'm posting this for one simple reason. I've lurked this forum for a bit and I read alot before I started posting here. The main problems that I see with most owners on here are the issues with the sloppy/shaky steering and vibration issues.
Let me make this clear; all cars vibrate to some degree. Even brand new vehicles. There are TONS of variables to take into account when diagnosing vibration. First off; our cars are manufactured/researched/developed in a specific way using specific parts. If one or more parts are to go bad or need replacing and we either upgrade to a 'performance' part or with an aftermarket part then you will have a slight difference as with everything ( think of it this way; you have a recipe for your favorite bacon dip -- but you're all out of pork bacon so you're using turkey bacon, same ingredients -- slight difference in taste).
I see alot of guys (women too) purchasing these cars now for about 20% of the cost of the car brand new. 9 times out of 10 you will have high mileage, alot of parts needed to be replaced and sometimes you'll have to replace parts without even realizing what the issue/bad part was in the first place.
This is mostly for a do it yourself type of person.
If you have vibration in the cabin you can check the following:
1. Any rattles, squeaking, vibration on dash parts? Check to be sure the parts in your cabin are screwed down correctly. Purchase some synthetic lubricant spray; maybe silicone spray and lube wherever you want to, in between plastic areas, in moving gears, hinges, rubberized areas, etc.
2. Feel around your floor, make sure that there are no bumps in the floor "pan" , no indentations left around from previous owners who have no clue on how to jack up the cars. Look under your car at the jack point at the four corners of the vehicle. Are these all straight or bent? Get the correct jack pad plate. They're around $15 for a plate.
3. Noises in the cabin, creaks, squeaks? - Remove the parts you seem to have the creaks and squeaks with. There is felt tape behind these parts. Go to any auto parts distributor/store, lexus dealer, toyota dealer and get a roll. Replace these parts. Lexus/toyota make specific noise reduction kits. They can be found to this date and are not discontinued. Do some research, find out, ask questions. Call people.
Lastly, but foremost READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE DIAGNOSING or REPLACING PARTS.
If you have steering shake or body/cabin shake, wobbling, jerking:
First, check your fluid levels, power steering fluid should be clear red and have a "sweet" smell, Check your tranny fluid as well, same principle.
Daizen makes a bushing kit (steering kit and sway kit). Also they do make a control arm kit (As per member: sakataj)
Carson Toyota/Sewell Lexus all sell/distribute replacement castor bushings (but they arent designed very well according to figs) (As per member: sakataj)
FIGS has spherical bushings for our castor arms, as well as many other suspension parts for our 2GS. (As per member: sakataj)
Alignment. Do it, get one done. 9 times out of 10 -- the tech's will tell you what you'll need to get replaced. Most times for FREE.
Motor/transmission mounts: REPLACE.
1. Check your front ball joints first. If they haven't been replaced? car over 90k miles? replace them.
2. Check your front outer tie rods. Ball joints not stiff anymore? Replace.
3. Check your front inner tie rods. Go to youtube; search inner tie rod test. Same symptoms? Replace.
4. front lower caster arm. Bushing broken? able to freely move this arm/part? Replace. Upgrade and if you want, get the daizen bushing kit.
5. Check front lower control arm 1, bushings bad? Replace.
6. Front upper control arm? Looks bad? Ball joint loose? Replace.
7. Check your steering rack. Get it checked out -- cost should be cheap. If you need to replace this, its a couple screws, drain some fluids and they should come with brand new inner tie rods.
8. Rear toe rods? Bad ball joint? Replace.
9. Rear traction rod bushings done? Replace the entire part or buy oem.
10. Rear upper control arms, if you go in for an alignment -- they can check this easily. If its shot. Replace.
11. Rear axles, check them - loose? shaking? Replace.
12. Same rear brake check as fronts (see abs section)
13. Rear carrier arm bushings (lower) you can replace this bushing, hard to find and somewhat expensive. Do this right, don't rush.
Anything else I miss, post in this thread.
You have abs/brake issues:
1. Rotors. I believe this is the number one issue and number one area that you can spend some coin on that won't break the bank and that either will be needed or that can be your first point of maintenance/diagnosis. Alot of rotors warp; I'm not an engineer or a physicist but let's take for instance tightening your lugs too tight, then couple that with braking alot and frequently, as your rotors heat up they will slowly over time start to bend (for lack of a better word) the rotor itself, causing your rotor/braking system to be out of round. For instance; cut a piece of paper into a circle and poke a hole into it, stick a pencil through it and put a crease/fold in the circle. Spin the pencil. Exactly.
- If shaking/vibration increases while braking (especially on a downhill slope) focus on braking system. (Downhill meaning on a straight road, uphill etc). It's either recommend replacing rotors (aftermarket rotors are around $35+) or cutting rotors ($15+). I recommend replacing the rotor with a new rotor. A brand new rotor is going to be better than a cut rotor. New rotors are (relatively) cheap enough. Sometimes alot of shops will throw a used rotor on a lathe and just throw it back to the customer without fully checking anything. A rotor that is already warped, can still be weight imbalanced, even if the sides are resurfaced. (As per member: raysteng)
- Before you do replace the rotor you can remove your wheels/rim and remove rust from hub/rotor mounting surface. A possible source of imbalance can be from uneven rotor mounting. (As per member: raysteng)
When you go down a long hill (Please use the gears). A turned rotor has a propensity to warp because you removed it's thermal mass. (As per member: sam12345)
2. Brake fluid flush/refill; important. Do it. Don't skimp out.
3. If your odo isn't working, check all of your abs speed sensors. Located behind the hub, 10mm bolt. Remove the head, wipe clean. If still not working, purchase a multimeter, follow the plug from the head of the speed sensor to the actual plug. From here, unplug and use the pins on the multimeter; exact specs can be found throughout this site but generally you can take down readings from all four sensors and gather which one might be bad. Zero readout = replace. If they are all within the same range you can move on; next check transmission speed sensors and move onto other 'speed' sensors. If still nothing changes look into your cars various ecu's.
4. Brake slipping/abs lights? -- check all of your brake lines and fittings and check for leaks. Make sure there are no leaks. Check your slide pins on the caliper. Aftermarket boots/replacements can be found for $20.00 or less. Buy a pair and replace them all. Make sure to regrease the slide pins. Check your rotors for runoff/wear. Replace or cut as needed. Check your pads? Low? replace, uneven? check everything.
5. Still having brake issues? Check your abs pump cylinder/booster. Replace as needed.
The road and tires:
1. All roads are different, you might ride on smooth roads (to your eyes) but within the roads there may be pivots, bulges, uneven asphalt, cracks, crevices, road crown, etc. Your tires (summer, winter, all season etc) play a huge role in this. Tire profile, width, etc all play a role. If you're running on a nankang vs. michelin ps3 you might have a smoother ride/quieter ride on the nankang for the first couple of miles then start having issues or vice versa. Choose a good brand tires, stick to it.
2. Check your tires for bulges, or missing chunks, holes, nails, etc. Replace as needed.
3. ROAD FORCE BALANCE YOUR WHEELS AND TIRES. With the way that roads are built today you won't get the same feeling on Interstate-95 vs. the Autobahn.
- Be sure Roadforce balance/alignment has the StraightTrak LFM option to identify and optimize front pair of tires. (http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findlocations.cfm) If you cannot afford Roadforce balance, try swapping front to rear or changing front tire pairs to see if that can make an improvement or identify the best front tire combination. Along these lines, once you do find a good front pair, give up on rotating tires. You will most likely get the shake back. If you have staggered rims, please do not try to swap front tires to the rear (or wheels). (As per member: raysteng)
Wheels:
1. The hub size on 2nd gen gs' are 60.1mm, all lexus oem wheels are hubcentric. Look up the definition. Non hub centric wheels REQUIRE a hub centric ring to close the gab between the hub on the vehicle and the wheel itself. If you dont have these on aftermarket wheels (whether its $500 ASA rims or $15k carbon fiber rims), you will get the vibes.
2. Have your wheels checked for bends, and for other issues, cracks, etc.
3. Road force balance. Do it. Worth the extra $
Transmission:
1. If you have a bad/dying transmission -- this will cause alot of vibration.
To date I've replaced all of the following; inner tie rods, outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, front lower ball joints, front caster arms (01+), front daizen bushings, sway bar bushings, rear is200 carrier bushings, rear toe control rods, rear traction control rods, front upper control arms, front complete bearings, front sway end links, rear sway end links and probably much more that I can't care to remember. I've had stock 16's, 17's 18's and 19's with all different tire and rim combo's. Each behaved differently.
You want the soft lexus ride? Keep the car stock. You want the bmw feel? Buy a bmw.
Hope this helps alot of people out. If I missed something, let me know or post.
Let me make this clear; all cars vibrate to some degree. Even brand new vehicles. There are TONS of variables to take into account when diagnosing vibration. First off; our cars are manufactured/researched/developed in a specific way using specific parts. If one or more parts are to go bad or need replacing and we either upgrade to a 'performance' part or with an aftermarket part then you will have a slight difference as with everything ( think of it this way; you have a recipe for your favorite bacon dip -- but you're all out of pork bacon so you're using turkey bacon, same ingredients -- slight difference in taste).
I see alot of guys (women too) purchasing these cars now for about 20% of the cost of the car brand new. 9 times out of 10 you will have high mileage, alot of parts needed to be replaced and sometimes you'll have to replace parts without even realizing what the issue/bad part was in the first place.
This is mostly for a do it yourself type of person.
If you have vibration in the cabin you can check the following:
1. Any rattles, squeaking, vibration on dash parts? Check to be sure the parts in your cabin are screwed down correctly. Purchase some synthetic lubricant spray; maybe silicone spray and lube wherever you want to, in between plastic areas, in moving gears, hinges, rubberized areas, etc.
2. Feel around your floor, make sure that there are no bumps in the floor "pan" , no indentations left around from previous owners who have no clue on how to jack up the cars. Look under your car at the jack point at the four corners of the vehicle. Are these all straight or bent? Get the correct jack pad plate. They're around $15 for a plate.
3. Noises in the cabin, creaks, squeaks? - Remove the parts you seem to have the creaks and squeaks with. There is felt tape behind these parts. Go to any auto parts distributor/store, lexus dealer, toyota dealer and get a roll. Replace these parts. Lexus/toyota make specific noise reduction kits. They can be found to this date and are not discontinued. Do some research, find out, ask questions. Call people.
Lastly, but foremost READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE DIAGNOSING or REPLACING PARTS.
If you have steering shake or body/cabin shake, wobbling, jerking:
First, check your fluid levels, power steering fluid should be clear red and have a "sweet" smell, Check your tranny fluid as well, same principle.
Daizen makes a bushing kit (steering kit and sway kit). Also they do make a control arm kit (As per member: sakataj)
Carson Toyota/Sewell Lexus all sell/distribute replacement castor bushings (but they arent designed very well according to figs) (As per member: sakataj)
FIGS has spherical bushings for our castor arms, as well as many other suspension parts for our 2GS. (As per member: sakataj)
Alignment. Do it, get one done. 9 times out of 10 -- the tech's will tell you what you'll need to get replaced. Most times for FREE.
Motor/transmission mounts: REPLACE.
1. Check your front ball joints first. If they haven't been replaced? car over 90k miles? replace them.
2. Check your front outer tie rods. Ball joints not stiff anymore? Replace.
3. Check your front inner tie rods. Go to youtube; search inner tie rod test. Same symptoms? Replace.
4. front lower caster arm. Bushing broken? able to freely move this arm/part? Replace. Upgrade and if you want, get the daizen bushing kit.
5. Check front lower control arm 1, bushings bad? Replace.
6. Front upper control arm? Looks bad? Ball joint loose? Replace.
7. Check your steering rack. Get it checked out -- cost should be cheap. If you need to replace this, its a couple screws, drain some fluids and they should come with brand new inner tie rods.
8. Rear toe rods? Bad ball joint? Replace.
9. Rear traction rod bushings done? Replace the entire part or buy oem.
10. Rear upper control arms, if you go in for an alignment -- they can check this easily. If its shot. Replace.
11. Rear axles, check them - loose? shaking? Replace.
12. Same rear brake check as fronts (see abs section)
13. Rear carrier arm bushings (lower) you can replace this bushing, hard to find and somewhat expensive. Do this right, don't rush.
Anything else I miss, post in this thread.
You have abs/brake issues:
1. Rotors. I believe this is the number one issue and number one area that you can spend some coin on that won't break the bank and that either will be needed or that can be your first point of maintenance/diagnosis. Alot of rotors warp; I'm not an engineer or a physicist but let's take for instance tightening your lugs too tight, then couple that with braking alot and frequently, as your rotors heat up they will slowly over time start to bend (for lack of a better word) the rotor itself, causing your rotor/braking system to be out of round. For instance; cut a piece of paper into a circle and poke a hole into it, stick a pencil through it and put a crease/fold in the circle. Spin the pencil. Exactly.
- If shaking/vibration increases while braking (especially on a downhill slope) focus on braking system. (Downhill meaning on a straight road, uphill etc). It's either recommend replacing rotors (aftermarket rotors are around $35+) or cutting rotors ($15+). I recommend replacing the rotor with a new rotor. A brand new rotor is going to be better than a cut rotor. New rotors are (relatively) cheap enough. Sometimes alot of shops will throw a used rotor on a lathe and just throw it back to the customer without fully checking anything. A rotor that is already warped, can still be weight imbalanced, even if the sides are resurfaced. (As per member: raysteng)
- Before you do replace the rotor you can remove your wheels/rim and remove rust from hub/rotor mounting surface. A possible source of imbalance can be from uneven rotor mounting. (As per member: raysteng)
When you go down a long hill (Please use the gears). A turned rotor has a propensity to warp because you removed it's thermal mass. (As per member: sam12345)
2. Brake fluid flush/refill; important. Do it. Don't skimp out.
3. If your odo isn't working, check all of your abs speed sensors. Located behind the hub, 10mm bolt. Remove the head, wipe clean. If still not working, purchase a multimeter, follow the plug from the head of the speed sensor to the actual plug. From here, unplug and use the pins on the multimeter; exact specs can be found throughout this site but generally you can take down readings from all four sensors and gather which one might be bad. Zero readout = replace. If they are all within the same range you can move on; next check transmission speed sensors and move onto other 'speed' sensors. If still nothing changes look into your cars various ecu's.
4. Brake slipping/abs lights? -- check all of your brake lines and fittings and check for leaks. Make sure there are no leaks. Check your slide pins on the caliper. Aftermarket boots/replacements can be found for $20.00 or less. Buy a pair and replace them all. Make sure to regrease the slide pins. Check your rotors for runoff/wear. Replace or cut as needed. Check your pads? Low? replace, uneven? check everything.
5. Still having brake issues? Check your abs pump cylinder/booster. Replace as needed.
The road and tires:
1. All roads are different, you might ride on smooth roads (to your eyes) but within the roads there may be pivots, bulges, uneven asphalt, cracks, crevices, road crown, etc. Your tires (summer, winter, all season etc) play a huge role in this. Tire profile, width, etc all play a role. If you're running on a nankang vs. michelin ps3 you might have a smoother ride/quieter ride on the nankang for the first couple of miles then start having issues or vice versa. Choose a good brand tires, stick to it.
2. Check your tires for bulges, or missing chunks, holes, nails, etc. Replace as needed.
3. ROAD FORCE BALANCE YOUR WHEELS AND TIRES. With the way that roads are built today you won't get the same feeling on Interstate-95 vs. the Autobahn.
- Be sure Roadforce balance/alignment has the StraightTrak LFM option to identify and optimize front pair of tires. (http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findlocations.cfm) If you cannot afford Roadforce balance, try swapping front to rear or changing front tire pairs to see if that can make an improvement or identify the best front tire combination. Along these lines, once you do find a good front pair, give up on rotating tires. You will most likely get the shake back. If you have staggered rims, please do not try to swap front tires to the rear (or wheels). (As per member: raysteng)
Wheels:
1. The hub size on 2nd gen gs' are 60.1mm, all lexus oem wheels are hubcentric. Look up the definition. Non hub centric wheels REQUIRE a hub centric ring to close the gab between the hub on the vehicle and the wheel itself. If you dont have these on aftermarket wheels (whether its $500 ASA rims or $15k carbon fiber rims), you will get the vibes.
2. Have your wheels checked for bends, and for other issues, cracks, etc.
3. Road force balance. Do it. Worth the extra $
Transmission:
1. If you have a bad/dying transmission -- this will cause alot of vibration.
To date I've replaced all of the following; inner tie rods, outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, front lower ball joints, front caster arms (01+), front daizen bushings, sway bar bushings, rear is200 carrier bushings, rear toe control rods, rear traction control rods, front upper control arms, front complete bearings, front sway end links, rear sway end links and probably much more that I can't care to remember. I've had stock 16's, 17's 18's and 19's with all different tire and rim combo's. Each behaved differently.
You want the soft lexus ride? Keep the car stock. You want the bmw feel? Buy a bmw.
Hope this helps alot of people out. If I missed something, let me know or post.
Last edited by justablkv8; 02-09-12 at 12:42 PM.
02-08-12, 10:41 PM
#5
Bump and nominate for Sticky or within the FAQ sticky.
I would add under brakes:
If shaking vibration increases while braking (especially on a downhill slope) focus on braking system.
-Recommend replacing rotors over cutting rotors
The balance of a new (non-cheapo) rotor from the mill is going to be better then a cut rotor at the majority of shops (assuming they didn't drop or warp the rotor during shipping or anything). New rotors are (relatively)cheap enough anyway....
Also, a rotor that is already warped, can still be weight imbalanced, even if the sides are resurfaced.
There was also one suggestion I saw in the threads to
-remove rust from hub / rotor mounting surface as a possible source of imbalance from uneven rotor mounting.
Under Wheels Tires:
-Be sure Roadforce balance/alignment has the StraightTrak LFM option to identify and optimize front pair of tires.
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findlocations.cfm
If you cannot afford Roadforce balance, try swapping front to rear or changing front tire pairs to see if that can make an improvement or identify the best front tire combination.
Along these lines, once you do find a good front pair, give up on rotating tires. You will most likely get the shake back.
I would add under brakes:
If shaking vibration increases while braking (especially on a downhill slope) focus on braking system.
-Recommend replacing rotors over cutting rotors
The balance of a new (non-cheapo) rotor from the mill is going to be better then a cut rotor at the majority of shops (assuming they didn't drop or warp the rotor during shipping or anything). New rotors are (relatively)cheap enough anyway....
Also, a rotor that is already warped, can still be weight imbalanced, even if the sides are resurfaced.
There was also one suggestion I saw in the threads to
-remove rust from hub / rotor mounting surface as a possible source of imbalance from uneven rotor mounting.
Under Wheels Tires:
-Be sure Roadforce balance/alignment has the StraightTrak LFM option to identify and optimize front pair of tires.
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findlocations.cfm
If you cannot afford Roadforce balance, try swapping front to rear or changing front tire pairs to see if that can make an improvement or identify the best front tire combination.
Along these lines, once you do find a good front pair, give up on rotating tires. You will most likely get the shake back.
Last edited by raytseng; 02-08-12 at 10:55 PM.
02-09-12, 05:24 AM
#7
What is it with Toyota and warped rotors in the last 5 years I have bought 4 toyotas and 2 Lexus and all of them have had warped rotors to one degree or the other. I put in some high quality rotors and brake lining and problem solved and then they never warp again. Either Toyota owners are morons and use their brakes when they go down a long hill (Please use the gears) or they are cheap and but crappy cheap brakes and rotors. By the way a turned rotor has a propensity to warp because you removed it's thermal mass. That is why I usually replace the rotors.
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02-09-12, 09:00 AM
#8
f'... wife just called.. she said the 65mph steering wheel shake is getting a bit worse... looks like first step for me will be to have the tires rebalanced and then rotated until i have some time to get the car in the air and have a look at the suspension components...
fffff
fffff
02-09-12, 11:35 AM
#9
nice post, you remind me of nigel NSF0607 (his first post was our first sticky, not the temporary nitto one, the one after that) its refreshing to see people read btw
few changes you can add or not, they just rolling around in my head....might wanna modify the Daizen's comment. they also make a control arm kit
and then add that CARSON/SEWELL all have replacement castor bushings (but they arent designed very well according to figs)
and that FIGS has spherical bushings for our castor arms (98-2000 models are done and im working on getting him control arms to do the 2001+ models)
few changes you can add or not, they just rolling around in my head....might wanna modify the Daizen's comment. they also make a control arm kit
and then add that CARSON/SEWELL all have replacement castor bushings (but they arent designed very well according to figs)
and that FIGS has spherical bushings for our castor arms (98-2000 models are done and im working on getting him control arms to do the 2001+ models)
02-09-12, 02:02 PM
#11
you know you dont have to put (As per member: sakataj) by those posts all those things i said are well documented or well known on the forums with the exception of the carson/sewell bushings. that came from members who have used some of them and FIGS saying they just werent designed well
i would vote for a sticky though
might also if u wanna do the legwork go back and post the best links to each one of those examples for people looking for them.... (im in a rush so this may not make any sense to you)
Last edited by sakataj; 02-09-12 at 02:06 PM.
02-09-12, 04:57 PM
#13
The post wasn't meant to be just about what I've experienced. The reason I quoted names after what you guys said is simple; you know about it or have experience with it so someone can pm you if they need guidance.
Its all about establishing a sense on community here.
Its all about establishing a sense on community here.
