Tech Info: Difference between GE VVTi and GTE VVTi oil pump.
12-26-11, 02:59 AM
#1
Tech Info: Difference between GE VVTi and GTE VVTi oil pump.
It's been a while since my last writeup. Just some tech info for those of you that are interested. I was putting together my two engines and happened to have some extra pumps on the shelf to dissect and take pictures of. I post these on a few other forums as well for people that are more technically inclined.
ProjectGS
Tech Article: 12/25/2011 (Yes, I was working on my car on Christmas
)
Here are the two oil pumps side by side. From this view, they are nearly identical.
Some differences start to pop up. The top pump is the GE pump bottom is GTE. Notice that the GTE pump housing protrudes downwards a bit. The sealing surface where both pumps meet the upper oil pan are the exact same location and height.
A better view of the two pumps differences. The pump casing of the GTE pump is physically bigger.
Flipped over on the back. I also took the screws off the pump cover plate. Be careful when you do this, they are phillips screws and torqued down very tight. They are VERY VERY easy to strip or round off the heads. I had to use a impact gun with a good amount of pressure to ensure I did not round off any screw heads. Also, notice that the GTE pump has the extra oil relief bypass which the GE does not have.
Pump plate cover has been removed. Notice the differences in the pumps now? The GTE georotor gear assembly is noticeably bigger. This is because in the GTE engine, the oil pump has to feed the 6 piston cooling sprayers and feed the twin turbos. This is like creating 8 pretty good sized pressure drops in the lubrication system. The GTE pump is larger than the GE pump because the GE does not have to feed as many passages.
The pumps fully disassembled.
Close up of the GTE pump components.
Close up of the GE pump components.
Size comparison of the internal parts of the pumps.
GTE inner pump rotor diameter is 85mm
GE inner pump rotor diameter is 77mm
GTE outer pump rotor diameter is 108mm
GE outer pump rotor diameter is 91mm
This is a oil drain hole for the inner gear. Basically when the pump gets older, the clearances on the inner gear and the aluminum oil pump housing get bigger. This leads to an increased amount of oil seeping past the gear. This hole is to drain that excess oil pressure so it does not blow out the front main seal. This is one of the holes enlarged on modified oil pump to ensure the front main seal does not blow out, especially on a older used oil pump that has more oil seepage past the inner gear.
Here's the front side of the GE pump. Notice the groove that the front crankshaft main oil seal is deeper than the GTE(by about 1.5mm)
Here's the front side of the GTE pump. The depth of the seal is less than the GE pump. This could be a possible cause of why many of the Supra owners were having front seals pop out on the GTE while nobody(to my knowledge) with a GE has reported front main seal failure like on the GTE pumps.
The back of the GTE pump with the seal reinstalled to show where the seepage hole is. The inner pump gear rides on this groove in the pump housing. Any oil that makes it past the clearance between the gear and
housing will be drained via this hole.
Shot of the back of the GE pump with the seal reinstalled.
Conclusion: Some people say that the GTE pump is the best pump to run. Yes, this is true if you are going strictly from a flow standpoint, then yes the GTE is the more powerful pump. They even recommend running the GTE pump on a GE engine. My question: Is the GTE pump always the best way to go? On a GE, there aren't those extra oil passages and the pump may be in pressure bypass mode most of the time. Also, on the peoples that rev their cars to 8000rpm all the time, maybe it's not the best way to go. Engines don't need that much oil pressure to keep the bearings in check. On a GTE pump, when you really wind that sucker up in RPM's the oil pressure is sure to peg way past 100psi and the pump is in bypass. What if you run a GE pump on a GTE engine while spinning it at high rpm? Maybe the smaller pump will flow less, and thus the pump may not have to be in full out bypass mode.
Anyways, just something to think about. You have most of the facts here, please add in if you wish.
Discuss....
ProjectGS
Tech Article: 12/25/2011 (Yes, I was working on my car on Christmas
)Here are the two oil pumps side by side. From this view, they are nearly identical.
Some differences start to pop up. The top pump is the GE pump bottom is GTE. Notice that the GTE pump housing protrudes downwards a bit. The sealing surface where both pumps meet the upper oil pan are the exact same location and height.
A better view of the two pumps differences. The pump casing of the GTE pump is physically bigger.
Flipped over on the back. I also took the screws off the pump cover plate. Be careful when you do this, they are phillips screws and torqued down very tight. They are VERY VERY easy to strip or round off the heads. I had to use a impact gun with a good amount of pressure to ensure I did not round off any screw heads. Also, notice that the GTE pump has the extra oil relief bypass which the GE does not have.
Pump plate cover has been removed. Notice the differences in the pumps now? The GTE georotor gear assembly is noticeably bigger. This is because in the GTE engine, the oil pump has to feed the 6 piston cooling sprayers and feed the twin turbos. This is like creating 8 pretty good sized pressure drops in the lubrication system. The GTE pump is larger than the GE pump because the GE does not have to feed as many passages.
The pumps fully disassembled.
Close up of the GTE pump components.
Close up of the GE pump components.
Size comparison of the internal parts of the pumps.
GTE inner pump rotor diameter is 85mm
GE inner pump rotor diameter is 77mm
GTE outer pump rotor diameter is 108mm
GE outer pump rotor diameter is 91mm
This is a oil drain hole for the inner gear. Basically when the pump gets older, the clearances on the inner gear and the aluminum oil pump housing get bigger. This leads to an increased amount of oil seeping past the gear. This hole is to drain that excess oil pressure so it does not blow out the front main seal. This is one of the holes enlarged on modified oil pump to ensure the front main seal does not blow out, especially on a older used oil pump that has more oil seepage past the inner gear.
Here's the front side of the GE pump. Notice the groove that the front crankshaft main oil seal is deeper than the GTE(by about 1.5mm)
Here's the front side of the GTE pump. The depth of the seal is less than the GE pump. This could be a possible cause of why many of the Supra owners were having front seals pop out on the GTE while nobody(to my knowledge) with a GE has reported front main seal failure like on the GTE pumps.
The back of the GTE pump with the seal reinstalled to show where the seepage hole is. The inner pump gear rides on this groove in the pump housing. Any oil that makes it past the clearance between the gear and
housing will be drained via this hole.
Shot of the back of the GE pump with the seal reinstalled.
Conclusion: Some people say that the GTE pump is the best pump to run. Yes, this is true if you are going strictly from a flow standpoint, then yes the GTE is the more powerful pump. They even recommend running the GTE pump on a GE engine. My question: Is the GTE pump always the best way to go? On a GE, there aren't those extra oil passages and the pump may be in pressure bypass mode most of the time. Also, on the peoples that rev their cars to 8000rpm all the time, maybe it's not the best way to go. Engines don't need that much oil pressure to keep the bearings in check. On a GTE pump, when you really wind that sucker up in RPM's the oil pressure is sure to peg way past 100psi and the pump is in bypass. What if you run a GE pump on a GTE engine while spinning it at high rpm? Maybe the smaller pump will flow less, and thus the pump may not have to be in full out bypass mode.
Anyways, just something to think about. You have most of the facts here, please add in if you wish.
Discuss....
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