What oil should i use? Help please!!
10-03-11, 02:55 PM
#18
On my GM cars I use the Oil Life Monitor (oddly absent from the Lexus lineup), it monitors all conditions except oilside dirt/dust and has a very detailed algorithm for determing when the petroleum oil in it should be changed. It is NOT uncommon when you are driving mostly highway to see 7000 mile or more oil change intervals.
Oil Analysis is best, but often costs as much as an oil change, so I don't bother and just change it. The 3k oil changes are oil change shops gospel to keep a high level of repeat business. FEW people ever drive those extreme conditions. It simply is more oil to be dumped back into the environment. Synthetic and ext oil changes are the way to go, but unless you like paying $25 for a oil analysis that might tell you to change the oil (that costs around $25) you might as well go with exactly what Lexus says to do on oil changes.
On average dino oil 5-7k is good rule of thumb for MOST drivers who drive primarily >10 mile trips and don't sit in bumper to bumper traffic in 100F heat daily, and 8-15k on a real synthetic (not a refined petroleum oil CALLED synthetic that really isn't) is a very reasonable number.
If you see your oil turning dark, then changing it is a good idea. Dark oil isn't "dirt" it is burnt oil from the piston rings, if you put under a microscope you will see the small black soot particles in it. If you have a good enough filter you can make the oil turn clear again. High rpm/high load operation makes ring temps soar, so keep that in mind on oil changes. If you dog your car often, consider changing oil more often and use a higher grade of oil (synth or dino or use a higher weight oil if needed to match the temperatures you drive in). I never recommend a 5W30 for 60F temps and higher, it CAN do it, but a 10W30 does a much better job. A 30W does even better. But a 30W should never be used below 30F.
Again, default to what Lexus says in the owners manual. Always safe there.
Me? My cars/trucks all get Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W40. No messing around with car oils, they are weak and lack the anti wear (higher levels of ZDDP) additives that we need to have at the sacrifice of emissions. NEVER EVER use oil additives like Slick 50 or Duralube. Ask your local Lexus dealer if use of oil additives like that is covered under warranty. If not, there is a very good reason NOT to use it.
Oil Analysis is best, but often costs as much as an oil change, so I don't bother and just change it. The 3k oil changes are oil change shops gospel to keep a high level of repeat business. FEW people ever drive those extreme conditions. It simply is more oil to be dumped back into the environment. Synthetic and ext oil changes are the way to go, but unless you like paying $25 for a oil analysis that might tell you to change the oil (that costs around $25) you might as well go with exactly what Lexus says to do on oil changes.
On average dino oil 5-7k is good rule of thumb for MOST drivers who drive primarily >10 mile trips and don't sit in bumper to bumper traffic in 100F heat daily, and 8-15k on a real synthetic (not a refined petroleum oil CALLED synthetic that really isn't) is a very reasonable number.
If you see your oil turning dark, then changing it is a good idea. Dark oil isn't "dirt" it is burnt oil from the piston rings, if you put under a microscope you will see the small black soot particles in it. If you have a good enough filter you can make the oil turn clear again. High rpm/high load operation makes ring temps soar, so keep that in mind on oil changes. If you dog your car often, consider changing oil more often and use a higher grade of oil (synth or dino or use a higher weight oil if needed to match the temperatures you drive in). I never recommend a 5W30 for 60F temps and higher, it CAN do it, but a 10W30 does a much better job. A 30W does even better. But a 30W should never be used below 30F.
Again, default to what Lexus says in the owners manual. Always safe there.
Me? My cars/trucks all get Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W40. No messing around with car oils, they are weak and lack the anti wear (higher levels of ZDDP) additives that we need to have at the sacrifice of emissions. NEVER EVER use oil additives like Slick 50 or Duralube. Ask your local Lexus dealer if use of oil additives like that is covered under warranty. If not, there is a very good reason NOT to use it.
10-03-11, 07:55 PM
#20
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any fully synthetic oil and you will be ok, but if you really really want to have the best a lot of the Porsche Race teams i know SWEAR by Motul, but that comes with a nice little price tag with each oil change.
10-03-11, 08:10 PM
#21
But what oils ARE full synthetic now? Being the word Synthetic is a meaningless now thanks to one of the oil companies who wanted to sell dino oil under the synthetic name and got the courts to allow it. So the paying customers have no idea what they are buying.
I don't know much on Motul, I have heard of them, but no nothing. I have a big spreadsheet that a lot of info on oils, but no way have I found if the oil is a PAO or Group 3 or Group 4 oil. I think PAO's are full syn, but I don't remember now. Amsoil is all synthetic save the XL oils which are para-synthetic. I don't know what is "safe" to buy.
I don't know much on Motul, I have heard of them, but no nothing. I have a big spreadsheet that a lot of info on oils, but no way have I found if the oil is a PAO or Group 3 or Group 4 oil. I think PAO's are full syn, but I don't remember now. Amsoil is all synthetic save the XL oils which are para-synthetic. I don't know what is "safe" to buy.
10-03-11, 10:08 PM
#24
oil loss is an issue on the lower grade synthetics. M1 is ok, but far from the best. Some really swear by the German Castrol synthetic, can't say I have seen any data on it that shows me if they do much or not. All oils WILL lose some % of their volume over time. Dino oils lose more, sometimes as high as 25%. A really good synthetic will be in the 5% range. I have seen dino oils do better on that than some synthetics even.
10-04-11, 06:32 AM
#26
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i was told to try royal purple which i noticed a difference and its good for 10K miles, but its a little pricey at $10 a quart but was also told that mobil1 is just as good so idk its all personal preferance. GOOD LUCK!
10-04-11, 08:31 AM
#28
10W30, 5W30, 0W30, 30, are intended to have the same viscosity at 100C. The difference is at 0C, then the lower the first number makes it easier on the engine to crank and run and you get better fuel economy when cold.
So why have the others? Well, to make a 5W30 takes more additives and less actual oil than 10W30. Amsoil has a 30 weight that actually qualifies as a 10W30, but yet wasn't intended to be a 10W30. 0W30's are even thinner when at 0C. Many Amsoil oils have NO Viscosity Index Improvers. What is that? Same basic stuff that STP Oil Treatment is. It will make a lower grade oil a higher grade, say a 10W30 it will make it a 10W40. It would take chem analysis to know exactly how much. STP OT is good stuff. Add some and watch the oil pressure in your engine climb... it will, for tired engines, run 1-2 bottles of it.....
Take a quart of 10W30 and a quart of 5W30 and toss in freezer overnight, take them out and shake them or try to pour them out. One wll be much easier to pour (well, SHOULD BE!). I have a spreadsheet that has the viscosities at cold and hot temps (from the manf's websites) and it is very interesting how many oils are really sloppy when it comes to viscosity. What is a 5W30 in one brand might be closer to a 10W30 in another.
The actual oil, not the additives lube the engine. So the more addiitves needed to make the oil not foam and have the properties the engineers want, the worse of a product it ultimately ends up being.
Ideally if you live south where it is >30F, a straight 30 is probably the BEST lubricating oil. It is almost pure oil with very little added. But for us up north that isn't possible to run.
Should you run a 30, or a 40 or 50? All depends on the actual oil temps you see. If the engine is designed to run say at 250F oil temps and you are running 200F oil temps, the 30 weight oil might be a bit thick, but if you say go racing and get the oil temps upwards of 300-350, then the 30 weight isn't thick enough, you need 40 or 50. Hence why race teams especially on dragsters run 20W50 or even straight 50 or straight 60. The oil is sooo hot it becomes very thin.
With dino oils, oil temps over 250F start burning the oil at the rings (oil turning black), this is where a good synthetic comes in, they are often able to handle 400F (I have a lot of these numbers on my spreadsheet), so the synthetic will stay "cleaner" longer.
GM (Sorry boys and girls, I know GM very well) used to always run an oil cooler on the Corvette. It was needed because in a race situation (what the Vette was designed for) the oil temps would exceed XXX degrees, and it was required to have it to keep the dino oil from coking up and causing issues. But GM had issues in the winter time at the Vette plant in KY with cold starting damging engines, so they had to go with Mobil 1 (rememeber, lowest bidder who can keep up with GM's demands on qty and still meet a min spec, not saying they are the best by ANY measure!) to keep from problems when cold. What they found is oil temps became much lower and they were able to delete the oil cooler, which in itself is $ and also a source of warranty leaks. So going OEM factory fill with synthetic was a cost SAVINGS.
So running 5W30, vs 10W30 vs 0W30 vs xxxxx is not an easy question. If you drive sane, not racing, not getting the oil temps over what Toy designed (which we have no idea what those temps are), we don't really know other than what Toy intended as the proper weight oil. And being we don't measure oil temps (the Corvette did with the LT1 and was able to turn on fans on the engine radiator to help cool down the oil), we can't say what is NEEDED. We know that a 10W30 at 300F gets VERY thin, so if you are seeing high oil temps, run the next weight up, not a10W30, but a 10W40. But that brings in more additives. GM removed 20W50 and 10W40 from the oil chart in the 80's because of the additives causing stuck rings. It was needed to get rid of them for warranty issues. But people like the old oil they have always run in the 60's.
If you are going to the track or routinely abuse your car at high rpm for sustained time in hot climates, a synethic is a GOOD idea. If you don't, and drive sane as most people do, synthetic is probably a waste of $. Good insurance, and cheap insurance, so it isn't a bad thing, but reality is not everyone NEEDS it.
Just remember, a 10W30 synethic and a 10W30 dino oil at 300F has almost the identical molocule size, so it is just as thin. But the synthetics (real ones not the dino refined ones) have a much stronger film strength. So even though they are thin at those temps, the synthetics are stronger and still have more barrier to metal/metal contact, which is deadly to the engine.
As engines wear over time, it isn't a bad idea to go up in weight to make up for lost bearing clearances, so again, going from a 10W30 to a 10W40 is safe insurance on the high mileage engines. But I would look for a synethic instead of a dino oil for the reasons GM killed off 10W40.
Sorry for the long post! My engineering background does that....
So why have the others? Well, to make a 5W30 takes more additives and less actual oil than 10W30. Amsoil has a 30 weight that actually qualifies as a 10W30, but yet wasn't intended to be a 10W30. 0W30's are even thinner when at 0C. Many Amsoil oils have NO Viscosity Index Improvers. What is that? Same basic stuff that STP Oil Treatment is. It will make a lower grade oil a higher grade, say a 10W30 it will make it a 10W40. It would take chem analysis to know exactly how much. STP OT is good stuff. Add some and watch the oil pressure in your engine climb... it will, for tired engines, run 1-2 bottles of it.....
Take a quart of 10W30 and a quart of 5W30 and toss in freezer overnight, take them out and shake them or try to pour them out. One wll be much easier to pour (well, SHOULD BE!). I have a spreadsheet that has the viscosities at cold and hot temps (from the manf's websites) and it is very interesting how many oils are really sloppy when it comes to viscosity. What is a 5W30 in one brand might be closer to a 10W30 in another.
The actual oil, not the additives lube the engine. So the more addiitves needed to make the oil not foam and have the properties the engineers want, the worse of a product it ultimately ends up being.
Ideally if you live south where it is >30F, a straight 30 is probably the BEST lubricating oil. It is almost pure oil with very little added. But for us up north that isn't possible to run.
Should you run a 30, or a 40 or 50? All depends on the actual oil temps you see. If the engine is designed to run say at 250F oil temps and you are running 200F oil temps, the 30 weight oil might be a bit thick, but if you say go racing and get the oil temps upwards of 300-350, then the 30 weight isn't thick enough, you need 40 or 50. Hence why race teams especially on dragsters run 20W50 or even straight 50 or straight 60. The oil is sooo hot it becomes very thin.
With dino oils, oil temps over 250F start burning the oil at the rings (oil turning black), this is where a good synthetic comes in, they are often able to handle 400F (I have a lot of these numbers on my spreadsheet), so the synthetic will stay "cleaner" longer.
GM (Sorry boys and girls, I know GM very well) used to always run an oil cooler on the Corvette. It was needed because in a race situation (what the Vette was designed for) the oil temps would exceed XXX degrees, and it was required to have it to keep the dino oil from coking up and causing issues. But GM had issues in the winter time at the Vette plant in KY with cold starting damging engines, so they had to go with Mobil 1 (rememeber, lowest bidder who can keep up with GM's demands on qty and still meet a min spec, not saying they are the best by ANY measure!) to keep from problems when cold. What they found is oil temps became much lower and they were able to delete the oil cooler, which in itself is $ and also a source of warranty leaks. So going OEM factory fill with synthetic was a cost SAVINGS.
So running 5W30, vs 10W30 vs 0W30 vs xxxxx is not an easy question. If you drive sane, not racing, not getting the oil temps over what Toy designed (which we have no idea what those temps are), we don't really know other than what Toy intended as the proper weight oil. And being we don't measure oil temps (the Corvette did with the LT1 and was able to turn on fans on the engine radiator to help cool down the oil), we can't say what is NEEDED. We know that a 10W30 at 300F gets VERY thin, so if you are seeing high oil temps, run the next weight up, not a10W30, but a 10W40. But that brings in more additives. GM removed 20W50 and 10W40 from the oil chart in the 80's because of the additives causing stuck rings. It was needed to get rid of them for warranty issues. But people like the old oil they have always run in the 60's.
If you are going to the track or routinely abuse your car at high rpm for sustained time in hot climates, a synethic is a GOOD idea. If you don't, and drive sane as most people do, synthetic is probably a waste of $. Good insurance, and cheap insurance, so it isn't a bad thing, but reality is not everyone NEEDS it.
Just remember, a 10W30 synethic and a 10W30 dino oil at 300F has almost the identical molocule size, so it is just as thin. But the synthetics (real ones not the dino refined ones) have a much stronger film strength. So even though they are thin at those temps, the synthetics are stronger and still have more barrier to metal/metal contact, which is deadly to the engine.
As engines wear over time, it isn't a bad idea to go up in weight to make up for lost bearing clearances, so again, going from a 10W30 to a 10W40 is safe insurance on the high mileage engines. But I would look for a synethic instead of a dino oil for the reasons GM killed off 10W40.
Sorry for the long post! My engineering background does that....
10-04-11, 10:07 AM
#29
So, which brand of dino oil is better than fully synthetic oil, not synthetic blend.
oil loss is an issue on the lower grade synthetics. M1 is ok, but far from the best. Some really swear by the German Castrol synthetic, can't say I have seen any data on it that shows me if they do much or not. All oils WILL lose some % of their volume over time. Dino oils lose more, sometimes as high as 25%. A really good synthetic will be in the 5% range. I have seen dino oils do better on that than some synthetics even.
10-04-11, 08:06 PM
#30
10W30, 5W30, 0W30, 30, are intended to have the same viscosity at 100C. The difference is at 0C, then the lower the first number makes it easier on the engine to crank and run and you get better fuel economy when cold.
So why have the others? Well, to make a 5W30 takes more additives and less actual oil than 10W30. Amsoil has a 30 weight that actually qualifies as a 10W30, but yet wasn't intended to be a 10W30. 0W30's are even thinner when at 0C. Many Amsoil oils have NO Viscosity Index Improvers. What is that? Same basic stuff that STP Oil Treatment is. It will make a lower grade oil a higher grade, say a 10W30 it will make it a 10W40. It would take chem analysis to know exactly how much. STP OT is good stuff. Add some and watch the oil pressure in your engine climb... it will, for tired engines, run 1-2 bottles of it.....
Take a quart of 10W30 and a quart of 5W30 and toss in freezer overnight, take them out and shake them or try to pour them out. One wll be much easier to pour (well, SHOULD BE!). I have a spreadsheet that has the viscosities at cold and hot temps (from the manf's websites) and it is very interesting how many oils are really sloppy when it comes to viscosity. What is a 5W30 in one brand might be closer to a 10W30 in another.
The actual oil, not the additives lube the engine. So the more addiitves needed to make the oil not foam and have the properties the engineers want, the worse of a product it ultimately ends up being.
Ideally if you live south where it is >30F, a straight 30 is probably the BEST lubricating oil. It is almost pure oil with very little added. But for us up north that isn't possible to run.
Should you run a 30, or a 40 or 50? All depends on the actual oil temps you see. If the engine is designed to run say at 250F oil temps and you are running 200F oil temps, the 30 weight oil might be a bit thick, but if you say go racing and get the oil temps upwards of 300-350, then the 30 weight isn't thick enough, you need 40 or 50. Hence why race teams especially on dragsters run 20W50 or even straight 50 or straight 60. The oil is sooo hot it becomes very thin.
With dino oils, oil temps over 250F start burning the oil at the rings (oil turning black), this is where a good synthetic comes in, they are often able to handle 400F (I have a lot of these numbers on my spreadsheet), so the synthetic will stay "cleaner" longer.
GM (Sorry boys and girls, I know GM very well) used to always run an oil cooler on the Corvette. It was needed because in a race situation (what the Vette was designed for) the oil temps would exceed XXX degrees, and it was required to have it to keep the dino oil from coking up and causing issues. But GM had issues in the winter time at the Vette plant in KY with cold starting damging engines, so they had to go with Mobil 1 (rememeber, lowest bidder who can keep up with GM's demands on qty and still meet a min spec, not saying they are the best by ANY measure!) to keep from problems when cold. What they found is oil temps became much lower and they were able to delete the oil cooler, which in itself is $ and also a source of warranty leaks. So going OEM factory fill with synthetic was a cost SAVINGS.
So running 5W30, vs 10W30 vs 0W30 vs xxxxx is not an easy question. If you drive sane, not racing, not getting the oil temps over what Toy designed (which we have no idea what those temps are), we don't really know other than what Toy intended as the proper weight oil. And being we don't measure oil temps (the Corvette did with the LT1 and was able to turn on fans on the engine radiator to help cool down the oil), we can't say what is NEEDED. We know that a 10W30 at 300F gets VERY thin, so if you are seeing high oil temps, run the next weight up, not a10W30, but a 10W40. But that brings in more additives. GM removed 20W50 and 10W40 from the oil chart in the 80's because of the additives causing stuck rings. It was needed to get rid of them for warranty issues. But people like the old oil they have always run in the 60's.
If you are going to the track or routinely abuse your car at high rpm for sustained time in hot climates, a synethic is a GOOD idea. If you don't, and drive sane as most people do, synthetic is probably a waste of $. Good insurance, and cheap insurance, so it isn't a bad thing, but reality is not everyone NEEDS it.
Just remember, a 10W30 synethic and a 10W30 dino oil at 300F has almost the identical molocule size, so it is just as thin. But the synthetics (real ones not the dino refined ones) have a much stronger film strength. So even though they are thin at those temps, the synthetics are stronger and still have more barrier to metal/metal contact, which is deadly to the engine.
As engines wear over time, it isn't a bad idea to go up in weight to make up for lost bearing clearances, so again, going from a 10W30 to a 10W40 is safe insurance on the high mileage engines. But I would look for a synethic instead of a dino oil for the reasons GM killed off 10W40.
Sorry for the long post! My engineering background does that....
So why have the others? Well, to make a 5W30 takes more additives and less actual oil than 10W30. Amsoil has a 30 weight that actually qualifies as a 10W30, but yet wasn't intended to be a 10W30. 0W30's are even thinner when at 0C. Many Amsoil oils have NO Viscosity Index Improvers. What is that? Same basic stuff that STP Oil Treatment is. It will make a lower grade oil a higher grade, say a 10W30 it will make it a 10W40. It would take chem analysis to know exactly how much. STP OT is good stuff. Add some and watch the oil pressure in your engine climb... it will, for tired engines, run 1-2 bottles of it.....
Take a quart of 10W30 and a quart of 5W30 and toss in freezer overnight, take them out and shake them or try to pour them out. One wll be much easier to pour (well, SHOULD BE!). I have a spreadsheet that has the viscosities at cold and hot temps (from the manf's websites) and it is very interesting how many oils are really sloppy when it comes to viscosity. What is a 5W30 in one brand might be closer to a 10W30 in another.
The actual oil, not the additives lube the engine. So the more addiitves needed to make the oil not foam and have the properties the engineers want, the worse of a product it ultimately ends up being.
Ideally if you live south where it is >30F, a straight 30 is probably the BEST lubricating oil. It is almost pure oil with very little added. But for us up north that isn't possible to run.
Should you run a 30, or a 40 or 50? All depends on the actual oil temps you see. If the engine is designed to run say at 250F oil temps and you are running 200F oil temps, the 30 weight oil might be a bit thick, but if you say go racing and get the oil temps upwards of 300-350, then the 30 weight isn't thick enough, you need 40 or 50. Hence why race teams especially on dragsters run 20W50 or even straight 50 or straight 60. The oil is sooo hot it becomes very thin.
With dino oils, oil temps over 250F start burning the oil at the rings (oil turning black), this is where a good synthetic comes in, they are often able to handle 400F (I have a lot of these numbers on my spreadsheet), so the synthetic will stay "cleaner" longer.
GM (Sorry boys and girls, I know GM very well) used to always run an oil cooler on the Corvette. It was needed because in a race situation (what the Vette was designed for) the oil temps would exceed XXX degrees, and it was required to have it to keep the dino oil from coking up and causing issues. But GM had issues in the winter time at the Vette plant in KY with cold starting damging engines, so they had to go with Mobil 1 (rememeber, lowest bidder who can keep up with GM's demands on qty and still meet a min spec, not saying they are the best by ANY measure!) to keep from problems when cold. What they found is oil temps became much lower and they were able to delete the oil cooler, which in itself is $ and also a source of warranty leaks. So going OEM factory fill with synthetic was a cost SAVINGS.
So running 5W30, vs 10W30 vs 0W30 vs xxxxx is not an easy question. If you drive sane, not racing, not getting the oil temps over what Toy designed (which we have no idea what those temps are), we don't really know other than what Toy intended as the proper weight oil. And being we don't measure oil temps (the Corvette did with the LT1 and was able to turn on fans on the engine radiator to help cool down the oil), we can't say what is NEEDED. We know that a 10W30 at 300F gets VERY thin, so if you are seeing high oil temps, run the next weight up, not a10W30, but a 10W40. But that brings in more additives. GM removed 20W50 and 10W40 from the oil chart in the 80's because of the additives causing stuck rings. It was needed to get rid of them for warranty issues. But people like the old oil they have always run in the 60's.
If you are going to the track or routinely abuse your car at high rpm for sustained time in hot climates, a synethic is a GOOD idea. If you don't, and drive sane as most people do, synthetic is probably a waste of $. Good insurance, and cheap insurance, so it isn't a bad thing, but reality is not everyone NEEDS it.
Just remember, a 10W30 synethic and a 10W30 dino oil at 300F has almost the identical molocule size, so it is just as thin. But the synthetics (real ones not the dino refined ones) have a much stronger film strength. So even though they are thin at those temps, the synthetics are stronger and still have more barrier to metal/metal contact, which is deadly to the engine.
As engines wear over time, it isn't a bad idea to go up in weight to make up for lost bearing clearances, so again, going from a 10W30 to a 10W40 is safe insurance on the high mileage engines. But I would look for a synethic instead of a dino oil for the reasons GM killed off 10W40.
Sorry for the long post! My engineering background does that....
that's a lot of good info. i guess i will switch to 10w40 once my car hits 175k
tx!