AshyBone

Hey Guys, I've been looking into putting my 96 GS on some kind of air suspension. I'm just researching for now. My car is going to be my daily. I plan on swapping in a 3UZ mated to a r154. The car was originally GTE/160 Swapped but then they sold the engine and trans. I'm interested in air suspension because I want a soft ride, but at the same time, I plan on taking the car to the track and I don't want to be worried. If anything I'll probably just go with a mid-range adjustable coilover and just set it to one of the softest settings. I just wanted to know if anyone has any experience with air suspension and how it does in harsher driving conditions. I don't plan on doing anything crazy, I just think it would be nice and fitting for my Lexus.

Mandrake

I can understand why they sold the engine and trans, thats like a $10,000 combo. I'm doing a Nissan CD009 350Z 6 speed manual transmission swap myself and its more affordable but yet stronger than the R154. It costs a little more I'm sure because an adapter plate is required but thats not your question. As far as air suspension goes, I've never heard of these used for performance driving. Mostly they are used to adjust ride height for towing or just for lowering the car. You can get air cups that mount over the top of the shock and can give you a little extra clearance. They shorten the stroke of the suspension slightly of course. When you need to clear a speed bump etc, you just raise the car up and put it back down. That way you keep the full control and ride quality that the gas shocks provide while having some height adjustment. This kind of setup is very expensive though.

If you just want air bags, I've heard of issues with the rear tires wearing on the bags but I've never had one or been interested myself.

kene

iTrader: (2)

The owner of Platinum VIP has a 1st gen gs300 and he has air cups on coilovers (He created the PHANTOM SUSPENSION cup kit). His is unique in that is has the most lift/drop in a system, and he has figured a sweet spot from purely soft air ride to a firm setup (he has drifted it before) all at the push of a button.

Here is his website
http://platinumvipmotors.com/product...tomsuspension/
I believe depending on which coil-overs you go with, he will need to make a custom setup for the rear.

AshyBone

Thanks for the replies guys. I don't know if I was clear though. I'm not going to be going out of my way to get the Lexus sideways. It's going to be my daily. I want it to have a soft and comfortable ride unlike my sport cars. Only thing is, I want it to be able to handle anything that I throw at it. So I would want it to be able to drift, handle a track day, or cruise through the mountins if I wanted to. I don't want to have to worry about something breaking if I say screw it and go to an open track day but my other cars are under the knife. I just want it to handle spirited driving.

Side note, that Platinum vip motors GS is amazingly sexy.

kene

iTrader: (2)

I totally understand what you are seeking as far as your suspension goals. And to be honest platinum VIP's cup kit will do just that. Give him a call and speak to him about his ride. He has stated that it is 100% pure air comfort ride on the streets. And with adjustments of the coilover you can have it firm enough to drift.

But I believe you will have to send the coilover you choose to him as ever coilover is shaped differently. Ao he will have to make his air cup kit fit and match correctly. His air cup kit has the most travel of any on he market. If I had to guess i belive there was 4-5 inches of travel.

at least give him a call and see. Last i remember years ago the kit was around $2000 ish.

Mandrake

AshyBone I don't understand where the air suspension plays into this. You haven't said anything about adjusting ride height. A normal gas shock with coil spring will work for the requirements you've stated so far.

AshyBone

Kene - $2000 is just the kit by itself, or is it the kit with the coilover. I know Universal Air Suspension will sell me a completed set-up for $2026 or something like that. I just install the strut with the bag replacing the spring and I'm done.

Mandrake - I've been lead to believe that air suspension is more comfortable then the regular shock/strut and spring set up. I'm just trying to collect information. I want to do something different for my Lexus since my other cars are all going to be sitting on coilovers. As far as I know, there aren't really that many coilovers that that give a soft (luxury style) ride that can also give something that can handle a track or something as intense as drifting. On top of that, I live in New Mexico and the roads out here are complete ***. I'm not against coilovers for my GS, I'm just looking for something that will give me a soft and firm ride. Ride height isn't really my concern. Since the roads out here are such *** I'm not concerned with stance or being slammed. I honestly don't even like that look. But if you can recommend something that will give me a soft ride that's durable, I'll be more than happy to look into that.

Mandrake

AshyBone, air suspension isn't the most comfortable. That would be gas shocks. Bouncy and uncomfortable 'lowering kits' aren't really anything new. When you buy Taiwanese and Chinese coilovers like K-Sport, D2 or the countless other knock-off brands, you're just buying something that looks good and is cheap. Bilstein and Ohlins make good shocks. I had a Bilstein PSS9 coilover kit that was more comfortable than the stock suspension while also being more controlled. Ohlins makes DFV (dual flow valve) shocks that included fast bump valving. Its a second valve that opens up when you hit a big bump. It allows the shock to absorb the bump while still maintaining control. Even Koni sport shocks are quite good and can be custom valved. You want to look for shock dyno graphs and especially digressive valving.
http://elementalmotorsports.com/news/shock-valving

There's also the shock diameter to consider. Larger diameter shocks use low pressure gas and require less initial force to move. That means when you run over a crack, the tire might actually stay in contact with the pavement instead of bouncing off momentarily.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...rts-1-3-a.html

AshyBone

Ok, Gas shocks. So is there any type of gas shock that would be comfortable while still being able to give a sense of control? Or should I just get beefier sway bars to compensate? I want the car to be extremely comfortable, but at the same time, I want it to feel planted and stable.

Mandrake

If you get beefier sway bars, the ride gets more uncomfortable because you feel the bump in both wheels instead of just one. If it were a speed bump that both wheels hit at once, or a bridge seam, then having a beefier swaybar would ride softer than beefier springs (roughly speaking). In the real world however, usually potholes and bumps impact at different times. Its better to let the suspension be as independent as possible. If you could somehow drive on perfectly smooth pavement, you could get beefier swaybars but you're in NM. I'd leave them stock and only change them if you need to change the car's balance front to rear.

Tires are also going to be the decisive factor here. The right tire could make all the difference.

If you wanted the ride to handle better and be more comfortable than stock, you're going to need a better shock. Its going to come down to the shock to make that happen. All of the little things like chassis stiffening, bushings, alignment, tires, differentials, weight balance etc need to be in order as well. I really can't tell you what shock I'll be choosing because I haven't had time to do the research. If there is an Ohlins DFV or R&T option, I'll take that. I'm looking for the same kind of suspension that you are though. The only difference is my car is pure street and probably won't ever be taken to the track for any reason.

kene

iTrader: (2)

This is just my opinion, but if it is shocks you are now seeking then I would look at bilstein. The standard bilstein shock is the B6 but you may want to check and see if they offer B8 (HD) for the GS300.


Yes, you could use the bilstein supra shocks (others have done it) as pseudo coil-overs (google the "gixxer drew supra" thread), but there is more that will be involved and it will cost more as well.

DetAristo

Powered By Maxx, Fortune Auto both make air cups. Airbags are difficult to source (at least a bolt-on kit).

To stop the airbags from rubbing on the upper control arm, install an adjustable top hat.

AshyBone

In all honesty, I would just like a comfortable and soft ride that I don't have to worry about extreme body roll. I'd want the car to be able to handle sharp turns while feeling like I'm floating on air. I know Bilstein's are good, I have a custom set up for my eclipse. I might look into those. If I do a very soft Bilstein shock with stiffer springs, would that give me the comfort and control I'm looking for?

Mandrake

So you only want the ultimate car? lol Obviously you're not going to get that in a 20 year old car and I'm sure thats not your expectation.

You don't want a stiff spring with a soft shock. The shocks have to be matched to the spring rate as close as possible. If your shocks don't have enough dampening, it'll feel like a ketchup bottle effect when you hit bumps. If the shocks are too stiff, it'll just slam over bumps. What you're really looking for in comfort is control, not just softness. Its how it absorbs the bumps. Having a stiff chassis is part of that because it helps more of the shock get to the shock and not just distributed throughout the body. So no, you don't want a very soft shock with stiff springs. You'll be bouncing all over the place and it'll be very uncomfortable.

It sounds to me like you basically want to stick with stock spring rates but with a better shock.

Remember, higher spring rates don't reduce lateral weight transfer. A 1G turn on 1,200 lbs/in springs would put the same amount of weight on the outside tires as 400 lbs/in springs. You'd have a lot less body roll with the stiffer springs, but the weight transfer is the same.

How many G's your car can generate is only a function of how much grip your tires have. If you have the same tires and a higher spring rate, you aren't really going to increase your lateral G forces therefore. Keeping the tire flat on the ground is the job of the suspension and when its no longer making square contact with the pavement, yes you will lose traction. Reducing body roll is a part of that, but not so much in cars with double wishbone suspensions like the Aristo. Throughout the entire travel of the wheel, the tire should remain flat on the ground.

So what I'm saying is, stiffer springs don't necessarily help your car handle sharp turns. They just reduce body roll. If you got sticker tires, you would turn sharper. Its really this simple until we get into aerodynamics.

AshyBone

Yeah, I see you're point. Lets just say that I'd want the ride to be balanced, but the GS to be a bit softer then my other cars. Taking all that under consideration, I'm probably going to abandon the Air ride idea and just stick with coilovers. I'm looking at either the BR Series Coilovers from BC, or the Tein Comfort Sport Coilovers. I'm trying to find any reviews for either one of them so I have some actual data to go by.