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EDIT:
Oh ok, I see now. I was looking for a decent length, single pole style of pin/spanner wrench that would allow for more leverage when loosening the dust cap.
Thanks for your info Timjk.
MORE TO COME..
-Create a YOUTUBE channel that shows this shock revalve/rebuild process. - I might install 10Kg/mm spring on front shocks and review. -Decide which valve profile for the rear re-valve(front shock profile or "indirect success for the rear" profile [see earlier in thread]). -re-valve a set of spare shocks and install in rear. -purchase 8kg/mm springs for rear(swift vs BC), and install with shocks and review. -maybe* buy another shock dyno plot of finished, and fully gas charged revalve of rear shock
After some more "Daily Driver" evaluating, I think the 10Kg/mm spring will prove to be more comfortably suited for the Sport/daily driver combo for a heavy car like the GS300. The car weighs 3,860 lbs with a single 200lb driver.
I am making this statement, due to the fact that when I, my wife, and 2 kids go for a ride in the car, the ride is even more smoother with the excess weight. So much so that I now think the 14kg/mm spring selection should be a 70% track/ 30% street (average bumpy city street) choice. If the streets are smooth tarmac or nice flat pavement, then the 14kg/mm selection is my choice period. For the areas where I drive it is a 60% smooth, 40% bumpy mix.
I keep thinking about when the family is in the car and I feel this scenario is probably the same as if the car had 10 or 12kg/mm springs with only me as the driver in the car (I weigh more than 200lbs btw).
Technically, if you look at the math sketch below this will give you some insight into this thought process on the matter....
NATURAL FREQUENCY DIFFERENCE: Single driver weight vs Family weight
The Natural Frequency calculations were done by the front left (driver side) weight specs on a 14kg/mm spring..
With the single Driver (14kg/m spring), the natural frequency is 1.62Hz.
With the total weight of the Family (14kg/m spring), the natural frequency is 1.55Hz.
NATURAL FREQUENCY CHANGE: Single driver on 12kg/mm spring
The Natural Frequency calculations were done by the front left (driver side) weight specs on a 12kg/m spring.
With the single Driver on 12kg/mm springs, the natural frequency is 1.50Hz.
So,
CURRENT SETUP:____________14kg/mm with Driver only = 1.62Hz
CALCULATED SETUP:_________12kg/mm with Driver only = 1.50Hz
DESIRED SETUP(feels good):___14kg/mm w/ total Family = 1.55Hz
So, if as a solo driver, wanted the car to have the same road feeling as riding with the family, a change to a 13kg/mm spring (between 14kg and 12kg) would most likely give me the feel that I have been thinking about.
I am still going to pursue a change to 10kg/mm springs, but I thought there may have been some out there, who have driven with a fully loaded car and liked the feel, but were unsure how or why the change in road feeling occurred.
Basically the more weight that is added to an existing suspension, the natural frequency becomes lower. And to contrast, the more weight you remove from this system, the higher the natural frequency will go.
Keep in mind that this observation was done without changing the bleed/ adjustable kno_b. at all (set at +12 clicks going from softest setting toward hard).
Springs changed from 14kg/mm swift spring to 10kg/mm swift spring. Short body shocks were revalved to "2nd revalve" shim specs, and were nitrogen charged and verified to 150 psi. This was installed on the frint of the car. Adjustment **** has been set at 16 clicks from the softest setting toward the hardest. Ride has gone up significantly in comfort area, while only loosing a little in body roll. Only 20 minutes of ride time and so far I am happy with the change considering I drive on mostly "somewhat acceptable" street terrain.
Review of 10kg spring soon.
It seems as though I am now post/character limited, so I will have to forfeit the detailed review of the 14kg/m spring (at 22, 12, and 8 click settings), and post a brief 1 paragraph review of the 10kg/mm springs ride.
sorry guys & gals. I'm not sure, but I guess the forums powers that be are indirectly declaring this thread come to an end.
Ok, I have been on the 10kg springs (front) and a 6kg springs (rear) for a while, and I can definitely say that this combo is a 40% sport / 60% comfort setup. It rides great also, but the instant turn in response from the front is tamed by about 60% when compared to the 14kg springs in front. The 10kg front is still far better than stock.
With these springs I had the front set at 17 clicks from softest to hard, and the rear set at 21 clicks from soft to hard setting.
I equate the ride to that of a luxury car that is retains "some" sportiness. If I had to guess, I would say maybe a BMW 5 series (granted, I have never driven this car, this is purely based off of media presentation).
And the 14kg front(17 clicks softest to hard), and 6kg rear(25 clicks softest to hard) I am guessing it is closer to the BMW M5-series level of sportiness (not taking about the engine). I have not driven this car either, this is purely based off of media presentation.
And this is without an upgraded adjustable rear Titan supra swaybar. Once you do that I know it will be "Game Over"... you will love the handling.
I regrettably just sold my front and rear Titan Adjustable Supra swaybars before trying them out. I plan to buy another set and install the rear this time.
Also, I had tried the BC racing 10kg spring in the rear with both a 14kg-front , and later a 10kg-front spring, and in both instances there was still too much jump in the rear of the car with a hard "buck" at every bump. It did not feel good at all. Granted, I could have re-shimmed the shock valving again to accommodate, but I did not have the time or patience. My wife even said the car drives nice with everything else, but the back is way too stiff/bumpy. So for me, in the rear the 12kg (~2.2Hz natural freq in rear), and 10kg(~2.0Hz natural fequency in rear) springs are definitely not going to be used. I did not try the 8kg spring in the rear (~1.75Hz natural frequency in rear), and as said before I settled on the 6kg(~1.52Hz natural frequency in rear) because it was comfortable, and with a few clicks toward hard, it will provide more damping force for control.
Here is a comparison of swift spring vs megan/BC racing spring on a spring compression tester. This is why I keep hearing that the swift spring upgrade on coilovers is more pleasant to drive on. The swift springs maintain their spring rate consistently. Whereas the other springs will increase in spring rate as the spring is compressed (up to ~150lbs extra in some cases!) and also introduce coil binding into your suspension as well.... http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...gs-dynoed.html
So Front(14kg) is 1.64Hz, and Rear(6kg) is 1.54Hz. It doesn't necessarily meet the "Flat Ride" recommendations, but It feels darn good. If I had tried the 8kg spring in the rear then I would be in line with the "Flat Ride" philosophy. I for one believe in it, but I guess there are certain cars that may be able to get away from this philosophy. It may be due to front/rear weight bias (GS300 is 54%-Front, and 46%-Rear), but also I think how far forward or back the seats are located in the vehicle. I believe this can "add to" or "detract from" the "pitching/kickback" effects due to "no flat ride" spring settings.
If the seat is too far forward and closer to the front wheels, the less the "Pitch feel" will be when going over bumps without flat ride settings.
If the seat is too far backward and farther from the front wheels, the more the "Pitch feel" will be when going over bumps without flat ride settings.
Its like taking a kids teeter-totter, and sitting far from the fulcrum center, and having someone sit on the opposite end. Then repeating this again, but this time you would sit as close to the fulcrum center as possible. In the latter case, the lifting effect would not be as prominent for you.
Granted, these are just my thoughts. I have not proven this theory...
Keep in mind that all of this spring discussion is on the 2nd re-valved shock shim arrangement. All 4 shocks.
Anyhow, Now I just need to figure out what methods or how to convey this handling in a video so you guys can better see what I am talking about.
One last thing that has been on my mind (should have put at beginning). This is the visual difference between a Linear piston and a Digressive piston. Please see image below. The red and blue lines on top of the piston are shims.
Take a look at this Penske Linear/Digressive piston. One side is the flat (linear), and the other side is cup shaped (digressive). So the user can have a digressive compression side, and a linear rebound side. Or vice versa.
Visual illustration of a Linear shaped piston compared against a Digressive Piston.
If there is interest, I can explain a bit further exactly why a digressive piston/shims acts "digressive" and a linear piston/shims acts "linear" from a stress/strain standpoint . Feel free to ask. Otherwise, enjoy.
UPDATE: I am still in love with the handling of the suspension setup. I am on the stock swaybars, so in the rear when driving long road turns at speeds excess +85 mph if I hit any medium sized road bumps on one side, it causes a slight "sway" from that tire's side. Nothing horrible at all, just something I have to keep in mind when driving. In my opinion, it is a distinct sign that the rear right and rear left are still somewhat independent of each other even the firmer suspension and the stock rear sway bar.
I believe both sides of the rear end need to be further "linked" and more in "unison" with each other. Basically I think I need a stiffer rear swaybar. One that is more resistant to flex. The stock swaybar will do fine for most drivers in my opinion, but for me I have to keep reaching for the next level.
I unfortunately sold my previous Titan motorsports adjustable rear swaybar(still kicking myself for doing this), so I will purchase a new one hopefully soon. There's a long list of other things I have been waiting to do to this car for the longest time. Soon enough these things will come to pass.
I am also curious to try upgrading the shock oil weight to 15w to see the results.
Still contemplating if a full scale mathematics/ start-finish youtube video is still necessary considering all the info and steps are here.
EDIT 3/1/2016: This thought just came to me, but I think that intermittent slight "bump-sway" at speeds +85mph is mainly due to the tires' tall height and soft sidewall. Or tire pressure is lower then usual (personally prefer ~42psi) When I get a chance later on I will post my tires size.
GREAT thread man! You did some SERIOUS research and posted all of it (including the videos). I did a rebuild of my Ohlins dampers for my car some 8 years ago, I wish I'd have had a resource like this available back then. I've been reading and will continue to read and learn. Thanks again man!
Edit: Kene, I tried to PM you but I don't have enough posts to allow me to PM you.. perhaps you can PM me?
G20Budo, are you saying you have Ohlins for the 1st Gen GS300? I didn't know they made them for this car.
Sorry Mandrake that I wasn't clear. I have a 96' Infiniti G20 (re-badged Nissan Primera from Japan/Europe) with a suspension put together by a company called Cazzeria in Japan. The use Ohlins components to build their suspensions. Kene's thread here is VERY helpful. I had never considered revalving my dampers until I read this thread.. so HUGE thanks to Kene for all his efforts, AND for documenting it all!
07-15-15, 07:06 AM
