don1

So we had about 6 inches of snow this morning and I went for a drive after the rush hour traffic subsided. I stopped at this park for a photo op.

I found that on snowy roads starting from a stop was easier if I used the S2 gear instead of D. But rather than manually shifting I then changed to Drive. This helped to limit wheel spin. I'm wondering how other hybrid drivers drive on slippery roads.

First real snowfall of the season. About a month early. by Don Cassel, on Flickr

chromedome

I've seen the traction control light activate when taking off on cold rainy days at around 10C. No snow here yet. I think all that torque from the electric motor makes the tires slip easily on slippery surfaces.

SLH

It is very easy to lose traction from a standing start in these cars, even on dry pavement. Electric motors have extremely high torque at zero RPM. Excessive torque is what causes the loss of traction.

The torque of an electric motor is just the power divided by the rpm. It falls rapidly as the rpms increase, according to the formula:
Torque (T) = ((HP(horsepower) / RPM (rotations per minute))) * C (constant)

HP is just the watts divided by a constant (1HP = 746 watts), and is determined by the throttle setting. So, for constant power (throttle), the torque is infinite at zero RPM, and falls very rapidly as RPM increases.

That's for an "ideal" motor, of course. Real motors don't actually have infinite torque. They just have extremely high torque.

To start on very slick road, such as snow, the trick is to avoid too much torque. One way to do that is to let the car creep forward, with minimum throttle (power) until after you get some rpms. Another is to use a lower gear, which uses higher rpms to obtain the same speed.

JT4

Thats a great pic...

chromedome

On a side note, I wonder if anyone's put the ES300h or Avalon Hybrid on a dyno. The torque curve could be a nice flat plateau. I find the in-gear acceleration to be loads of fun when the battery's fully charged.

LexBob2

I would think the hybrid would have a nice flat torque curve due to the electric motors. As we know, it is the fuel efficiency champ of the ES line but the ES350 is the performance model.

In a side by side comparison test in Consumer Reports, the 300h did 0-60 in 8.2 seconds and the 350 was 6.7 seconds. In the 45 to 65 mph test, it was 5.2 sec vs. 4.2 sec.

The choice is good. I'd be hard pressed to decide between the two.

bc6152

Looks like a Lexus advertisement... White car in the snow, very nice photo...

lesz

Whenever I've seen commercials for vehicles, often SUVs, dashing through the snow, it has always struck me that, even after doing so, those vehicles look like they have just been washed and detailed. Yet, all I have to do is to drive a hundred yards in the snow, and my vehicles have a generous dose of salt covering them.

LexBob2

I notice that all of the time too. When I point it out to my wife, she gives me a "whatever" look.

don1

Ain't that the truth. Interestingly my car was actually quite dirty at the time but with the white color and lack of contrast because of the reflection from the snow the dirt was not that visible in the photo. I had to drive maybe 5 miles in snow and slush to get to the location where the photo was taken.

SLH

It probably is because those vehicles _were_ washed and detailed, just before they captured the images for the video-animation software. The snow in the commercial isn't real, either. It just wouldn't do to have streaks of black soot all over the nice pretty white snow. And the falling snow flakes must be beside and behind the car, but not in front of it...

They can do amazing things with animation, these days.

chromedome

I headed up to the mountains and no snow, but cold temps around 5C with roads wet from the rain. In Sport mode, mashing the throttle in a corner makes the car slip and slide everywhere and the traction control works overtime. It's not as nice as a proper RWD drift but it's still mad hooning fun The electric motor torque in normal and sport modes easily makes the front tires spin on slippery roads, let alone on snowy ones.

wowzer

How do you all find the ES300h and its performance in the snow? Given all the white stuff lately, I am curious about driving while it is snowing, as well as getting stuck in the snow.

Tx

wowzer

Please ignore...I forgot to STF first. My bad.


Mods, please delete this thread? Tx

SAKaufman

My Lexus is handling poorly in winter >50 MPH. It wanders and weaves in the lane without driver input. Dealer and Kal Tire store tried to diagnose and couldn't replicate. Fresh 4 wheel alignment didn't improve this. Has anyone else had a problem like this?